What would I love to see in the SK design? (Dropbox link for collection of illustrated ideas)More Choices. SK Customisation and Essence.
Currently the SK has one variable– difficulty. That's not much of a choice.
Essence has equally little choice. You aren't deciding between city enchantments and unit enchantments (or other uses for mana) because of the lack of upkeep. You aren't choosing between 5x Enchanted hammers, because you just fill up the slots when you can, without having to think. Essence is just a tile yield, with no significant impact on play-style or replayability.
To me, it's all about choices.
Choices are a massive source of fun in any activity, there is a theory that maximising future options (choices) is the driving force behind all intelligence. Choices are smart. Intelligence is forged in the fire of choice. It is a trope, a cliché, an undead horse or a universal truth. Choices are fun... I want more choices. But what exactly do I think is missing?
Sometimes words aren't enough, so here are a couple of very quick and rough mock-ups to show you.
Essence, (integrated into the game):
Sorcerer King customisation, (also integrated into the game):
Now for the words. It's a little long, if you do read it then thank you. If not, don't worry, the pictures say most of it.
The Sorcerer King
So, a game of Elemental (FE, LH) has reached its conclusion. The big bad won by diplomacy and military might... or whatever. His sphere of influence covers most of the map and his enemies are mostly defeated. You, in your tiny little empire with its solitary city hoped to win via research and magic. The forge was your plan and it only half worked.
So, that's the start. With that in mind, how much sense does it make for the SK to be following your magic-research plan (shards and mastery) when he's already won a dominion victory via his powerful cities, troops and trusty heroes? Not much sense .
Talking of sense, who would ally with the guy killing the hostages shards. How much more sense would it make for you to be following his plan in the game? Lots. You're desperate, without any other hope for victory, willing to strike at the SK's magical power to finally unseat him from his thorny throne.
How differently would this reversal in game design play? What changes would need to be made?
Surprisingly few changes for massive differences in game-flow and a multiplication of the replayability of the game. (Even just 2x SK starts and strategies means 2x the number of games you're likely to play before you tire of the game.)
I'm borrowing from the old game Ogre Battle. It has the most beautifully thematic introduction, an old man asking questions... with each question subtly changing the start. Here's a mock up of that + A SK book for an example of showing it through pictures (I'd like each icon to be clickable, with the text attached to it to be added to a growing passage, you writing the history of the game before starting.)
Thematic SK Customisation example:
“The world is at the edge of utter ruin. The wars of old are almost all over. Few opponents remain to challenge the Sorcerer King in his quest for ultimate power. He came to power slowly, few realised the extent of his true ambitions but he has played his hand. His true intentions are revealed. He intends to rule the world for all of time by...”
Destroying the magical shards, capturing the essence they contain to allow him to cast the spell of mastery. (default game)
Destroying all who would oppose him. His armies marching on all free peoples until his dominion is absolute and unquestioned. (SK guards shards)
Uniting the races against his few remaining enemies. His influence and guile the stuff of legend, the strength of his will and charm turning all into puppets dancing to his grisly tune. (SK allies with neutrals faster, they guard the shards)
Turning the land to ash, his undead hordes spilling forth to end all life.
Bringing beauty as terrible as the dawn to unmake all those considered tainted, evil or impure.
Personally I'd like the for the description of the SK to update with each you click (allowing for lots of combinations). e.g.
Selecting 1 + 4 would read:
“He intends to rule the world for all of time by...
...Destroying the magical shards, capturing the essence they contain to allow him to cast the spell of mastery. [While] turning the land to ash, his undead hordes spilling forth to end all life.”
With any incompatible options dropping from the choices as you select them. e.g. Selecting 4 would grey out 5. Expansions could increase the number of options without limit, giving a host of replay options all while being extremely thematic in presentation.
Also further questions could be posed to set the normal game lobby options. e.g. magic – 'gradual', 'normal' or 'supreme' could be shown with three different shard icons with thematic text (and contextual tooltips with the nitty-gritty details).
