Hmm.  Is there some way of working around the "need the senate to declare war" thing?   The Drengin would have none of that foolishness.

For the Yor, I'm ok with requiring senate approval;  if they "turn on" distributed planning,  then they need distributed agreement on the best course of action.

edit:  nvm,  I've worked it in.

edit the second:  I wish there was a way to make these race-specific (from English.str):

[Government1] The Republic form of government is now available.\n\nColonies are given more power by allowing them to vote on which parties make up the senate. \n\nDo you want to change your form of government to Republic?
[Government2] The Democracy form of government is now available.\n\nColonies are quasi-sovereign and allowed to vote on which parties make up the senate. \n\nDo you want to change your form of government to Democracy?
[Government3] The Star Federation form of government is now available.\n\nColonies have rights as equal "states" in a federation of planets from which they can vote on the parties that make up the senate. \n\nDo you want to change your form of government to Star Federation?

It's going to be a bit jarring seeing these after researching "Collective Planning" or "Administrative Slavelings". 

@Silas.

I wouldn't worry to much about those descriptions. They rarely pop-up.

And I think the Slave Senate would always vote for war, wouldn't they?

Those Drengin descriptions are going into the next release. Love 'em.

Thanks for the spell check.

Guys (gals?) I could use some feedback on the following items to finalize some desicions. I'll make it easy. Just quote the questions below and reply with a numbered list. Expand on the answer if you like but please try and be brief.

QUESTIONs

1. Drath changes. In our out?
2. Planetary Invasion unlocked by Space Weapons. In or out?
3. Space Defense unlocked by Space Weapons. In or out?
4. Military Starbases as Industry to keep research costs down. Good or bad idea?
5. Military Starbases unlocked by Space Weapons. In or out? 
6. -25 Espionage. Good. Bad. Does it need a higher value?
7. Korx colonization after espionage change. Better. Same. Worse. Do they need work or do we leave them as is?

Hey everyone. I spend the evening polishing research and doing some all round testing. I also finished my work on the Drath which in hind sight wasn't that much work.

Here's the link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rre1q8917zy5n8q/Community%20Update.zip?dl=0

Here's the Damage:

RaceConfig.XML

TechTree.XML

XenoMysticism:
-Requires None to Temples*

StarbaseMobilization
-removed group tag

StarbaseProjection
-removed group tag

StarbaseDomination
-removed group tag

StarbaseConquestStrategy
-removed group tag

Anti-Matter Power Plants
-cost from 1000 to 2000

WayOfTheArnor
-AIValue to 10

WayOfTheDreadLord
-AIValue to 10

Charging Stalks
-AIValue -10 to 15

SlaveCanyons
-Cost 15 to 1500 (oops!)

Altarian TechTree.XML
-Xeno Ethics Requires Xeno Mystesism to Temples

Terran TechTree.XML
ExtremeColonization
-CanBeTraded to 0. Prevents MASSIVE techtrade exploit due to AIValue -10

Krynn TechTree.XML
ExtremeColonization
-CanBeTraded to 0. Prevents MASSIVE techtrade exploit due to AIValue -10

Drath TechTree.XML
ExtremeColonization
-CanBeTraded to 0. Prevents MASSIVE techtrade exploit due to AIValue -10

Yor TechTree.xml
-Soil Enhancement Removed AIValue 45
-Habitat Improvement Removed AIValue 45
-Terraforming Removed AIValue 35
-Artificial Gravity AIValue 60
-Xeno Engineering AIValue 60

Korath TechTree.XML
-Added OShea's government descriptions. Can no longer be traded.

Drengin TechTree.XML
-Added OShea's government descriptions. Can no longer be traded.

PlanetaryImprovements.XML

EyesOfTheUniverse
-F_AbilityFactor removed
-AbilityAmount 0 to 6

StarbaseModules.XML

SingularityWeapon Module enabled
-AttBeam from to much to 7
-AttMissile from to much to 7
-AttMassDriver from to much to 7

Results of Optimization

Yor
No longer skip Artificial Gravity and it's follow up techs. They grab their farms and +pop tech and efficiency studies. All in all they do a decent job.

Torians
No changes needed.

Arceans
No changes needed.

Altarians
With their unique techtree placed after Temples their research is much more balanced. They get the Bioshere Modulator quickly enough to use it.

Drengin
No changes needed.

Terran
No changes needed.

