Project origins
There was some discussion on the Steam forums as to how to get an update to GalCiv 2 out there.
Draginol popped in and suggested that an update incorporating the expertise of the fanbase would be the best way forward. A bugfixing update would soon be on the way.
I sent a message to the other tech tree modders, and luckily secured the assistance of Gaunathor, and later MabusAltarn, as well as some dedicated members of the community who posted some valuable feedback. They have been instrumental to the success of the community update, and I'm glad to have played a small part along the way.
Progress report
The community update has been released as part of a rollout of Stardock products on GOG.com and is also available as an opt-in beta on Steam!
Downloads and links
Issues which can't be fixed with XML manipulation.
The file archive folder, hosted by MabusAltarn.
The list of bugs which can't be fixed with XML manipulation.
The spreadsheet of data changes, hosted by MabusAltarn.
Initial discussion on Steam forums
Credits for community member and Stardock staff involvement
Gaunathor - Tech tree changes, descriptions and standardisation. AI value adjustment. Planetary improvement changes and fixes. Keeper of the change logs, spreadsheet and file archive.
MarvinKosh - Typo and description changes (English.str, Techtree.xml). Additional spreadsheet analysis.
DARCA1213 - Tech descriptions.
MabusAltarn - UI changes, tech tree changes, AI value adjustment, keeper of the file archive, spreadsheet and change logs.
Maiden666 - Suggestions for improvement (technology victory bonuses).
OShee - tech descriptions.
SiliasOfBorg - tech descriptions.
Frogboy - executable code changes.
I doubt this. I've got this mod too and experienced never none of your problems.
If you select the Terrans and click on the "clear" button below you should be given this screen:
If that's not the case then something did go wrong. Try to manually delete the Community Update files and recopy them into the mods directory. Delete all raceconfic.xml in the MyGames directory as well.
I think I've found the error, there's a buggy line in the RaceConfig.xml under CustomRace:
<TechTree>TerranRace_TechTree</TechTree>
there is no TerranRace_TechTree
please change to
<TechTree>Terran_TechTree</TechTree>
edit:
you might want to add also a
<ESPIONAGE>-25</ESPIONAGE>
I find that the Thalan racial penalties are too strong. Actually a CustomRace using the ThalanTree is stronger, and this shouldn't happen. According to Kryo the StockRaces are designed to be stronger than CustomRaces.
The Thalan stats (including bonuses from techs & political party but without spending their distribution points) are:
-35 Popgrowth
+43 MP
+33 SP
+20 RP
-30 Diplo
+1 Sensors
+40 Loyalty
If I now take the Custom Race and try to mimic their setup I get these stats:
+15 Popgrowth
+40 SP
+30 MP
+15 RP
+5 Diplo
and still be able to spend 10 customization points. I basically exchange
-1 Sensors, -5 RP, -3 SP/MP & -40 Loyalty
for
+50 Popgrowth & +35 Diplomacy and the freedom to choose the SA at my leisure. Not that SuperHive is bad but if a player chooses Breeder he doesn't have to worry much about loosing his Loyalty at all. Then, in the hands of a player Spore, Dominator & Diplomat can be devastating.
A solution could be to either integrate some of their penalties into their techtree, or vice cersa, to take some of their racial bonuses out of their tree and give it them directly.
I launched a Terran testgame and I tried building up my starbases. It worked.
If Basic Space Construction is needed as a prerequisite as MabusAltarn says, then I can tell you I cannot see this tech among the ones available to the Terrans at the beginning, and it is not researchable, either.
If you don't have this technology than you need to remove the .RACECONFIGXML files in the following folder:
My Documents\My Games\GC2TwilightOfTheArnor
@Maiden
I'll fix the custom race techtree bug.
I might have an idea for this.
I'll often send funda nexus 6 ships back to a friendly planet for repair so they don't get busted up funda galaxy s5 in the field.
Maiden666 and MabusAltarn, thanks a lot for your help. Deleting the raceconfigxml files did the job.
I would ask you one more question; I want all races to be as balanced as possible, is it better to use or not use the 100 customization points for all playing races (player and AI)? If I can use them, is there any preferred setting?