It's pretty as is, but if you start adding more options then it becomes less and less like a story and more like you're changing a car tyre. Checking each valve, drop-down box and whatnot. This way the settings become a beautiful flowing history that you write at the start.
Other choices. Shards!
Playing against a SK not trying to destroy them, you'd still be trying to capture them, as currently. But once captured you'd have the ability to destroy them (to gain some major reward, like... essence!) while also increasing the doom counter... (using the existing mechanics, so no work there) and also severely hurting your reputation with other races. The SK would need to be able to defend shards. (work needed there). You'd also need some choices for how to spend/use your essence (work needed).
This is as much a major mechanical overhaul as it is a big thematic shift. So, why do I think it'd be worthwhile to add? (I stress, not to replace but add to the scope of the game, drawing on things already present in other Elemental games)
For a start, it's just more choices:
Ignore, Capture or Destroy.
If they aren't going to die then there are more shards on every map (good), you could ignore them... (bad) but what's the SK doing with them? If you ignore them will he be stronger in the final fight? e.g. Fire shard = flaming swords on his troops. 5 x Fire shards = fireballs and elementals in the final fight. + more mana for him to cast spells in battle and overland.
So, which to ignore and which shards to capture? And when?
Capturing a shard should trigger some response. It should have some cost. But if the response only occurred after you defeat the defenders, then you can choose when and how to capture them. Ignoring weaker shards, or picking only the fire shards/etc as targets. Scouting becomes key, discovering where the shards are and how they are being used. Preparing before you trigger a wave... much like in any Tower defence game.
Why is the SK destroying them? (Essence?) Why don't you?
Existing mechanics give you magic for holding a shard. What if you had the choice to destroy the shard to gain Essence? It's a unique mechanic in the genre that exists only in the elemental lore. It is a waste to see it relegated to a tile yield. Maintenance costs for spells should be more than enough to stop you spamming city-buffs and unit buffs, it also restricts your gameplay. Cutting down your options... if you have a free essence slot the only option is to cast your best spell. If they cost maintenance you're trading magic per turn for city power.
Anyway, I'll come on to the reborn essence later. But why tactically would you destroy a shard?
Maybe it's too close to the enemy, too powerful to let fall back into his hands. Perhaps you have plans for that essence and need it to ensure victory. Maybe you'll only sacrifice shards before the final push on the SK, making the last battle the fight to end all fights. Once you start sacrificing shards there can be no going back... the mana income is gone and the doom counter is higher. If you lose the fight you can't just wait 20 turns and try again, you'll be hit with massive waves while your mana income is dead. You'll be overrun.
Essence choices!
Currently with research and skills the choices are soft choices (or no real choice at all...) by that I mean you can choose everything with enough time, or there is only one choice. You can gain (in one game) all the spells you need, unlock all the skills and abilities you want.. maybe even all that are available. Ditto with buildings, none are locked-off by your choices (unlike with city specialisation where one path locks-off another).
There are very few tough, hard choices where one thing is sacrificed in favour of another.
Essence could change that.
What if you have 1 essence for each destroyed shard? To be used in a limited and extremely powerful way?
You could empower units, summon dragons, revive the land, curse the enemy or bless cities.
...How is that different to a spell currently? It would allow for very limited use 'ultimate' spells. These could revive entire regions for founding new cities, turn a peasant into a hero, wipe a city off the map or maybe temporarily charm the SK's lieutenants... things that would be terrifyingly overpowered if they were standard spells, even expensive ones.
What further choices would the above add? How would the pace of the game be affected?
You could wait, not capture shards and keep the SK's attention on other things.You could capture shards to weaken the SK. Turtle up slowly and attack with a standard army.You could capture shards, sacrifice them and use the essence to attack with an empowered army.You could raid the SK, not holding shards but sacrificing them to boost your powers, but face tough battles much sooner for a shorter and more brutal game.
