Project origins
There was some discussion on the Steam forums as to how to get an update to GalCiv 2 out there.
Draginol popped in and suggested that an update incorporating the expertise of the fanbase would be the best way forward. A bugfixing update would soon be on the way.
I sent a message to the other tech tree modders, and luckily secured the assistance of Gaunathor, and later MabusAltarn, as well as some dedicated members of the community who posted some valuable feedback. They have been instrumental to the success of the community update, and I'm glad to have played a small part along the way.
Progress report
The community update has been released as part of a rollout of Stardock products on GOG.com and is also available as an opt-in beta on Steam!
Downloads and links
Issues which can't be fixed with XML manipulation.
The file archive folder, hosted by MabusAltarn.
The list of bugs which can't be fixed with XML manipulation.
The spreadsheet of data changes, hosted by MabusAltarn.
Initial discussion on Steam forums
Credits for community member and Stardock staff involvement
Gaunathor - Tech tree changes, descriptions and standardisation. AI value adjustment. Planetary improvement changes and fixes. Keeper of the change logs, spreadsheet and file archive.
MarvinKosh - Typo and description changes (English.str, Techtree.xml). Additional spreadsheet analysis.
DARCA1213 - Tech descriptions.
MabusAltarn - UI changes, tech tree changes, AI value adjustment, keeper of the file archive, spreadsheet and change logs.
Maiden666 - Suggestions for improvement (technology victory bonuses).
OShee - tech descriptions.
SiliasOfBorg - tech descriptions.
Frogboy - executable code changes.
transforming the percentage bonus from eyes into a flat sensor-increase. as you can see in the example this has the advantage that you will receive a tremendous boost if you are weak in that area. that's when you need eyes the most.
but how much it ultimately should be is a question of personal preference. maybe other players would like to get always caped after they build it (IIRC that was the situation in vanilla)
hmm I have no trouble with them. on battle of the gods soil enh/habitat/terraf aren't given but that's all I could notice by having a short look
Bugfix for PoliticalParties.xml:
http://www.xup.to/dl,17297009/PoliticalParties.xml/
The penalty for Mercantile was still -50 espionage
I've also removed the -2 sensors penalty from Technologists. At -1 sensors the game becomes unplayable.
Is that the right file? It's identical to mine.
<PoliticalParty InternalName="Mercantile"><ID>5</ID><DisplayName>Mercantile</DisplayName><Description>The Mercantilists understand the true power of hyperdrive - trade. Exporting goods and culture to other civilizations will make them more dependent on our prosperity for their own success. Mercantilists receive a 50% boost to trade and they enjoy a 10% discount when buying ships or improvements.</Description><Model>gfx/Government/Mercantile.png</Model><OpposingParty>Federalists</OpposingParty><Bonus>10:50 17:10</Bonus><Penalty>0:-20</Penalty><ColorRed>219</ColorRed><ColorGreen>136</ColorGreen><ColorBlue>28</ColorBlue></PoliticalParty>
<Penalty>0:-20</Penalty> isn't this a 20 penalty to economy?
I think he means the campaign.
This part should be different:
<PoliticalParty InternalName="Federalists"><ID>0</ID><DisplayName>Federalists</DisplayName><Description>The Federalists are big believers in having the government be somewhat distributed. They tend to be fairly expert in internal financial matters. Selecting this party will give your civilization a 20% boost to your economy.</Description><Model>gfx/Government/Federalists.png</Model><OpposingParty>Mercantile</OpposingParty><Bonus>0:20</Bonus><Penalty>10:-50 17:-10</Penalty><ColorRed>59</ColorRed><ColorGreen>133</ColorGreen><ColorBlue>202</ColorBlue></PoliticalParty>
and this one:
<PoliticalParty InternalName="Industrialist"><ID>6</ID><DisplayName>Industrialist</DisplayName><Description>The Industrialists are the antithesis of Technologists. Industrialists receive a bonus to production capacity.</Description><Model>gfx/Government/Industrialist.png</Model><OpposingParty>Technologists</OpposingParty><Bonus>6:20 7:20</Bonus><Penalty>8:-20</Penalty><ColorRed>210</ColorRed><ColorGreen>210</ColorGreen><ColorBlue>210</ColorBlue></PoliticalParty>
when you loose a vote the game works in some way like this:
- your own bonus is scrapped
- the penalty of your own political party tag is applied
- the penalty of your opposing party is applied (*)
you get 3 total penalties.
the Federalists still had -50 espionage as penalty.
