Project origins
There was some discussion on the Steam forums as to how to get an update to GalCiv 2 out there.
Draginol popped in and suggested that an update incorporating the expertise of the fanbase would be the best way forward. A bugfixing update would soon be on the way.
I sent a message to the other tech tree modders, and luckily secured the assistance of Gaunathor, and later MabusAltarn, as well as some dedicated members of the community who posted some valuable feedback. They have been instrumental to the success of the community update, and I'm glad to have played a small part along the way.
Progress report
The community update has been released as part of a rollout of Stardock products on GOG.com and is also available as an opt-in beta on Steam!
Downloads and links
Issues which can't be fixed with XML manipulation.
The file archive folder, hosted by MabusAltarn.
The list of bugs which can't be fixed with XML manipulation.
The spreadsheet of data changes, hosted by MabusAltarn.
Initial discussion on Steam forums
Credits for community member and Stardock staff involvement
Gaunathor - Tech tree changes, descriptions and standardisation. AI value adjustment. Planetary improvement changes and fixes. Keeper of the change logs, spreadsheet and file archive.
MarvinKosh - Typo and description changes (English.str, Techtree.xml). Additional spreadsheet analysis.
DARCA1213 - Tech descriptions.
MabusAltarn - UI changes, tech tree changes, AI value adjustment, keeper of the file archive, spreadsheet and change logs.
Maiden666 - Suggestions for improvement (technology victory bonuses).
OShee - tech descriptions.
SiliasOfBorg - tech descriptions.
Frogboy - executable code changes.
I found that out as I kept reading. But I hoped the responses still have value for the overall discussion.
So. What is the future of this discussion? Are we at the wish list stage? The roll your own mod stage?
Huh? Age is 14.3 Bly (roughly). Diameter is twice radius. "29 billion light-year diameter of the observable universe" is actually believable. 91 sounds like you're implying a disconnect from our reality, which is not good for suspension of disbelief. Edit: Read the justification and I understand the 91 Bly figure, but it doesn't apply. You said "diameter of the observable universe". Whatever the actual current radius there is nothing observable beyond the light radius.
this is what the lambda-CDM cosmological model - which is the current & widely accepted standard model - proposes.
what you fail to understand is that, because of cosmic inflationairy expansion, these objects that emitted that most-early light (usually from quasars) have been pushed away in the meanwhile through the effects that dark energy has on the spatial dimensions itself. which is the reason why we can observe things that are much farther away than just the distance which light can travel on its own.
I would have to say that not being to trade for planets except homeworld u have to b doing economically bad. The ai doesnt adjust value good. It will trade a class 26 planet hyperian shrinker economic and technological capitals.
Climb down, Maiden. You're missing the point entirely. We know that the light has been traveling for e.g. 14 B years. Light has a fixed velocity. Therefore at the time of emission, the source was 14 Bly away. What happened to the source "in the meanwhile" is irrelevant by the terms of the question -- it is not "observable". We can't 'see' a source at 20 Bly: it would take longer than the age of the universe for the light to get to us.
Now, I have heard a theory whereby inflation increases both distance and 'c', but I have to group that one with string theory as nice and maybe even elegant, but essentially unscientific.
Or maybe quantum weirdness has come to cosmology??
Later: Hmm. It's been a while since I thought much about this stuff. Inflation does indeed raise some interesting problems. If the space through which light travels is itself changing dimension, what is the effect on 'c'? And does point-of-view matter to the question? Got a place for me to investigate? I read good, generally.
Even later: Well, even a cursory consideration of the Wikipedia article (Lambda-CDM Model) tells me I'm way out of date on my cosmology.
However, it seems to me that the term "light year" is obsolete itself, since it seems no longer to describe a set distance. Perhaps answering the question in terms of light years is asking too much of your audience? How many are aware of the implications of the standard model? Parsecs would seem to be better. Or is "parsec" obsolete too, since inflation is non-local? (Now to try to get my head around "that" assertions.) Arrgh!
the standard model suggest that the universe is isotrop & homogen, meaning that the expansion of space happens everywhere to the same degree.
the speed of light is a natural constant, ie. it'll remain the same no matter what you do to the spatial background, so I don't see why the term light-year should be obsolete. If it were, noone at wikipedia would use it, you can safely trust the infos you read there. although it doesn't mean that you read the absolute truth there, since informations might naturally be adjusted to ongoing scientific development....