Ok, thanks in advance, and wish all of you a happy new year.
Andrea
Your welcome.
If you don't spend the 100 points the game will do it for you so... it's probably best to do it yourself.
Have fun and a happy new year to you as well.
Just make custom races worth 100 points, down from 150. Same issue happens with Torian - you can mimick all their stats with 15 extra Luck and still have 90 points left for spending,
Problem solved :>
Don't forget parties are not set in stone and for example, if you spend their points, they can get:
-30 pop
73 SP
63 MP
30 Research +1 sensor
40 Loyalty
-30 Diplomacy
or
93 SP
83 MP
10 Research
With a custom race it is impossible to get even close to that production. But if you want to buff them a little, make both Xeno Medicine and Xeno Biology in their tech tree only +5 pop, and reduce penalty to -50. Then do the same with their Xeno Communications and Universal Translator, each 0 Diplomacy, and starting penalty to -20. This will boost Thalan compared to Custom race.
You can also make Temporal Mechanics and Hyperion Matrix cost 30 each, this will reduce starting techs of the Custom race, further weakening it start compared to original Thalan.
Edit: I forgot in recent update they got -60 pop growth instead of 50. Fixed values.
By the way, I tested Thalans on same settings with same races, results are still the same:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ezn5m0dzxxfzsi6/ScreenShots.zip?dl=0
Then there is absolutely no reason to make a Costum Race anymore. Custom Races only get the smallest amount of logistics and no other stats, so having more distribution points is justified - and it makes sense because it gives a player more freedom to create something unique. That's why CustomRaces are chosen in the first place.
You are forgetting the extra +4 Logistics that Torians have, which lets them have an additional Tiny Fighter, which, if we only take the starting logistics ability into consideration, equates to 25% more firepower. So you can come to equal terms with them, but not better.
They are now, unless a player manually choose to change that. But then that's none of our responsibility. Besides, Thalans have with Technologists one of the strongest Political Party anyway....
With a custom race it is impossible to get even close to that production
You are right, but my comparison wasn't a test to see who can come highest on some stats, although here still the Custom Race will be far better in Diplomacy or Popgrowth - which IMO are stats that the Thalans need more than production.
IMO the Thalans don't even need this high production because their factories and the ability to build them with a single turn can give them a better initial production than any other race in the game. What they need is the ability to pay for their immense maintenance and production costs. How to do that? 1. Techtrade --> low diplo. 2. Econ Planets --> no farms, low popgrowth. 3. Extorting money from other civs --> low diplo. 4. Waiting for econ to be established homogenuously on all planets --> low popgrowth 5. Trade-->ok.
The problem with this approach is that these techs then should be made untradeable, otherwise you can trade these techs onto your enemies and thereby weaken them. But attributing some of these penalites to Hyperion Matrix tech or Temporal Mechanix would do the trick.
Me too, and I found them to do very good in some fields and also to be quite erratic in others:
- Thalans don't quickbuy stuff that often but rather produce stuff. This way they can keep their global spending slider higher and I've seen games with them where the slider never jumped to 20% due to being broke like Altarians, Korx etc. They even save money which gives them time to adjust the sliders down if they should encounter financial pressure (in the case they research+build facs+labs).
- Thalans leave their initial planets blank which is a good option to not go broke. Their closest spamable improvements are +15% influence, which @1bc maint isn't a drag, or +15% moral which actually promotes their economy.
Problems:
- If they research factories too early they basically fill up all their planets with them without having the necessary money to run them. I've seen them reduce sliders to 4% global spending for a complete year (!). During this time maintenance costs were 80% of their total expenses (!!). In this situation no research or production did happen. So the only thing that could have taken out of this swamp is population growth, but here they are major penalized. They need not to research their factories too early.