(*) that's why you can go negative in sensors easily. perhaps making the penalty only -1 sensors like it is in vanilla.
I want to share a pet peeve of mine.
It concerns the Drath.
/beginrant
Let's take a look at this civ. Their history is clear. They evolved on Altaria but because the Dark Mirthrillar (sp) Draginol crashlanded on Altaria a new species evolved right out of the blue. The Altarians outbred and out fought the Drath and nearly drove them to extinction as a Dread Lord fueled war nearly tore the planet apart.
The Drath were ultimately saved by the Arnor and given a new home world where they grew into the Drath we know today. A cunning species that manipulates others from the shadows. They have a hand in everything. War's, politics. All of it.
Can someone explain to me how the hell these bastards have a good alignment. Sure, they might not strangle a kitten on live TV but they MAKE MONEY BY HAVING OTHER PEOPLE KILL EACH OTHER.
Good?! Seriously? How does that work!?
When they were introduced in Galciv 1's expansion alongside with the Korx they were EVIL and judging from the tech they get they haven't exactly changed their ways. Their descriptions are even strangers. They got kicked off their planets but now they're past that?! Genes travel through generations but so does anger and resentment.
Which is more interesting in a story:
1) "We suffered, we recovered and we don't hold a grudge." /hug /kiss.
Or
2) "We suffered, we recovered and now there will be hell to pay."
Yeah I think I know which one will get the movie deal but... wait what?! We went with option 1? But that's about as exciting as the ending of the Twilight saga!
Lame...
Their techs, Precursor History, etc, etc, doesn't make sense either. The Drath KNOW what happened because they were ducking shells and bullets. And if you're 20 feet tall, that's quite the achievement. The Altarians don't recall what happened because they were to busy blowing the shit out of one another.
It also makes no sense from a design stand point. Why on earth do the Drath need +weapon power? Do they start with a penalty? No. Then why do they get it and on top of that make piles and piles of blood money?!
Because of bloody copy & paste.
The same goes for temples and shrines. The Altarians are a spiritual race. They're Good. They got blue shiny tattoo's and a holier than thou attitude. So yeah. I can imagine a temple or two popping up on their worlds.
Do the Drath strike anyone as the praying type? Or as the preying type.
I want to turn the Drath into an neutral race. It justs fits them better. The Terrans, the hero's of the story, become a good race to keep the balance of good/neutral/evil.
This has some interesting implications. Neutral races tend to stay out of of wars since they're not hated by either good or evil civs. This fits the Drath since they prefer to stay out of conflicts and manipulate from a distance. The Terrans will be the dashing hero's people expect them to be.
Since most people pick the Terrans when they pick up the game. By making them a good race they'll be at constant odds with the Drengin, Korath and Yor, the antagonists of the game. Conflict will emerge. Conflict is good. Conflict is engaging.
The Drath on the other hand will need to undergo some changes but mostly, stuff needs to go. To me, it makes no sense that they have Altarian techs or interests. Their species shared a homeworld a very long time ago like the Yor and Iconians but no one can argue that the Yor and Iconians have techtree's as similar as the Drath and Altarians. The Drengin and Korath are a different matter. Their split up was very recent and the main story arc for Dark Avatar.
Implemented.
I like. Their SA cannot in any way, shape or form be considered "good":
Species A: "Hi Species B, you're pretty cool."
Species B: "Right back at you, Species A! Let's trade and have cultural exchanges!"
<Drath walks by>
Species A: "DIE Species B! Your days are numbered!"
Species B: "Take that you alien filth!"
As for the rest of the changes... I need a coffee. They sound good on paper, especially the Eyes being a straight +bonus instead of a % one.
Thanks
Hey guys,
Just starting to play Gal Civ 2 again and trying to actually understand the details/numbers. Anyway I was wondering about this mod...
1. Is there a post somewhere that tells me a basic description of the mod? I know its suppose to re-balance and fix bugs but thats it. Does it add any extra content like events or anomalies?
2. Are there any other mods that don't conflict with this mod that are a good addition to supplement the community update? Maybe graphics mods or mods that add more events or anomalies?
3. Im trying to understand how multiple mods work together. In the game you point to a single directory to be used as the mod directory. So everything inside will be targeted as mod files right? If I decide to use multiple mods by dumping into the same directory they might conflict/overwrite each other so I may get partial mod experiences?
Thanks.