The early game would be more lenient. The difference between an almost RTS level of rushing clickfest to a more tactical, thoughtful choice of pace. Some people would win in an hour, some on the same map with the same settings could take 10, carefully taking and holding each shard before eating them all the turn before a cataclysmic battle – where all the neutral factions not befriended fighting beside the SK against your monstrous assault.
Anyway, that's enough for now. I just thought I'd share my morning's brainstorming. I know this game has potential and I have hope it will reach it. This is just my way of trying to explain, offer you a glimpse of what I see missing... some (hopefully) constructive criticism for once. I feel like I see the silhouette of the dream already in the game... but it's just a shadow of what it could be with lots of little changes and a few really really big ones. I don't hate the game, or the Devs... far from it. I'm just painfully aware of how small the scope has become, how much art and lore and mechanics already exist but aren't being used to their full potential.
Thank you for reading. If there's any interest I could always do more suggestions... afflictions, pictographs, item crafting... I have a very long list. It's all in my head and I type very quickly, so it's not much trouble. I welcome your criticism, your support of the game's current mechanics/UI. Feel free to chat about what else you want in the game. What would you love the game to have by release day or in some potential expansion?
+ 1 for mentioning Ogre Battle
Some interesting ideas here - I like the idea of Sk's main strategy varying from game to game.
Thanks davrovana, I loved Ogre Battle... I remember playing it as a child then telling my mum proudly I'd been playing "Orgy battle". She had a puzzled look, merely listened as I went on to explain a game that differed quite dramatically from my misread title.
Anyway... on to:
Crafting
The crafting screen is currently a shop in all but name. You have ready-made items for sale, the currency is a barter system and more items open up when you build a better market-type buildings like jewellers.
But True Crafting, (to deserve the name, the unnecessary emphasis and capitalisation) requires user input and choice. You have to design the item in question (mechanically if not artistically, though some different pre-make icons would be nice). After choosing its properties crafting should take resources (it does), magic (sometimes it does already) and above all time to forge (currently instant).
By calling the current system crafting, rather than 'shop' it suggests the job is done. It isn't. It is a shop, you are buying (instantly) swords or potions. If you were crafting a potion, that would involve choices – a big potion or a small one, strong or weak. With costs and effects modified by your casting skill... erm... Sovereign skills like 'Herbal mastery' as well as your research and spell books.
Crafting in Master of Magic:http://masterofmagic.wikia.com/wiki/Item_Crafting
Why not borrow from the old girl, but with the added element of rare resources rather than mana to limit the OP effects and spice things up?
So a sword enchanted for accuracy and vampiric
May cost resources like oil (for the sword), mana (for the accuracy enchantment) and a powerful treasure, or essence if you can't find the required item (for life-steal).
Potion crafting
I've played the free game Path of Exile recently. Going back to potions being quaffed by the dozen feels dirty. In that game a potion is much rarer, and refills in safe locations. You don't carry as many, and you need to go back to a city to refill so you can still run-out quite easily. I love that mechanic. I really, really love it. It makes potions into a regular part of your combat, no longer one-use wonders but a back-up that you can always rely on and are encouraged to use more freely.
In SK, it would make crafting potions a very lucrative option, as a re-fillable limited-use item has massive tactical potential. Even if refilling required visiting a city, or cost mana, it would free up your sovereigns limited casts in battle and give you more flexibility.
I just watched Sid Mierer's interview at Firaxicon where he talked about game designers must be able to listen to negative feedback if their game is not fun. I've been trying to come up with a polite, nice way to tell Brad that SK is not fun. You hit on one of the aspects: crafting. It isn't crafting... it's shopping. LH is totally fun. SK is not fun. Of course, we were all really enamored at first with the simplicity of the graphics, the crafting system, the MOM spell research model, more unique abilities for heroes and units, new monsters, etc., but the game is painfully boring in its current state. I know I need to wait until we get more of the content and gameplay implemented in future beta drops so I'll wait patiently, but I fear this game is shaping up more like a non-buggy version of EWOM.