- I've seen them researching tier2 factories at the end of the first year - this research took them 24 weeks (!). At the end of the second year they began research on tier3 facs - which took 51 weeks (!!). So from 3 years research 50% of their total research was for what? To reduce the maintenance of their factories from 11 to 7 LMAO. And they still had to upgrade these factories and invest a boatload of industry production. This is nonsense -.-
If their factory/lab progression stays how it currently is the tier2+3 should be given the lowest AI value to make sure the AI ignores it. The bonus from these techs is minor. Instead, these RP could have been spend on economical stuff which then could cover for their maintenance easily; and the cost for upgrading their facs/labs could go straight into other stuff.
- Their factory/lab "progression" is bogus/pointless. In vanilla it was maintenance 15-->10-->5, so you could save 10bcs per improvement when upgrading them. Now it's only 4. However, the old factory progression did kill Thalans in some games. The AI simply isn't programmed for this alternate play. 15bcs maint per structure is huge and gamebreaking esp. early, and if we take the production costs also into equation, every early factory costs Thalans ~33bcs/turn.
IMO these improvements should be redesigned to something like this:
Tier1: 10 prod @ 12 maint
Tier 2: 11 prod @ 7 maint
Tier 3: 12 prod @ 2 maint
Results would be:
- Initial production is less which stifles their early game a bit. Thalan AI doens't encounter such a rush in cost/prod once factories are researched. This is a small nerf.
- Maintenance costs are greater reduced than now which gives a true reason to make this transition.
- Small increased production from tier to tier give an additional reason to do this.
- Final lower maintenance costs compensate the nerf of initially lower production.
Basically Thalan strength is shifted from early to endgame, although only to a small fraction.
Tier 3: 12 prod @ 2 maintThis will only magnify the problem of them having end game way too strong (it's not only early game). As they are now, on Large galaxies with fast reasearch, they have both Industrial and Technology Matrixes on level 3 by turn 120-140. 2 maintenance is way to low. All generic labs give you 2 tp for 1 bc maintenance, no matter what tier they are. Thalan labs should end with same or similar cost effectiveness. 13/9/5 or 12/8/4 would work better. Both are still cheaper to maintain then in vanilla.
I ran a couple of games earlier with increased maintenance to see if this will stop them from becoming a pink blob of doom (I set it first 13/9/6 bc), but result was still the same - Thalan OP. That was still with EDU on 25%.
If they research factories too early they basically fill up all their planets with them without having the necessary money to run them.I have this problem with Thalan once every 5-7 games, it's not very common. Unless it happens frequently on different settings then mine (Large/fast).
I've been looking into differences between CU Thalan and vanilla Thalan, and I think I know why they got suddenly so strong. I'll post later the results, first I need to test my theory in game.
How do you know this? Once one Planetary Invasion starts testplays either crashes the game or freezes it. And that's just the beginning of mid-game.
Well it's 3 bcs less than currently, although at the sacrifice of 2 industry of their starting facs. It's not a buff but a trade-off.
In our current CU their tier1 was reduced by even more (-4) without any loss (so a real buff) but I still see Thalans wreck their economy with their improvements. Basically a step into the right direction but still not efficient enough (unless you want them to go broke as a balancing factor^^)
Since the Thalan's use a different approach to fac/lab progression - this is impossible to be achieved. Their tier1 will always have a different tp-for-maint value as their tier2 and also their tier3.
Thalan Labs:
Initial Colony 12 RP @ 10 maint
4 * Lab = 48 RP @ 20 maint
Total base 60 RP = 60 bcs
Let's assume a bonus of +30 racial research, makes 78 RP, adding 9 bcs bonus prod
Total: 99 bcs for 78 RP
The generic tree using a RCC will come to this:
3 * Lab = 36 RP @ 18 maint
1 * RCC = +25% @ 3 maint
Total maint: 31 bcs
Base RP cost = 48 RP = 48 bcs
Bonus prod: 15 bcs
Total: 94 bcs for 78 RP
As you can see the generic tree actually offers a cheaper research even if I use the best/cheapest Thalan lab already. This is because the RCC provides bonus research whose cost is only 50% and the RCC will become more and more efficient the more labs are added to its boosting power. And if I make these calculations with low-tier Thalan improvements you'll see how inferior in terms of "power for cost" ratio they really are.