Xtil
1. New technologies were introduced and a few new structures. Other than that, no.
2. All mods conflict. You can't combine two.
3. That won't work. Each mod stands on it's own and was designed to run on it's own. Don't copy one mod over the other it will break the mod and lead to a very unsatisfying experience.
I'll see about that then.
Anyone else have an opinion on a redone Drath? I have a few ideas in mind and frankly, I can't wait to get started.
Maiden, Hyperion is what people know from galciv, its still that way in galciv3 for all the improvements, its dumb to change it. Eyes are great, they allow you to see like the AI after a certain point in the game.
Neutral gets the same "- your ethical alignment" against good & evil as does evil get versus good and vice versa. There's no aggravation in there. That good is always battling versus evil etc is because of additional diplomatic penalties (see post above)
seems like my initial post got eaten by the forum trolls so, in short
I don't know if this would goof up the diplomacy part of the game which is responsible for the civs declaring war on one another.There are inter-ethical diplo-penalties installed whose function is to create resentment even if alot of mind-aliked civs have been created at a random map.For example Terrans are dis-trusted by Thalans. Now if you move Terrans into good then Thalans will act very aggressively because they now have an additional negative factor.Neutral alignment might be internally too homogenous. Ususally Drath can stay out of trouble and make others weak with their SA while they profit from it. However, one thing that actually counters Draths is SuperOrganizer, because it drags Drath into wars, sometimes even into some they have created by themself. That throttle would be missing as well.
besides, I wonder if this will be approved at all by SD?
I doubt it. Custom races also declare was on each other.
There are inter-ethical diplo-penalties installed whose function is to create resentment even if alot of mind-aliked civs have been created at a random map.For example Terrans are dis-trusted by Thalans. Now if you move Terrans into good then Thalans will act very aggressively because they now have an additional negative factor.
I don't see the problem, really. The Thalans talk big but rarely act on it.
Why not? We changed a ton of other things and they massively impact how the game is played. Heck, they might not like the -25 espionage everyone got either. Let QA decide if they don't like it we'll roll back the changes. I got a back up.
The Drath will still play the same they'll just have techs more befitting of them. Don't you feel that Drath in their old form are a tad bit overpowered in the hands of a player?
I'm done with the first draft of the Drath.
Link : https://www.dropbox.com/s/z9bfosvfquahju0/Community%20Update%20-%20Drath%20Redone.zip?dl=0
This is merely an experiment. If you folks don't like it I'll roll back to the previous version.
Changes include:
Alignment set to 45 from 75.
Removed:Xeno Mystesism and it's follow up techs.
Added:
Saurian Cunning. +25 diplo
Saurion Intimidation. +20 influence
Minor Hatchling Mount. +15 morale. Unlocked by way of the drath
Hatchling Mount. +25 morale structure, +10% morale civ wide. Similar to Temples.
And made a few changes to their Journey Begins opening.
Terran:
Alightment from 50 to 75.
Changes here to stay:
PI unlocked by Space Weapons
Military Starbases unlocked by Space Weapons. Set to Defense Tag but I might switch it to Industry. The tech cost becomes outrageous when it's tagged as Weapons.
Planetary Defense unlocked by Space Defeneses.
Basically you get a weapon before any side tech like invasion, planetary defense, etc.
Question.
Thalans on normal Attack/Defense modules. Stay or go?
If you vote go, present an alternative that isn't overpowered.
Thanks in advance.