I enjoyed reading this a lot.
I do think it's way too early to make any judgements on "fun" or not but I will say that I do like the crafting suggestions given along with a lot of the other suggestions here.
Thanks Frogboy, it means a lot to know you're reading the suggestions, acknowledging them and considering some. As long as some things aren't completely set in stone just yet then I have hope that this game could still be a modern classic. Ogre Battle is a closer match than MoM to SK IMO.
I can do more mock-ups if they're helpful... I think walls of text sometimes lose the key points or inaccurately portray issues. All the confusion back when I mentioned pass deleting moves... I was just comparing the functionality to Civ. Most of my suggestions are just comparisons with old games which I have played for far too long instead of working. My words only seem clear to me because I don't really have to think to picture it. It's frustrating not getting the points across in a way that is either palatable or helpful.
If you haven't played Ogre Battle... if a picture pains a thousand words this video should be even better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UNpZLXZl2w
(It's not my video, just the result of a quick search)
It's still an engaging masterpiece. I suggest you have a look for a rom or on ebay for it if you have the time, it's well worth playing yourself. It was beautifully done and has a lot of features shared with SK that could serve as inspiration. I borrowed the start straight from it, you're asked lots of hypothetical questions like "A messenger from god appears to you. What form does the messenger take?” With each of the answers shaping your starting army and stats to give you a personalised feel to the game.
For a more complete feature comparison with SK/Elemental it has:
A Cloth map, little statue figures, short tactical battles where positioning is key, magic (tarot cards), lots of units, items (magic to kill undead), quests (to recruit heroes and get items) and solid writing... but it also has a few more gems hidden away.
My favourite features in Ogre Battle I'd love in SK
Units paths.
All units can level-up and upgrade based on their stats and charisma/alignment down different paths.
So a soldier with a rotten heart can never amount to much, but one who is almost rotten can be a dark mage, one with a pure heart can become a knight. Ditto for each base class. Also you can downgrade... but may not be able to change back if you no longer meet the requirements.
A mock up in SK. Two new attributes with you standard units gaining existing skills to advance down certain paths. The first skill here being the choice... advance now or wait until my unit has earned some... reputation/charisma/alignment/honour... the choice is more important than the details.
Reputation,
A measure of your leader that presents a player choice to be good or evil. Killing the weak for experience makes you more evil (lowers the victorious unit's alignment). Losing cities lowers global reputation, gaining cities increases it. Events can modify it (tarot cards drawn). Fighting superior foes or the undead makes you good (based on relative alignment, so it's hard to be really good unless you fight extremely hard battles). A beautifully considered mechanic IMO, one that gently encourages different playstyles without forcing you down one path.
I can picture each overwhelming victory in SK giving you ruthless points for the victors and your leader (as a unit stat and global resource respectively), each victory against an enemy with a higher combat strength giving you honour. With all the potential ramifications that implies.
As promised, a mock-up of both situations.
Terrain,
Squad movement type was based on the sum of the units inside. Having a flier allowed the unit to fly (low or high), having mermen/octopuses allowed it to move faster over water, giants for mountains etc. Encouraging careful mixing of units, hard choices and interesting tactics.
You send armies to liberate cities, learning the story of the game from each town... finding hidden treasures, defending against waves of enemies while trying to hold the towns/churches and push the enemy back to their castle. Time is a factor – you get money from each town, each unit you use costs upkeep, you have your reputation to consider at all times so you have to choose between a slow, methodical, ruthless and evil reputation or a fast, heroic, risky but good reputation (and more recruitment options).
Also squads are limited to 5 units, large units count as 2, terrain affects movement speed so having a griffon with you lets you fly (but it's big). Add ghosts and you fly low (but they die to clerics), Mermen and you move faster at sea but not on land etc. The art was simple but smooth and it had simple but uplifting music.
Lots there to borrow from. I can probably fire it up and post some side-by-side comparisons with how it could look in SK to borrow some features. Just a thought.