The article clearly says that inflation is non-local, in that the size of galaxies does not change (at least in relation to large scale distances), while the distance between galaxies can increase so fast that they actually fly apart at speeds exceeding 'c'.
Yeah, I'm still trying to get my head around that. Sounds more like the universe is, or will be, bounded by an event horizon.
BTW, if that last is so, what is the distance to those galaxies?
The trick here is to remind yourself that galaxies that are moving apart due to the inflation of space aren't really moving apart at all in the tradition sense. Speed is not what you should be thinking about. Rather, they are like dots on a balloon which is slowly being inflated. The dots themselves aren't moving, the space between them is expanding and is carrying them along with it.
When they say inflation of space is non-local what they really mean is that the size of the local space is so small compared to the distances between objects the stretching of space is trivial compared to the expansion between objects. Right now, as you are reading this, the space which you inhabit is expanding but it is so minute the atom bonds in your body hold you together easily.
Funny you should mention the universe having an event horizon because in all likely hood it does but we'll never be able to find it or go past it. Studies of black holes have led to a rather interesting conclusion about our universe. In essence, we are living in a holographic projection of two dimensional information lying on the even horizon of our universe. We, however, experience this as a 3d universe.
Studies have shown that certain particles are "weaved". They're bonded by an unexplained force. If you affect the spin (the way a particile rotates) the sister particle will react instantly. And when I say instantly I truly mean instantly. It is possible, but unproven, that these particles somehow communicate information outside our universe which means they are no longer bound by the limit of c.
You may want to check out this channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7_gcs09iThXybpVgjHZ_7g
The videos are high quality as is the material.
Fun fact 1: When someone tells you you're not the center of the universe you can counter that everyone is the center of their own observable universe! This is actually true because if you look outward everything is moving away from you and the same is true for someone standing next to you. Rainbows work on the same principle. No one sees the same rainbow.
Fun fact 2: If you fall into a black hole and somehow manage to survive you will experience your fall right up until you reach the sigularity in the center. However, an outside observer will never see you fall into the black hole because the light that will communicate this fact will never reach their eyes nor will you ever be able to tell them you're fine for the moment. So which situation is the right one? Answer: Both situation happen simultaniously and both obervations are correct.
Fun fact 3: Alright a bit sci-fi-y but it's theorized some of the massive black holes are big enough you could orbit the singularity when you're INSIDE the back hole. They'd make for the ultimate hiding place .
Regards,
Altarn
Interesting discussion
Mabus already added some intriguing thoughts, I assume steming mostly from the field of String theories, it can get crazy there^^
Let me just add some information.
If we were to look upon Dark Energy (=which may be responsible for the expansion of space) or Dark Matter in a strict scientific sense, then these words are just names that have been given to mathematical formulae - whose presence in a computerized simulation of the formation of the universe simply yields the best results; ie. a universe evolving from a "Big Bang" and matter & objects ultimately forming as we can observe it in the our sky. Without these mathematical constructs, most, if not all, universes are completely cold & dark, or collapse shortly after their formation into itself.
The question of why we then can't observe, or scientifically measure etc, this Dark Energy when it should actually also works directly in front our door, inside our houses etc is a legitimate one, with Mabus explanation "it's too small to observe" one possible explanation. Another is that it may work in another dimension, or may be part of space itself and not due to some particle or carrier of force. In a way like the elusive Gravitation.
And yes, there is (for us!) a universal event horizon in place, and that is actually what the term "observable universe" describes, and that is 91bln lightyears in diameter. The objects we see at that distance are rushing away from us with nearly the speed of light, in all directions. And because the current expansion of space is accelerating, nothing beyond that rim can actually cross into our observable region, because these objects have already relative speeds of greater than c, and they are (as anything else as well) accelerating. And because causality can also only travel maximally at the speed of light, all these parts of the universe are completely causally diconnected from us, nothing that happens there has or can have any effect on us whatsoever.
(and very very far in the future anything else will disconnect from us at some point except the galaxies from our own local group, which are blueshifted in constrast)
Although only if the expansion doesn't slow down (resulting in a BigCrunch or Bounce, if QuantumLoopTheories are found to be correct). As of now the majority says that the universe may expand endlessly resulting in a BigFreeze when expanding slowly.