<Culture ID="InterGov"><DisplayName>Administrative Slavelings Theory</DisplayName><Description>Research into mentaly capable slavelings.</Description><Details>[YOURSHORTCIVNAME] for hundreds of years were perfecting genetic engineering to improve their workforce. One of our scientists made a recent proposal in this area. He has already been sent to the Arena along with his team, for not coming up with this terrific idea sooner.||His theory suggests that by improving cognitive capabilities of certain slave specie, we can breed slaves that will tirelessly work day and night in our economy sector, looking for possible savings and ways to maximize our intra-planetary trade and logistics.||It works by implementing them with parts of our own modified genome. Our people can sense suffering and anguish in others, but new slave specie would sense happiness instead. That way they will be motivated by any improvements they make and won't cause changes that can anger their supervisors.||By the way, here are tickets for tonight's fight in the Arena!</Details>
<Culture ID="StarRep"><DisplayName>Administrative Slavelings</DisplayName><Description>We did it! First breed of new slaves is already working on our budget. Someone in genetics lab thought it will be good if we produce more distinctive batches of the new species, to bring more variety and increase income they can provide. To mock other races of the Galaxy, we segregated and named our creation after prominent political parties of their governments. As an unexpected result, they come to think you, [YOURLEADERNAME], are having a change of heart and want to bring more equality to [YOUREMPIRENAME]. Stupid weaklings, don't know a slave will always be a slave!||We also discovered that if those slaves are around unhappy population, they are prone to make costly mistakes and wreck havock in our administration logs. So keeping people happy will make them more reliable.</Description><Details></Details>
<Culture ID="StarDem"><DisplayName>Enhanced Ambassadors</DisplayName><Description>Send better representatives to other races.</Description><Details>We love to enslave and use other races. But our tendencies to conquer them can put us in disadvantage, as no one can battle on too many fronts. That's where diplomacy comes into play. But because of our history and clearly aggressive nature, it's not our strong side. That's where our belief in predisposition comes into play.||We select individuals among our people that are cursed with milder appearance. After that, it is only a matter of time spent in torture room to break their spirit, so not only they appear harmless, they are also more docile. Those "lucky" citizens are later sent to replace our current ambassadors. Galaxy has never seen smooth talkers like this.||Also, our experience in slicing, dicing, combining and replicating DNA let us refine breeding of administrative slavelings, boosting their productivity and our economy further.</Details>
<Culture ID="StarFed"><DisplayName>Hyper Incubation</DisplayName><Description>Multiply new workforce by advancements in incubation procedures.</Description><Details>Disadvantage of recombining such complex DNA is that you cannot cover for everything. Our new slavelings don't live long, and because they were not designed to be sentient, they do not reproduce. To counter that, we developed new ways of accelerating incubaction periods. At this point, further upgrades in their intelligence can result in them becoming self-aware, so it is safer to just increase their numbers.||At the same time, some of the extra money they generated was spent on more sophisticated torture chambers. As you can guess, our ambassadors are now more efficient in convincing the enemy of how good we are.</Details>
I just finished writing this and I haven't proof read it, but most likely someone else needs to correct grammar anyway. I couldn't think of other way to keep influence and diplo bonuses, as well as inherent economy from new gov type, and keeping Drengin/Korath as dictatorships. I borrowed heavily from their techtrees, ability to sense pain, genetic manipulations etc., so it shouldn't be against the lore.
Drath are better on neutral, it bothered me as well, I'll download that and see how the new tech tree looks like.
Back to Terran, I'm not certain they should be considered a "good" race. Thalans mention in their tech tree:
You don't need to be Good to fight Evil. In DnD, theres even more conflict between Lawful Evil and Chaotic Evil then between Lawful Good and Lawful Evil. Just my 2 cents
@OShea.
Love the descriptions and I think they convey a good reason why the Drengin would get better in diplomacy. Nice job!
As to the Drath. Well I had a lot more planned than I put in. In my first draft I removed all their eco tech except Xeno Economics and I had three war profit techs instead. That really didn't work but I'm not unhappy how they turned out.
One of the better descriptions in the game. I also like "There's a steel fist hidden inside their silk glove."
Did you know it was the Drath that were behind it? The Xendar were manipulated by the Drath and the Korx were involved as well. It was during this conflict that Korx mercenaries managed to steal the designs for the HyperDrive.
Yes humans are ruthless when motivated but bombarding a colony will do that to a people. I'd don't particularly like the humans as a "good" race but they seem the best fit. With the Drath on neutral we have 4 evil civs, 5 neutrals, and three good ones.
Who else could we turn into a good civ? The Arceans don't fit, they pride themselves on their neutrality. The Krynn? Maybe but in Galciv 3 they're a crime syndicate and their "convert or die" attitude doesn't seem suitable to a good alignment. The Thalan certainly might work but their intent to stop humanity at all costs doesn't really strike me as good nor kind. Still, they are very motivated because they're convinced humanity will bring the downfall of space, time and existance. So the Thalans. Maybe.
Which leaves us with humanity. My main reason to shift from them from good to neutral is motivated by the fact that people think of themselves as good, not neutal. So yeah, to me they seem the obvious choice.
PS> I know of DnD and the Lawful Evil, Neutral, Good and the eternal war that rages in the DnD version of hell. I never DnD much but I played: Baldur's Gate, Balduers Gate II + expansions, Plancescape Torment, etc. Good times
Anyway, I'm calling it a day. G'night everyone.