Mock-up in SK:
Also here I've shown something I love with interface elements: If something's meant to be big, make it stick out a bit. Just a tiny bit and suddenly that wyvern looks amazing, whatever the resolution. You know it's big, it looks too big to fit. Also it's taking up 2 slots... that should be clear and give you some logistical choices. Do I take a wyvern or two soldiers and move more slowly?
Anyway, that's all for now... off to play Civ: Beyond Earth... actually it's later than I thought. Bath, then Civ.
If you ever questioned my passion for Elemental/SK consider this - on the release day of Beyond Earth I've been editing together mock-ups... that's got to be worth a few points of 'honour'... perhaps also a few points of 'stupidity' too... but who's counting?
Actually one more:
An example of the pictographs for unit stats. I'd suggest one icon per 20% or 5 points (since the numbers are usually quite high in SK).
Anything well above the normal range could spill over, above and generally out of the box... much like the above wyvern (to represent that this is one awesome dude). I didn't bother to replace every stat... but you get the idea.
I can definitively say we're going to revisit the crafting system because of the feedback you've given.
The one area I'm not sold on is the idea of choosing different SK's to play against. I feel it's more enjoyable having different sovereigns (i mean, obviously, it would be great to have both but if you can only budget one option, I'd rather have different sovereigns).
Each sovereign is pretty massively different.
Rejiggering the crafting system is fine.
Having very different sovereigns is excellent.
Different SKs I can live without. Different Lootenants, certainly though.
I worry that having different let's would make it harder to know who they are.
Btw, another good post by frank. some pretty compelling ideas.
I'd guess that their size (way bigger than anything else) sets them apart, assuming any additionals would also be godzilla size. Throw in something interesting like a Quendar channeler as an LT and that very well could be an issue.
While I'd love to see the LTs drawn from a list of 4 rather than 2, I think you'll get more mileage out of finding their best challenge level than you will having more and varied LTs.
(PS, are the Quendar going to appear in SK at all? I am curious to see how they appear in this new art style, if you make them still like lizard/dragon men or anthropomorphize them back to a more corrupted elf look.)
Thanks for the feedback-feedback. It sounds like I still have a case to make for both SK and lieutenants being important... I'll think on it. For now here's my quick gut response (no pictures, sadly, don't have time):
I still think diverse and interesting opponents is the single biggest fun factor in any game. In something like DotA2 it's the PvP (different, human behaviours) and number of champions you could face (each with different mechanics/abilities), here that means different Lieutenant and SK boss fights/mechanics/behaviours. But only the roaming monsters (the PvE component) really feels different from map to map and game to game.
Without any SK changes from game to game you *feel* like you know exactly what to expect in every game you'll ever play after the first. No surprises, no need to change tactics, no pressure to adapt or need to scout to discover the nature of the enemy. The map may as well show the SK and his lieutenants from the start with no fog of war, the fog isn't actually concealing anything from you that you don't already know after 1 game.
I can see you are aiming for that... wanting people to know who the lieutenants are and what that means at a glance. But I think the worry is misplaced. It's a *good* thing for people not to know, or be a little uncertain. The surprise of the unknown is exciting! It is why people play games and go "Oh no! Oh no! ...I'm dead" The first time you encounter something new should be a beautiful moment, filled with risks, suspense and excitement. I think, by making lieutenants so clear and obvious you actually remove all that potential beauty of the unknown, the risk of trying new strategies and the suspense of enacting a plan (e.g. lots of archers) and then the surprise when they're met in a tactical battle (and you realise the SK can buff the lieutenant with a guardian wind to foil your strategy).
It sounds like you're half convinced:
"(i mean, obviously, it would be great to have both but if you can only budget one option, I'd rather have different sovereigns)."