A fast exponential expansion will lead to a BigRip, and from that idea you can actually really deduce that this expansion is everywhere, because, ultimately, the BigRip will even rip the building blocks of atomic nuclei apart (a neutron or proton consists of 3 quarks which are bound together by Gluons (carriers of the strong force)). When the speed of expansion will become so fast that the tiny tiny tiny space which a Gluon has to travel will expand faster than lightspeed, then the Gluon cannot reach its Quark anymore and the whole thing shatters; like this anything else may be ripped apart)
There no reason to think that gravity will cause it to slow down slow enough to rip it apart. Please elighten me on this. For the most part every object in our solar system is going towards the sun except jupiter and its orbital objects. Why would we think things would change beyond what we can observe. Most objects in these galaxies will stay in these galaxies at least after reasonable formation. In it's infancy it probably spits out alot of stuff.
There is reason to think something hold these galaxies together.
My question is if light is always faster than matter in any given area then how is it we are seeing the original light through the infared spectrum. Considering infared is light. We would always be trailing light.
One of the best Nova programs was the one that presented "the black hole war" between Stephen Hawking and Leonard Susskind. Hawking was stymied by the objection that any object that actually crosses an event horizon removes information from space-time, violating the (little known) principle of Conservation of Information. Susskind solved it one way, but Hawking didn't agree. His reply was a paper that 'solved' the dilemma by postulating that the lost information is actually moved into a parallel universe and thus is not lost. This is radical stuff indeed!
I, like others, have long held that P-space, like string theory, is an interesting speculation yet essentially unscientific since neither can be tested.
However, it did occur to me that Dark Matter can be explained by postulating that gravity (an otherwise unique phenomenon) can permeate 'branes. The DM that causes the observable gravitational effects may be simple matter that just isn't in our brane, but in others nearby.
Once one is willing to entertain the reality of a multiverse, all sorts of possibilities arise.
I'll try to respond to the other cogent posts above when I've had a little less to drink...
Dennis
The ripping apart is actually caused by an enormous expansion of space caused by Dark Energy with Gravity (in this scenario unsuccessful) trying to counter that.
If you mean the cosmic background radiation, this is because initially, the spatial expansion was so unbelievably fast, many times faster than the speed of light. So once the cosmos did cool down until it lost its opaqueness (hence, photons were able to fly loose/through) the universe was already so big that, not only did this radiation needed so long to reach us, it will also continue to reach us.
Later this expansion almost stopped down, and now is slowly getting faster. No sufficient explanation of how this mechanism works is available as of today, thus, none of the proposed final ends of the cosmos can be ultimately ruled out.
So I'm guessing that instead of light shooting in one direction your saying something keeps knocking it back and forth.
Uhh.. what?
Relativity theorists say/claim that the universe is/and always has been infinite in size, that is, you would never be able to be at its border or edge, no matter how young or old it is or were you're located at. However, our own region of space, which we may call the observable universe now, is only a tiny fraction of that. That means that, outside of this observable universe, there exist an infinite amount of places which emit light right at us, at all times, and that qualifies for the source of the CBR as well.
However, most of this light is actually not even able to reach us because the expansion of space prevents it so that's for one the reason why the nights sky can be dark and is not filled with an infinite amount of photons coming from an infinite amount of locations from the whole universe.
Infinite? Isn't that concept essentially incompatible with a Big Bang?
To say nothing about being untestable.
Nope, I don't buy it.
Assuming a big bang not that the universe was created, and made to sustain itself. Going off a big bang their would be a limit where is not mass. Their would be an infinite vacume. If their were multiple of these then all that would do is move not eliminate the vacume border. Now we know they found multiple big bang particles. Now what would eliminate these from being exploding black holes.
[wrong thread]
An infinite universe... This has an interesting implication not many people think about. It means anything that can happen, will happen, has happened and will keep happening over and over and over.
I'll try and illustrate this with an example.
Say we have an infinite universe with only two types of particiles. X and O. For sanity sake, let's say these particiles only appear in groups of 2.
With those rules you have a limited amount of possible configurations.
To be exact: XX, OX, OO.
In this simplified example there's a very limited number of configurations matter can take and you wouldn't have to travel very far to see a reassurance. In our own universe matter can take up an unthinkable amount of configurations but the number is finite.