Korx
No changes needed.

Drath
Seem to like their changes

Thalan
No changes needed.

Iconians
No changes needed.

Korath
No changes needed.

Krynn
No changes needed.

I took a peek at some AI's economical performances and it seems the -25% espionage penalty is working as intended.

*I found it impossible to get the Altarian's to research XenoMysticism at the right time. Gaunathor gave the techs a gigh AIValue but this pulled the Altarians away from Artificial Gravity and they would end up with Unimaginable Destruction, Doomrays while still using Basic Factory. After moving XenoMysticism all sorts of wonderful things began to happen. The Drath had the same problem, but no more.

Anyway, I hope you like this update because at this point I wouldn't know what to change. We've already started to polish by adding description, doing a spot of optimization, etc.

One thing that bugs me is that AIP11 doesn't research it's military starbase technology. It doesn't like the Starbase category. On the other hand it is much to fond of the Military category so I'm a bit hesitant to change it back as it might result in very impressive military starbases with extremely lackluster ships.

If I recall correctly there used  to be modules for military starbases spread around in the techtrees but they were either removed or placed in the Military Starbase branch.

Also I removed a few groups. I like groups when the techs are descriptbed as Basic Tech A, Advanced Tech A or Tech 1, Tech 2, etc. But when the displaynames vary I like them to be visible. They tell the player something so hiding them makes no sense. They also show improvements better.

Cheers,

A.

1. Drath changes. In our out? /// Me like
2. Planetary Invasion unlocked by Space Weapons. In or out? /// In
3. Space Defense unlocked by Space Weapons. In or out? /// In, I have seen my share of Defenders with only defences on board
4. Military Starbases as Industry to keep research costs down. Good or bad idea? /// I never build them, no opinion.
5. Military Starbases unlocked by Space Weapons. In or out?  /// See above
6. -25 Espionage. Good. Bad. Does it need a higher value? /// It's good for start. Maybe this can be tweaked a little later.
7. Korx colonization after espionage change. Better. Same. Worse. Do they need work or do we leave them as is? /// Maybe just a small buff to their innate trade ability? No idea, their AI will always be idiotic with freighters etc.

<Culture ID="StarRep">
<DisplayName>Administrative Slavelings</DisplayName>
<Description>Improving our economy whether they like it or not.</Description>

I forgot to write this one down, Silas as always did a great job on the descriptions, but I don't feel this one in between those <description> tags fit. Maybe something like this:

<Culture ID="InterGov">
<DisplayName>Administrative Slaveling Theory</DisplayName>
<Description>Research into specialized slavelings...</Description>

<Culture ID="StarRep">
<DisplayName>Administrative Slavelings</DisplayName>

<Description>...and put them to work!</Description>

Changes in bold red.

Now I don't know what combination I pressed, but I had Thalans written down to the last tech and was applying finishing touches. And then my browser gone back to previous page. I'll try to write it down again as now I have better idea what it should be, but still it may take me some time and I don't know if I'll be able to finish all the tree or first 1-3 techs.

Thanks everyone for your time, input and effort. I agree with Silas, it's time to play, have fun and apply some spit and polish here and there.

As to the version. Here's a file with a proper name and version. Community Update V5 - Beta 1. This the SAME version as the previous one, just with a better name.

Marvin, can you update the link in the original post. Thanks.

Link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dafc9oj2us82u9u/Community%20Update%20V5%20-%20Beta%201.zip?dl=0

Sounds promising. I think the armed fighters are the result of moving PI and a few other techs to Space Weapons. Good to know that works. I'm looking forward to actually playing a game tonight .

<Culture ID="InterGov">
<DisplayName>Ripples Of The Past</DisplayName>
<Description>Allows us to start restoration of our governing structure.</Description>
<Details>Back in our space-time, we tried to equip our strike force coming to this galaxy with best possible equipment. But because of it's advancement compared to local technology, we ran into problem of reproducing it on larger scale. From shortages of energy supply for our Industrial Matrices, to inability to accomodate to live on planet surfaces, we had to redesign and modify most of the tools we use.||All this setbacks slowed down our expansion, and because we never anticipated our mission will take more then couple of months, we find ourselves living in opposition to our old ways. If we designate some of our spare research resources, we will find a way of restore them.</Details>