But need a little more convincing of the true value and the replayability gained from having different opponents. I think the picture in my head is again a comparison with Ogre Battle. The big bad of the first map is a wizard, you defeat him easily. The big bad of each map thereafter is different. Sometimes it's a big knight, sometimes it's an even bigger wizard and his minions will always be revived if you fail to defeat him. One map you're up against a baron, he asks you to fight him at night. *If* you listen to him you face him in werewolf form, tough as nails [and who can infect your troops with lycanthropy]. Fight during the day and he is a weak soldier. I remember him, the battle, the description of his dungeon filled with innocents even after not playing the game for several years. I'm not sure if I'll remember the two lieutenants here so fondly. They need stories about their actions, hints as to their weakness and for them to communicate with you in some form if they are to capture your imagination. Also, more of them... of for them to be different in some other way from game to game if art assets are being rationed. The mechanics shouldn't be expensive, not if you can re-use lots of existing stuff in new combinations. (All the Ogre Battle bosses are mostly mooks/standard units that you've not met yet, units that you're unlikely to have or have seen before but start appearing as regular units as the story progresses, an example of re-using mechanics done well).
Picture Ogre Battle if the first map you fought a lone wizard... then map 2 another lone wizard... map 3 another lone wizard... etc. Would you play the game till the end? (especially if you won easily the first fight, the difficulty will only go down from there as you gain in experience of the game, the spells and mechanics).
I find the idea of multiple Sorcerer King players compelling. But I don't have the budget available to do that AND have multiple sovereigns.
And the multiple sovereigns allow us to do a lot of interesting things like have different tech (skill trees), units, etc.
For example, the Tyrant is kind of a Saruman type player. He actually can train trogs and such. He, unlike the others, can also try to cast the Spell of Making and gains power with the Doomsday counter and can destroy shards.
The Nature Guardian has a lot of terraforming powers over the world.
The Tinkerer can craft a lot more sophisticated things and set up traps around the map.
And the upcoming Wizard change will see him able to bring down hell fire from the sky to destroy huge swaths of enemies.
I'm considering having the minor races play differently based on who you choose to play as. For example, if you're the Tyrant, I might let the minors expand and build new cities since they are caught between a rock and a hard place.
The Sovereigns sound very, very cool. ^^
The Tyrant making Trogs sounds very interesting. Also directly competing with the SK is brilliant, IMHO.
I never play evil characters as a personal rule but a Saruman type character sounds very thematic.
The Tinkerererer sounds awesome. Blowing up wandering armies with outposts was amusing but setting up a variety of traps to decimate them could be super fun.
Already super excited about the Guardian. ^^
Anyway, your post has been very encouraging. Quite different gameplay from the different sovereigns is a huge deal for me.
I wonder how the intangibles will go for the Tyrant? Cruel, very cruel or massively cruel? Who's heard of a compassionate tyrant?
That all sounds very interesting as player-customisation options. Especially since the Tyrant sounds almost exactly like one of the 'mechanics I'd love to see' mentioned above. So obviously I'm excited to see how that pans out. (certainly a few sparkles in the panning bowl to look forward to).
If the budget is a concern how much could old material could be recycled into SK? I'm thinking of all the wildlands bosses and elite units as (potential) lieutenants, the art from meeting them used as conversation splash screens and a very basic SK customisation screen. Basically just the bare essentials, something that could later be expanded upon... especially if the choices are between different bits of xml. (Each Icon selecting one xml file, which could add anything.) Even having only one option hints that in future there'll be more, so gets people excited about DLC/expansions well ahead of time. Like so:
It's just re-using old art (effectively free). But that doesn't stop it from looking pretty darn good. I'm not sure where the expense is... I just don't know what is and isn't expensive and I don't know why. I'd love to know more though. (Also, it's been fun using GIMP for the first time to do these little mock-ups. It's not quite as annoying to use now I've got the hang of the silly interface.)
I've posted something similar (regarding varying SK) before, so I wholeheartedly agree with Frank. It doesn't have to be a big deal with art assets, it'll already be enough if the SK has a pool of 10 passives of which 2 are randomly assigned (or 1 per difficulty level) that have simple global effects.