They are only good because they give you a boatload of starting power - if you can handle it. The AI cannot! That's why Gaunathor actually reduced the initial maint from 15 to 11. His motive was spot on , but I still see Thalans ruining their game even at 11 bcs maint. Making it now again higher will only exacerbate the matter.
The problem here is to make their endtiers reasonable. That is, the difference between the tiers have to be *increased* without presenting them too much cost in tier1.
TBH IDK why Thalans are so much dominating in your games. In my current games they range from broken to good. However, I only observe the first 3 years. In that way keep in mind that Thalans are intended to be initially strong - probably the most strong AI.
They also have alot of strong racial stuff coming from their techtree - military production, weapons, speed and alot of stuff from ethics. Maybe your fast techspeed does promote these bonuses too fast? I usually make techspeed dependant on the planet count (seen in debugg.err) because lots of planets promote research as does galaxy size increase the number of research resources. For above 700 planets = very slow; 300-700 = slow; etc picking Very Fast only on Tiny/Small maps in a rare setup. For testing I always use normal techspeed on medium abundant or large common galaxies.
Another usually mitigating factor is that in these testgames the player will be missing. Because of their diplo-penalty Thalans are #1 target to exploit, trading useless techs to them for good money, getting their techs easily, and Thalan are the very best race to get planets from through trade. The presence of a player or Human/Drath (who exploit Thalans often diplomatically) can act as a real throttle.
This is how Thalans wreck their own game: (Medium abundant 65 turns, normal speed vs 5 AI)
This is the day when Thalans finished research on tier1 facs. So far they can sustian their production even with espionage (without espionage 100% would be possible). They have ~800bcs in storage. After this week they build facs and research tier1 labs.
After 3 months the rapidly increased maintenance costs brought them into the negative although they had time to reduce sliders every turn, as evidenced in this screen:
Note how maintenance costs did increase by factor 2.5 although no new planets have been colonized. This is solely from building 11 factories.
I now take espionage to 0 and adjust global spending slider short of going into negative net income:
We get: 33 MP + 17 SP + 18 RP + 15 BonusP = 83 Production Cost + 278 Maint = 361 Total Production Cost, for:
33 +17 +18 +2*15 = 98 Production. In other words, 1 production for ~4 bcs (!!!)
What I did then, I went to all planets and decommissioned all the 11 factories, and afterwards increased the adjusted the global spending slider up until it was also short of going negative:
As you can see without factories their industry could be run @ 100% spending. And this did even increase their output:
57 MP + 36 SP + 78 RP + 47 BonusP = 218 Production Cost + 146 Maint = 364 Total Production Cost, for:
57 + 36 + 78 + 2*47 = 265 Production. 1 Prod for 1,5 bcs.
Fazit: Their factories reduced their output to only 30% of what could have been possible.
And the reason why they couldn't cover for their production in this case:
Alot of morale structures on normal planets made him jack up taxes so high that no pop growth is possible anymore on low PQ planets (who will always be filled up with facs). These planets will be stuck at their 0.0n population forever and most likely be flipped or taken on first try. That's the basic problem with spamable morale structures and the Iconians actually have the same problem.....
https://www.dropbox.com/s/r1rmkack6w9abib/Thalan%20Medium.zip?dl=0
I went with your suggestion and tested same civs on Medium map, normal speed, abundant habitable, common planets. One thing for sure, Thalan were not as strong as on Large maps with all abundant, but still were strongest overall. They lead in research/economy in 4 out of 5 games, and their economy was really bad in game #2. So you were right, this has to do with maps as well ^^ My guess is, the more planets there is out there, the more imbalances show.
You have strong arguments, and prove your point. I have another idea to boost their economy but lower production a little. Tell me what you think.
I made a small spreadsheet of vanilla vs CU values for all races, trying to find where Thalans got buffed most.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/trip254qzugnwt9/tech%20comparison%205.3.4.ods?dl=0
From what I can tell, Thalan got a lot more +SP/MP and +Research in their tech tree. Previously, they had no bonuses on their version of Planetary Improvements other then 10 economy, and no Military Production on their Space weapons/Militarization. No +Research from Hyper Mainframes and only 5 from Remedial Engineering. Overall they gained most - 10 SP, 40 MP, 20 Research. Others like Drengin or Korath also got more bonuses in their tree, but those are more expensive techs further down the tree (past Slave Canyons), so do not make any difference in their start. Thalan also got less pop growth now then in vanilla.