<Culture ID="StarRep">
<DisplayName>Stellar Hive</DisplayName>
<Description>Allows us to set up provisional House system.</Description>
<Details>Where we believe every individual's social class is determined by birth, most races is this galaxy don't follow caste system and try to force equality among their people. This difference is most likely caused by their lack of geneticaly inherited knowledge.||Our people can access the memories of their ancestors, but only if they are in vicinity of 8-dimensional chemical element called Xithridium that doesn't exist naturally in this universe. Luckily, this element is also central to our manufacturing process and some of it have been brough with us. Any volunteers that are proven to descend from one of the noble Houses can be given trace amounts of Xithridium to help them imitate leaders of old and help us bring hierarchy back to normal.||Splitting power between them will bring our governing struture back to the way it was and benefit our economy, but also runs the risk of rebellion, so keeping people happy should be our main concern.</Details>

<Culture ID="StarDem">
<DisplayName>Interstellar Hive</DisplayName>
<Description>Form the Council of the Houses.</Description>
<Details>The Houses play integral role in ruling hierarchy in our native space-time. Each of many noble Houses is ruled by single Queen, called Matriarch. And each one of them excels in one area more then others. Back when we where still primitive, or rather at the level of other races of this galaxy, Matriarchs fought against each other over resources and territory. But then, unexpected happend. A male Thalan gathered his own army and subjugated Queens one by one, increasing his power with every conquer. Finally, he united whole of our people under his leadership. He knew he will not live forever, and Xithridium wasn't known yet, so in order to keep Queens from fighting after his demise, he created a Council, and gave each Matriarch equal rights and territory. Or so say the legends, but Council never failed it's purpose. Today we do the same, and form first Council of the Houses of this space-time.</Details>

<Culture ID="StarFed">
<DisplayName>Galactic Hive</DisplayName>
<Description>Improve communication between our people.</Description>
<Details>Living on the planet surface is more troublesome for us then other species. As we communicate through pheromones and not sound waves, we lack infrastructure that can quickly distribute them like we done it on our space stations. This complex molecules convey thougths so effectively, that one whiff can tell another Thalan exaclty what another think.||We researched portable analyzers of our pheromone scent that can trasmit the information to every individual in range without mistranslations. While costly, they improved cooperation between our people and allowed us to work more efficiently.</Details>

I don't know if that much exposition is good for 'mysterious Thalans', but that's what I came up with, so tell me what you think I'm gonna play new version in the mean time.

I borrowed DisplayName's from Gaunathors propositions on page 2, I hope he doesn't mind.

And what about those bonuses from government tech for Yor, any plans for them? So far they only get +economy for high research investment. 

Edit: Bug report - spoiler tag on forum doesn't work lol

Test game: Large map. Decent amount of planets and stars.

Playing race: Altarians

Others: Drengin, Korath, Arceans, Thalan, Terrans

Difficulty: Crippling.

Tech trading, Tech stealing allowed, SA's enabled.

First game:

Lost the colony rush. 

Second game:

Did a lot better on the colony rush but it was competative. My south border is dominated by the Terrans who have dozens of worlds. To the north west are the Drengin, north east, the Korath. Both hate my guts. The Thalans were trapped in a corner and only managed to grab two worlds but some how manage to survive. The Arceans did alright.

The Korath declared war on me very early. If not for the Terran's helping me out I would have been in a lot of trouble (hurray for Super Organizer). The Drengin joined in on the war but the Terrans kept them busy. I managed to build up a meager defence fleet and grabbed Medium Scale Building. I designed ships to deal with the Korath, who used missiles and the Drengin, who use beams.

I'm pretty sure I would have been done for if not for my massive south neighbour the Terrans but as the game progresses my relation to them has gone from close to neutral and I fear I will have to deal with them at some point. The Terrans still use small ships but they have enourmous amounts of them and a scary amount of transports.

Slowly I invaded neighbouring Korath and Drengin planets but it's slow going as both have superiour soldering to me. It's an interesting game and it hinges on the fact that the Terran's haven't declared war on me.

Things I noticed.

Miniaturization seems a bit weak. I''ve researched 3 levels and build the Hyper Shrinker and only now do I have the feeling it's doing something. Grabbing a new weapon really is the best way to up your damage. I'm not completely sure how I feel about this. It definately puts the AI an player on a level playing field on the other hand I used to love miniaturization.

The Drengin use frigates but lack the logistics to do anything interesting with them. They seem content to attack with them as solo ships. I haven't spotted a Korath frigate either but their small ships are well armed and if not for my superior defenses my frigates would have been doomed.