SK Warlord - passive - all SK units have +20% damage
SK Sentinel - passive - all SK units have +20% defense
SK Master Mancer - passive - all SK damage spells deal +33% damage
etc.
The coding would be relatively minimal, and require at most a couple of icons as art assets.
They payout is a more varied game where player strategy needs to adapt somewhat.
Just wanted to chime in that I"m reading these even if I haven't had a chance to respond more.
New Journal entry posted.
Here's a screenshot of the Swamp Giant's city:
With regard to the minor cities.
In version .701, I'm able to set up an outpost right next to their cities. It seems like the minors don't have a zone of control.
I imagine that if the player does plop an outpost in the minor's backyard, it will aggravate the minor, making it harder to deal with them.
The journal entry looks very promising. Almost literally, full of promises or "showing signs of future success." Crafting, SK diversity via the anti-you mechanic... I'm just not sure when these thing are planned for. (I'm hoping tomorrow but I expect some time later, any chance of an updated beta-schedule with an extra couple of lines?).
Also thanks for the mention, I quite like the Arcen games technique of mentioning beta-testers/bug-reporters/ideas-tasters in the changelog. There are so many posts around with people working hard to find bugs and squash them a little, relatively inexpensive recognition for their work goes a long way to making them feel valued. I know I feel more valued now then when we were mud-slinging and trading insults, though the actual game hasn't changed much since then, it's all about different perspectives.
oh, tiny note- I use the name Dr Frank-n-furter or some derivation of that in most forums for continuity and as an old reference to Rocky Horror picture show. Back from when I watched it to death and loved the songs and the mad-scientist-alien. http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0010150/bio I assume he picked the name in reference to the sausage, but I didn't. The nuance isn't very large or important in the grand scheme of things. (It's just one letter different really...) Anyway, any sign that comments/critiques/issues/ideas/bugs are being read and considered is good in my book.
I look forward to seeing if these changes work as intended. *fingers crossed* that they make the game as fun as it could be.
Also more frequent updates would be nice, especially if it's at all possible via opt-in betas. I find a month or two feels like a very long time when each game session is still so short (tiny maps, limited content). More to increase enthusiasm and forum participation than anything else. And give people a reason to play again, seeing how much of a difference tiny balance changes make or whatever.
Lastly... Good luck.
Franknfurter has some great ideas.
I'm glad you are here, despite your initial review drama.
Thanks... the review drama wasn't a fun experience at all (understatement). But I'm glad that's mostly over. (it wasn't doing anything good for my anxiety levels, bit of a fight-or-flight, primal response I was having to fight to post here. I'm much better now though)
Also I do have more ideas/issues/things on my personal ranting notes... but I'm waiting to see the next build to see what's added that feels good and what feels bad or lacking. I still think I need to better argue the point for more lieutenants/SK gameplay differentiation as a pre-game lobby option. So I'm curious as to when the SK will be the 'anti-you' to be able to judge if mid-game differentiation will be enough to make the enemy feel unique each game or not.
"I still think I need to better argue the point for more lieutenants/SK gameplay differentiation as a pre-game lobby option. So I'm curious as to when the SK will be the 'anti-you' to be able to judge if mid-game differentiation will be enough to make the enemy feel unique each game or not."
Really love your ideas on this. Even if this isn't something that makes it into final game. Perhaps it could be a DLC in the future.
Thanks Leo in WI
I'd like to hear what other people would love too. HenriHakl mentioned having +% bonuses for the SK. I'd call that the low-hanging fruit of SK differentiation. Easy to code and balance, but not very ambitious or game-changing. Still good, especially if it has some thematic grounding and affects your score, bigger challenge bigger rewards sort of thing.
But, if you could have any epic dream in the game (or an expansion). What sort of SK would you face? e.g.