If you throw in infinity into the mix then no matter how small the odds are, it WILL happen again. And again, and again.
It's kind of a bizarre idea but in an infinite universe I am typing this an infinite amount of times and an infinite amount of you are reading it after I post it.In an infinite universe a money hitting random keys really DID type all the sonnets of Shakespeare more than once.
The philosophical problem that arises from this is a nasty one: which version of you is truly you?
Some scientists believe that if you keep traveling in the same direction you'll eventually end up on the 'other' side of the universe. Kind of how pacman travels from one side of the game field to the other. The reason for this is because space/time can curve around. So even if you think you're traveling in a straight line you're still following a curve.
It's possible, but like you said, unprovable in the context of the universe. But there's many infinites you deal with on a daily basis. Just count from one to two. There's actually an infinite amount of numbers between those numbers. Infinity is a real thing and to make things even more complicated infinities come in different sizes.
There's an infinite amount of numbers between 1 and 2. But, there's also an infinite amount of numbers between 1 and 3, a bigger infinity.
The term big bang is actually a misleading one. There was no bang. For a reasons we don't know (yet) space suddenly expanded. Often this is dipicted as an explosion on TV.
There was no explosion, there was no 'bang'.
The 'bang' did not create more space than we have today it merely stretched it. If space was infinite before the big bang it will still be infinite afterwards. Keep in mind that before the universe expanded all space was compressed in a point with no dimensions of infinite density. At least, that's the theory. The truth is no one knows what the universe was like before the big bang because all our theories break down and spout of gibberish if we try to calculate it.
Big bang particles? I'm not sure what you mean by this. When the universe expanded and cooled down matter and anti-matter formed and annihilated each other. For some inexplicable reason there was more matter than anti-matter which is why we can have this conversation otherwise the universe would have been completely empty. The amount of matter/energy in the universe hasn't changed since the big bang.
Black holes don't explode, they vaporize (Hawking radiation). However, this takes an insane amount of time and in all likelihood there hasn't been enough time for (theorized) primordial black holes* to reach the point where they fizz out of existance.
It's theorized black holes could have formed in the early universe. These black holes are much smaller than stellar ones and would give off a lot of gamma radiation because smaller black holes vaporize faster. To this day we haven't seen a single one though.
I didn't know that was counted in the particle why.
About saying wrong post I could way that about this conversation.
Why does the black hole fizz out of e,xistence
Black holes give off heat. This was theorized by Stephen Hawking.
Here's why. Empty space isn't empty. All around us pairs of particles and anti-particles pop into existence only to annihilate each other a fraction of a second later.
This also occurs close to the event horizon of a black hole. Once you cross the event horizon there is no going back and this also applies to particles popping into existence.
When two particles pop into existence three things can happen.
One. Both particles fall into the black hole and are lost forever.Two. Neither fall into the black hole and annihilate each other.Three. One particles falls into the black hole. This can be the particle or anti-particle
In scenario three the left over particle is forced into existence and is given off as heat radiation which means the black hole is losing energy.
NOTE: It is a common misconception that since black holes give off heat 'stuff' is escaping from inside the black hole. This is not the case. The heat black holes give off pops into existence at the very edge of the event horizon not from inside it.
This has an interesting implication not many people think about. It means anything that can happen, will happen, has happened and will keep happening over and over and over.I'll try and illustrate this with an example.Say we have an infinite universe with only two types of particiles. X and O. For sanity sake, let's say these particiles only appear in groups of 2.With those rules you have a limited amount of possible configurations.To be exact: XX, OX, OO.In this simplified example there's a very limited number of configurations matter can take and you wouldn't have to travel very far to see a reassurance. In our own universe matter can take up an unthinkable amount of configurations but the number is finite.If you throw in infinity into the mix then no matter how small the odds are, it WILL happen again. And again, and again.It's kind of a bizarre idea but in an infinite universe I am typing this an infinite amount of times and an infinite amount of you are reading it after I post it.In an infinite universe a money hitting random keys really DID type all the sonnets of Shakespeare more than once.The philosophical problem that arises from this is a nasty one: which version of you is truly you?