The Korath/Drengin are still stuck on Slave pits. If not for that I would have been in a heap of trouble. I'm not sure if this is a problem they seem to have no problems cranking out ships and my obvervasions might be lopsided due to the Terran intervention.

I also feel hull planting techs and +hp techs are to cheap. I got +10 health in a single turn which seems to be a little to quick for something that powerful.

At some point I placed sensors on my warships to get a better look at my surroundings. They were big! and I truly think this is a good thing. No stacking cheap sensors on your warships. If you want a good look at the battlefield sensor ships will be essential. To compensate I build Eye's of the universe (+6). A welcome addition to my sensor range but if I want more I'll need to put more sensors on my ships. Again, a good thing.

Conclusion:

We did well. The game is a proper challenge and doesn't feel either slow or rushed. There's a real incentive to do clever things to boost research (which I did) and you have to pick your techs carefully since at crippling the AI has no trouble out reseaching you and it's a total idiot with what it picks.

I'm not sure if I'll finish this game. I might go for another with a different civ to get a different feel for the game.

I hope the rest of you had a similar positive experience.

Truth fully, I'm not sure they need them. They didn't have governent tech at all in the original game so giving them more eco or prod seems a bit to much.

OShea I loved your Yor and Drengin/Korath descriptions so I'm really sorry to say I'm not sold on the Thalan ones. You metioned using their advanced computing systems to decide on a controlling party. Perhaps you can take it a bit further? What if the Thalans mimic a senate by simulating one. There's precidence for this. Their research is fully automated and uses advanced algorithems to decide on improvements. Perhaps their government could be simulated as well?

Your descriptions like your previous one's don't lack creativity, far from it. I'm just not sure they fit.

The Thalan in the trailer might be using a universal translator to speak. In Twilight it's mentioned no one's knows how they speak. Also AWESOME TRAILER. Believe it or not I hadn't seen it.

Personally I wasn't sure I went in good direction with Thalans, so I'll try again tomorrow and see what happens. 

Only 60 turns in, Iconians seem to be behind in everything. Thalans, Torians, Drengin and Drath all have some military and seem to research well, I haven't met Arceans and Korx yet as they are on opposite side of the large galaxy, but Iconians have no tech to trade with me and their research, economy and industry ratings are bottom low. I'll send some scouts in their direction and see what is their problem. From Influence tab on the map it seems they must have grabbed a couple of worlds, so they didn't fail in colonizing. 

Anyway time for me to go to bed, so goodnight

Yeah that was my suggestion. Early on miniaturization felt much to powerful. It's still powerful, just not as powerful. Perhaps it's simply a matter of getting used to the new values. I'm going to be very, very careful with buffing them. Like money, the player can use the extra space to come up with some very creative ways of destroying others.

Speaking of money. While setting up my test games I spend some points on morale and economics and I still had points to burn on soldering, weapons, defenses. That seems a tad bit over the top. Right now economy/morale is set up as follows:

10/20/30 for 1/2/3 points. That's pretty cheap for what are arguably the most powerful stats in the game. I like the values, just not the point costs so here's a few ideas.

1. Leave as is and move on, hey it's an idea and an option.
2. 2/4/6. A simple 2x solution.
3. 1/3/6. A cheap start but it gets expensive quickly.

Thoughts? Ideas? Opinions?

No... damn it now I'll have to check them all! Silas the old values make perfect sense from a design perspective.

Take a look:

The more morale you want the more you pay for it. If you want 20% you'll pay through the nose! That makes the higher values point sinks. What else is a player going to invest them in? Low values come cheap, high values are expensive. but if you pick for cheaper low values you'll turn your civ into a jack-of-all trades but a master of none. That rarely works. Specialization is usually key to victory and generally more interesting to play.

Sinking 3 points into morale knowing 10 is the better deal hurts. Sure you get 20 morale instead but you know you're getting a lousy deal point for point. And that is the point. It provokes thought. 

Economy would look something like this:

As you mentioned economy isn't as effective in the early game which is probably why SD allowed the 30% bonus. In the example above getting 30% economy comes at a very steep price.

In my opinion this is how ability values should be set up. Big costs big. That's how tech research is set up as well. If the first tech in a chain gives you 10 and costs a 100 tp then chances are the second one is 15 and costs 500.