A SK that grows with each shard destroyed, turning into some new strange monster with new abilities. (Dragon-master turned dragon, beast-master turned beast, spider-king turned into an arachnophobian nightmare.) A SK that lives in a floating castle that moves around the map, gobbling up shards as it passes. A SK that paints you as the evil that must be purged from the world and spreads beautiful grassland and flowers that hurt your undead/demonic/elemental beastsA SK that tunnels all over the map, sneaking armies behind your lines and generally being annoying.A SK that feeds on all magic cast, turning every spell you use against you in some form.
Some ideas aren't going to fit into the base game, that's obvious. But ideas are always good, comments are never worthless. It's just how and when to use them. The right idea, in the right form at the right time. (The form I've found works here is pictures... pictures really help people get a grip on ideas. It's not that the ideas are really any better than others mentioned, just the format and tone I've been working on improving)
(I'm sure quick mock-ups of the above ideas would get people interested... something that I may do if I have time, and like the idea enough to look for art to copy-paste, stretch, edit and otherwise cajole into something that looks like it almost could be real)
Some interesting ideas there.
I definitely want different Lootenants. I'd prefer not to know who they'll be before the game starts though.
So maybe have a pool of 4 and have 2 randomly selected. Or conversely, have the option to specify which 2 you would like in the game.
That way, there is an option.
Oh I'd love to be able to have enough options that setting all-random would be fun and entirely possible.
e.g. Choose the number of lieutenants (1-8 for really massive maps) and set them all to random. Much like you'd pick the number of AI players and have more for the massive maps than you would want for a tiny duel. Perhaps needing 3/4 of the keys/victory points to start the last battle. (You could replace keys with areas to capture, buildings to garrison for different/modified game modes without hurting the story... there's lots of potential for playing with every mechanic).
Also, setting the number of SK modifiers would be fun: +8 random, brutal-difficulty picks for a massive +% score modifier. (Where you need every trick in the book just to survive a few turns against dragons, siege weapons, golems and tunnelling, teleporting, terraforming terrors of the tetchy Tyrant). Or pick some 'jester' SK modifiers that reduce the difficulty ('forgetful', 'bashful', 'sneezy', 'kind', 'surprisingly gentle') or a mix of both.
I think the options are endless but what's needed first and foremost is a lobby options and interface... something that opens the window into the whole vista of future customisation options. I'd like each modifier eventually to have an icon, a description, a nice mechanic and fit neatly into a thematic UI... but that's difficult and potentially expensive. So the text only options sound cheaper.
Hence me brainstorming how it could look, brainstorming is free (nearly)... I think a book would be fine when the option number is small (as currently, 2 lieutenants 1 SK option), but if you want a big list (8+ items) you need a good way of navigating (a scrollable list) and selecting modifiers with some nice lore and thematic ties... I can see multiple book pages, or a scrollable list below a figure of the SK with the glow around him represented by the difficulty. A long lore page to confirm your choices with a description of his reign based on his traits as well as one long name. Like the gods in dominions: "The Great and Powerful Trixie, the Old Old One, Lord of Insects, the Symbol of Unification, Lord of Inventions". I'd like him to have a name... "The Sorcerer King Igor the Undying, Eater of innocents, bane of the heretic and surprisingly kind to rabbits and small mammals." I don't care about him currently... not in the way I think I should, and not in the current designs. I would if I had a hand in shaping him, perhaps I will anyway as the game grows and he interacts with you in more ways. But I know I'd feel a connection if I made the agent of my own downfall at the start of the game and then made him even stronger during play. Ramping up the challenge with subsequent games would be a real boost to replayability in my eyes.
I can see it being pushed to an expansion or not done at all... I know feature creep is an expensive problem, I just think it's worth doing sooner rather than later. I'm not sure what everyone else thinks. Where they'd place SK/Lieutenant customisation on the to-do list, what other people value even more that isn't currently planned. All I can speak for is my gut feelings on this. (I'll keep brainstorming, maybe try a few more mock-ups after having some time to think on things after trying out the beta tomorrow)
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