Altogether, a lot of original design is gone. Thalan are not supposed to get so high in production, especially MP. Their pop growth should be higher, as like you said, it is better just to make a custom race. Both their Planetary Improvements and Space Militarization is already untradeable, so that's -10 SP -20 MP and -10 Research that can be taken away. Their initial pop growth penalty can go from -60 to -40, so they will end up with -15, same as vanilla.
This will slow down their early game production (and production spending), but boost economy with higher pop growth.
I guess their morale can be fixed by making Recuperation Center a 1pp, with higher bonus but more cost, so it takes a bit more time to build. If their morale is more even across all planets, it will help them a little bit. Morale up to 40 from 25, cost up to 80 from 50.
Or, they might be overbuilding it as it has 200 AI value, so it could just be reduced and maybe they won't overtax themselves.
Proposed balance tweaks and changes (mostly reverting things back to original values and bringing charm back from vanilla):
Yor;
- Research Matrix: TP down to 10 from 12. All other labs got reduced, this one was missed. AI cannot improve this once they get Discovery Sphere, but same happens to Torians and their Central Mine once they get Industrial Sector. Alternatively, increase the maintenance cost to 5.
- Maintenance Grid: Morale down from 25 to 20. Back when it was 1pp, it given 20% bonus. They also got additional morale from stalks, so they don't need this extra buff.
- Efficiency Studies V: Economy Ability down to 15 from 20. Research cost up to 3500 from 3000. Could use a bit lower AI value as well.
- Collectives costs: Yor are supposed to have strong manufacturing, but in early game it is far from truth. All races except Torian, Iconian, Drengin and Korath already have same or higher Social Production then Yor in the early game (I'm not counting the bonus from Distributed Energy Matrix tech, as it comes late). Industrial Theory, Planetary Improvements, Xeno Engineering, Industrial Revolution puts SP to 40. Yor achieves it with Xeno Engineering, Planetary Improvements and their racial bonus. In other words, their racial bonus is only there to keep their production from falling behind. In case of Military, they still have 20 more then generic race in the early game, but that is to be expected from race with strong manufacturing.
Simplest solution would be to reduce cost of their collectives. CU/Proposed
Basic Collective 50 / 45 - 10 more then factory of the same level
Manufacturing Collective 100 / 85 - 15 more then factory of the same level
Manufacturing Collective II - 150 / 125 - 20 more then factory of the same level
Manufacturing Collective III - 200 / 165 - 25 more then factory of the same level
Manufacturing Collective IV - 250 / 205 - 30 more then factory of the same level
This means that for example, you can build 5 Advanced Factories for 350 bc and 30 production, or 4 Collectives mk II for 340bc and 28 production.
Even simpler would be just increasing their Social bonus from 20 to 30 or 35, but previous solution is "cleaner".
Iconian;
- Government techs: remove Diplomacy and Influence from techs. In vanilla, they had lower Diplomacy then Drengin. Alternatively, remove Advanced and Expert Diplomacy, and reduce Xeno Persuasion from 20 to 5.
- Basic Replicator: cost back to vanilla value from 35 to 25. It already provides 1 less manufacturing, and most races get access to more techs granting +Social then Iconians do, no need to nerf them in this regard.
Korath/Drengin;
- Slave Pits: In vanilla, they were cheaper, but with less production. This was unique to Drengin/Korath, now they are just like generic factories with different skin.
Vanilla/CU/Proposed (MP/Maintenance/Cost):
Basic Slave Pit - 3/1/25 || 4/1/35 || 3/1/25
Slave Pit - 5/2/50 || 6/2/70 || 5/2/50
Slave Canyon - 10/3/120 || 10/3/105 || 10/3/105
This way they are weaker, but also built faster. So in the end it ends up the same. Also they are not carbon copies of generic improvements.