The one that exists at this very time & place. So even if there would exist a 100% perfect copy of me, it won't be able to inhabitate my time & space, because that spot is already taken by me
Though I agree on your generell assessment, an infinite universe holds infinite possibilites (who said "inifinite diversity in infinite combinations"?^^). Nevertheless, it is still highly unlikely that perfect copies will ever meet each other given the insane amount of quantum possibility state our bodies do possess. If we take the Planck Length as smallest meter, the tip of a human finger holds 10^99 such different places; which is more than the observable universe has centimeters. So theoretically, if we had a microscope/telescope both with infinite ability to zoom, we oculd behold 100 trillion times more different occurrences in your finger-tip (lest say in your complete body) than centimeter in the whole observable universe.
Finally, because the nature of the universe is changing, it is very likely that there will be a time when bodies like ours cannot form anymore naturally, except perhaps through spontane quantum fluctuation.
You may find this link interesting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain
I think I remember from a recent discussion that the curvature of space isn't enough for it to form a sphere, it's more or less bend but "open" at the sides. But I might be wrong on this.
But even if it is, you won't be able to complete your journey, because the expansion of space will cause your distances to become ever greater (and as there is already a strentching in speed greater than c you cannot keep up with it). It's like a balloon where upon a snail crawls around while you constantly blow it up.
Yeah, well to define or try to understand infinity via mathematics is somewhat understandable (at least for me) but to incorporate that into our very material world just bursts my mind^^
You come to this infinity by a theoretical expression of making numbers ever smaller, however, such an undertaking is impossible in a material reality. If Quantum Loop Cosmology proofs to be correct, the Planck Meter is the smallest possible squale with space itself "bound by it". And because of this, no more infinite shrinking or dimensional collapsing of black holes, thus, also no informational loss.
Yeah, they can calculate really close to it to times when all basic physical forces were still conjoined (and gravity was indeed violently repulsive!) but it's somewhat more interesting for me to find or observe factual evidence. Hitherto, the CBR was the earliest thing but now, scientists are so excited about the proof of gravity waves, because exactly these could travel unhindered the early, still opaque universe, so detecting the primordial ones will give alot of new insights into the Big Bang Theory itself.
Perhaps there is some loss in Black Holes^^
According to Hawkings work, it has to be always the anti-particle, otherwise the BH wouldn't loose mass but acquire it. Or, if there is a random, thus equal distribution of occurrences of particle/anti-particle which fall in, then these would cancel out and the BH wouldn't change in mass at all.
I'm at a loss to explain why it's always the anti-particle. I've tried to get an explanation on this from several theoretical scientists but it was far beyond my understanding^^ :shrug: but Hawkings got the Nobel-prize on this very paper so that should be correct.
Let me just add that both Stellar & Supermassive BH are still acquiring more mass solely from the acretion of the CBR than they loose via Hawkings Radiation (so, they are less hot/bright than the vacuum of space itself) so there's no way to measure this radiation at all.
@Maiden. Awsome response, good read. I'll favorite that link for a later read.
Before they discovered gravity waves (which as AWESOME btw) they've been looking at neutrino's. When a star implodes it's preceded by a cloud of neutrino's because they can travel through the star before it goes kaboom. The same might hold true for the 'big bang'. If that's so and we can find a way to observe them we'll catch a glimpse of the BB before the emergence of light.
Wondered about that myself while I was writing my last post but didn't look it up. Thanks for elaborating. It is kind of worrying though, if a black hole doesn't lose mass it would, effectively, be eternal which means that if the LHC produces a micro-black hole it might be cause for concern some day.
Wouldn't eternal black holes contradict the currently popular cold death of the universe though?
It has to do with the Schwarzschild radius, those tiny BHs band space reak extreme which seems to accelerate emmision of HR. The artifially by man created one evaporate almost instantly. Don't even know if the term BH is correct here....
If I may make a wildguess on the only-antiparticles issue - it may have to do with gravity whcih bend spacetime in one direction and antiparticles also only junp in that direction...
yeah, neutrinos; very hard to detect but ironically the only real known form of Dark Matter we know about. Unfortunaleky not massy eniugh so it accounts only for a small part of it.
In that sense infinity is a mathematical concept. There is no real thing or set of things that is demonstrably infinite.
Yes, I've read Rudy Rucker, too.
hello guys and girls,, I have been playing GC2 for years on metaverse, but I never managed to get 1 % of the galaxy control...
is there a way of getting control of the galaxy??
thanks..
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