10 Basic Factories - 40 production, 14 Basic Slave Pits - 42.
10 Advanced Factories - 60 production, 14 Slave Pits - 70.
Slave Canyons are unchanged.
They get slightly cheaper "cost per output" for two reasons:
1. They can achieve lower maximum output per planet.
2. They lose more extra manufacturing from bonus tiles.
- They don't have 12 tp lab, so to compensate, they need to get to their 10 tp lab sooner - they do, but
- They need extra 2500 research to get their +20% research improvement which generic race unlocks sooner.
Vanilla/CU/Proposed
Diabolical Research - 100/400/200
Imaginative Research - 400/900/700
Ultimate Diabolical Research - 1200/2500/1800
Pain Amplification - 800/2500/1500
2500/6300/4200
This lets them reach 10tp lab sooner, while still allowing them to get +20% improvement just before generic race gets his 10tp.
Or, we can again look into vanilla for guidance. In vanilla, basic lab was 6tp worth, now it is 4. Basic Slavling Lab was 4, and now it is still 4, because no one changed it. Ultimate Diabolical Lab actually skipped one tier of labs, but because it had to be reduced to 10 from 12, it is more standarized. But flavor is gone.
CU/Proposed (RP/cost):
Slaveling Imagination Lab - 4/40 || 3/25
Improved Slaveling Lab - 6/75 || 5/55
Advanced Slaveling Lab - 8/110 || 7/85
Ultimate Slaveling Lab - 10/145 || 10/115
So almost same thing as with proposed changes for their Slave Pits.
Drengin;
Their tech tree is similar to Korath, and their starting bonuses are almost mirrored, with exception of Morale that Korath get. If it wasn't for that and their SA, they would be almost same. I suggest we bring back vanilla bonuses:
20 Weapons
+1 Speed
10 HP
20 Soldiering.
Korath;
It is said they were elite warriors of Drengi, but it is not specified if it means their fleets or troops. In vanilla, they had lower Soldiering then Drengin, but higher Weapons and HP, so it points at the former. They could use a bit less Soldiering in their starting racial ability. Meaning:
Soldiering 10, down from 30.
HP 20, up from 10.
I'm worked the histroy techs into each techtree. All will be available weather they're picked or not. Without this change custom races can be left completely crippled failing to research, manufacture, etc. I've also been looking at the posts so far.
Here's what I'll do.
Thalans:
I'm combining OShea's and Maiden's suggestions for the Thalan. That is, their factories labs will get new output/maintenance and I'm reducing the bonuses values on space weapons and planetary invasion. Pop growth stays at -50 since they do get the Recruitment Center and they didn't in Vanilla.
Yor:
Research Matrix: Yes.
Maintenance Grid: Yes.
Efficiency Studies V: Yes.
Collectives Costs: Yes.
Iconian:
I'm not touching their diplo. In the CU the Yor/Drengin/Korath are the worst at diplo and I'm okey with the Iconians getting a bit more. Xeno Pursiasion had 20 in vanila, I see no reason to change this.
Basic Replicator: Done. These are actually the same values as a Basic Slave pit.
Reduced mp/bc for production/research as suggested. This seems more appropriate for them.
Adjusted research tech cost as suggested.
In addition, maintenance from School/University was raised from 1/2 to 2/3. This makes the torian research structures more expensive for the roughly the same build cost/tp.
As to racial bonuses... I'm not sure I want to touch these atm.
Regards,
M.
sounds good to me
The problem is that, no matter from what point you start in their techtree - they would have to research 4 techs in a straight row to get to a spamable planetary improvement. Right now the Recuperation Center is the only one in close reach.
Then, I don't know if they are going to build it on lowPQ worlds.. AFAIK the AI will make factory-only planets out of them, donno if that's still the case if they only have the RC available.... But if not then uping the RC to 40% would probably make matters worse..... (but let me first test this out before jumping to conclusions...)
Anyway, I've taken a look at their vanilla improvements, and the Recuperation Center gave only +15% morale. They also had a "Zero G Amusement" which gave +25% and was unlocked by "Expert Gravity Channeling", but there it isn't available anymore, so basically Gaunathor turned the Zero-G into the RC. Thus the sudden increase in planetary morale being more steep. Strange, because with Iconians he actually did the opposite....
Maybe we could nerf the RC back to +15 morale and instead of the Zero G Am attribute +15 racial morale to Expert Gravity Channeling? That would distribute his morale plus more equally throughout his planets although his power to build morale-powerhouses would be nerfed a bit...
Before we get ahead of ourselves here's V5.4.0.
Link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/x7r1rtzpcq77njk/Community%20Update%20V5.4.0.zip?dl=0
This update deals with History tech vanishing from sight when not selected while making a custom race. Simply put, all tech is visible and can be researched.
=TechTree
History techs set to None and are linked in a liniar tree. This means you can always research these techs. This fixes a severe problem with custom races where one can be locked out crucial tech. This can be crippling to a player or worse, used as an exploit.
Temporal Mechanics:-Cost from 10 to 30
HyperionPackages:-Cost from 10 to 30
NeutralHistory: removed
=PlanetaryImprovements
EntertainmentCenter-Requirement from NeutralHistory to InnovativeHistory
All SlavePits-Adjusted costs as suggested by OShea.
All SlaveLabs-Adjust costs as suggested by OShea.
All Collectives-Adjusted costs as suggested by OShea.
Maintenance Grid-Adjusted Costs as suggested by OShea.
Research Matrix-Research from 12 to 10 as suggested by OShea.
School-Maintence from 1 to 2. Without this School and Basic slave lab are completely similar.
University-Maintenance from 2 to 3. Without this University and Improvd Slave Lab are completely similar.
=All RaceTree-Added entries to link up history techs
=Thalan TechTreePlanetaryImprovement-Military/Social/Research bonus to 0 as suggested by OShea.
Space Weapons-Military bonus to 0 as suggested by OShea.
Recuperation Center -AI 200 to 100.
=RaceConfig CustomRace:-Espionage set to -25.-Fixed techtree entry.
Thalan:-PopulationGrowth from -60 to -50
Full details are in the change log.
Let's see how the Thalan do now before going all overboard with changes left and right.
OK, just to check.
When you post an update to the CU, I suppose I go to my mods file in my games and delete the current community update directory, then unzip the new CU in the same place. Additionally, delete any race config files that are present in the My Games area. Delete or simply don't use any save games from the previous update.
Check?
Yes. Also remove any customization you've made.
Minor update.
Version V5.4.1
Link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nudx3pyy2dv0kao/Community%20Update%20V5.4.1.zip?dl=0
============= V5.4.1 =============
Overview:
Xeno Research was moved to Xeno Engineering. That way the AI grabs it sooner and progresses down it's labs faster. The Drengin and Korath get their own version of this tech. The Torians now use it as well.
All labs have been given a boost in AIValue.
ExtremeColonization requires Terraforming. I am sick and tired of AIP11 breaking itself over these techs and now I've had enough. ExtremeColonization is something you get LATE in the game now so it doesn't bungle early research. I know some of you might not like this but the benefits to early AIP11 research are just to good to pass up.
The Torians still have early access to aquatic planet research. This also means any SA that grants X-Col tech should be considered very worth while. 2nd level X-Col is no longer tradable.
Thalan/Terran/Torian/Yor/Iconian group https://www.dropbox.com/s/to6yrea55tf2p6i/Thalan%20group.zip?dl=0
AIP7 group https://www.dropbox.com/s/w24xwtsf7xcyp57/AIP7%20group.zip?dl=0
Krynn/Korx/Arcean/Altarian/Drath group https://www.dropbox.com/s/ibjtombi2vtjllh/Drath%20Korx%20Krynn%20Arcean%20Altarian.zip?dl=0
All games vary from 100 to 180 turn
Set 1 Very Fast, Large, Abundant, Thalan, Torian, Terran, Yor, Iconian, Korx, CU 5.4.0
Game 1: Thalan dominated
Game 2: Thalan and Terran
Game 3: Thalan, but not much
Game 4: Terran
Game 5: All races even
Game 6: Thalan, Torian close second
Game 7: Thalan
Game 8: Iconian, Terran, Torian even at the top.
Set 2 Medium, normal, Abundant habitable, Common planets, Thalan, Torian, Terran, Yor, Iconian, Korx disabled. CU 5.4.0
Game 9: Torian, Iconian close second
Game 10: Thalan, Terran, Iconian pretty even.
Game 11: Iconian and Torian
Game 12: Thalan and Yor
Game 13: Terran, followed by Torian
Game 14: Torian, followed by Iconian
Game 15: Thalan, Iconian
On Large galaxies with higher number of planets Thalan still is at the top, but twice their crown was taken by other race. Once they were even with everyone else, and once they were pretty low at the bottom. On medium maps, they are less dominant, being at the top of the stats on 3 out of 7 games. Every other race was at least once in the second spot. Overall - changes were good.
Set 1 Medium, normal, Abundant habitable, Common planets, Drengin, Korath, Yor, CU 5.4.1
Game 1: All even
Game 2: Drengin - had best starting position
Game 3: Yor - again best position
Game 4: Korath, followed by Yor (who lost their elections lol)
Game 5: Yor
Game 6: Yor
Game 7: Korath, followed by Drengin
Game 8: Drengin and Yor
Set 2 Medium, fast, Abundant habitable, Abundant planets, Drengin, Korath, Yor. CU 5.4.1
Game 9: Yor, followed by Korath
Game 10: Yor
Game 11: All equal
Yor seem to be strongest of the bunch, but against other civs, they are just average. The area Drengin/Korath are behind most is research. I looked at their planets, and well, no wonder they don't have much research going. It also might be because research cost for their labs increased, while output decresed at the same time, but something else caught my eye.
Both Korath and Drengin build to many Morale Improvements (Counter Espionage and Arena/Slaughtertoriums) at the expense of Slave Canyons/Labs. This slows them down considerably, as their production is slower, and they are not able to keep up with Yor research.
Yor have a similar problem, in that they don't build many Collectives. They also could go without so many Counter Espionage Centers. Luckily for them, they have a 1pp research improvement, so they actually have pretty good research stats.
Korath in none of the games built Dark Influence (I do not know if they researched tech itself, but my guess is no or it was so late, they didn't build it in time).
Set 1 Medium, normal, Abundant habitable, Common planets, Drath, Krynn, Altarian, Arcean, Korx. CU 5.4.1
Game 1: Arcean, Drath, but overall pretty even.
Game 2: Altarian, all other races equal.
Game 3: All pretty even, slight lead of Korx and Arcean.
Game 4: All even, with slight lead of Altarian and Krynn.
Game 5: Krynn and Korx.
Set 2 Large, normal, Abundant habitable, Abundant planets, Drath, Krynn, Altarian, Arcean, Korx. CU 5.4.1
Game 6: Krynn
Game 7: Almost even if not for Krynn
Game 8: Krynn
Game 9: Slight lead of Krynn and Drath
Game 10: Krynn
Krynn is very good on larger maps, behaving in this test group just like Thalan. On medium maps, all races are equal, and even previously weak Altarians, Korx and Arceans got at least one good shot at the top.
Tomorrow I will mix the groups a little and post the results. Time to get ready for New Years party :>
Btw small typo in Stellar Forge:
"With 450,000 years of engineering experience", should be 50,000.
Mabus I've skipped v5.4.0 but in v5.4.1 the bug is still present:
-->
These may already be fixed, but please check:
1) Yor did not have access to the telepathy center / insta-flip building. Is this supposed to be this way? I really like having that.
2) There is a visual alignment issue with the "save" modal dialog box when creating new ships. The box appears to be too long vertically and the buttons don't quite fit. Cosmetic only.
/shakes tiny fist
I can't test these as fast as they're coming out!
... but its because I've been working extra this week (only 2 of my 6 person team is in) and I've been fighting a cold. There's enough goop in my eyes to power some kind of nuclear eye-goop-reactor for months.
Keep up the good work, I'm off the next few days and hope to get some testing in.
Happy 2015 everyone!
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