I'll give the new Drath a shot this evening.
Stay, but bring back a moderate Hyperion attack. Hear me out:
IMHO we need to fall somewhere between the vanilla Thalan (which, recall, is "only" 24/24/24 def) and Guanathor's god-tier modules.
The crux of the matter is that Thalan Hyperion starbases att/def modules were so good that their SBs became hideous MMR sinks.
I think the easiest (?) way to rectify this is to give them the a nice *attack* boost with Hyperion Starbases, but not defense. That is, put SingularityWeapon back in, but with vastly reduced numbers. That way they are nowhere near as much an MMR sink but they're still pretty scary.
Number-wise, I'm thinking maybe a bit more than BS4, which doesn't even appear for other races for another 8000 TP; ie 20,32,24. Since this is an "extra" module that will eventually give them a non-trivial endgame bonus on their SBs, I think making it fairly expensive (300 bc?) would be reasonable.
There's my nickel. Take it or leave it.
edit: I take too long to write my posts. OShee, love the Drengin stuff, will run it through my native-english-filter asap.
double edit: I think putting Humans on good is quite reasonable.
Thank you
I didn't know about Drath involvement, I never player original Galactic Civilizations. Now that you mention it, Terrans may not be that bad. Although you are right, Thalans would somehow fit Good at the same time, as defenders of the Universe. I don't have an opinion on that anymore, so I'll let you decide.
I had a look at the Iconians, and well, their economic tech tree suggests that they are abandoning communism in favour of capitalism, so if we change their governments tech, this should be rewritten also. Something about better computing leading to more efficient central planning and logistics on their world - I believe those 2 factors would benefit communist economy more then shopping centers. Problem is I don't know what kind of government they currently are - is it dictatorship, fascism, or some kind of militaristic government, or highly independent individuals? I guess the latter, everyone for themselves, but content to work for good of whole nation/race. I'm not sure as I never seen it mentioned anywhere and they don't have any good descriptions of their culture.
In the meantime, I'll try to come up with ideas for Thalans. Insectoid - yes, Hive - yes, organic buildings - yes, but even then they are so weird I don't know if they follow our stereotypes of "bugspecies". Or rather if they should. They need something really unique.
Edit: Ah, so many repetitions in my descriptions: "That's where diplomacy comes into play. But because of our history and clearly aggressive nature, it's not our strong side. That's where our belief in predisposition comes into play." Looks and sounds bad. Could fix it by replacing first one with "matters most". Oh well, lets see what Silas make out of it first
I didn't play GC1 much either but I do love game lore
As to the Iconians. All I know is that their current form of government is a dictatorship but not in the way we think of it. The reason they're behind in commerce is because the idea of selling, owning or making profit is alien to them. They litteraly have no economy on New Iconia.
They have everything they need so why want more?
As to the Thalans. Fun fact. In Dark Avatar (and maybe Dread Lords?) the Thalans were refered to as having a hive mind but not in Twilight of the Arnor. In Twilight where it's stated that the Thalan are not drones and each Thalan is an individual. No one has any idea how they communicate with each other or even how they operate the Universal Translator.
Personally, I always imagined them to rather tiny. Say, one meter high but no more than that. Details on them are sketchy though and if I had to take a wild guess how they communicate I'd say pheromonal. Come to think of it, I may have written that for the APT2.0 history techs. Hmmm now that I think of it, yes, I did.
My idea was Thalans communicate solely using pheromones. That's what ants do but in the Thalans it has evolved over time to a very effective form of communication. The way I imagied it a Thalans just needs one whiff of these pheromones and it knows exactly what the other Thalan tried to tell it. It's instant. There are no errors or mispronounciations. None. Best of all, no one can eaves drop on them. Worst of all, no one can understand them. Hence the diplo penalty.
Mind you this is just something I came up with to flesh them out a little bit for APT2. I hope it's useful to you.
Hmm, interesting. I can try to use idea of pheromones in some way.
I was thinking about describing their society as matriarchal and stuff, but with more modernish take. Basically royalty, based on medieval nobility with great houses ruled by Queens. This is a base on which diplomacy/influence/morale and parties can be worked with.
Second idea was Thalans using their computers to determine ruling party, just like their research is described, but this rules out any influence of morale, or at least I don't see any way it can progress, so I'll leave it unless someone else wants to take it further.
The reason they're behind in commerce is because the idea of selling, owning or making profit is alien to them.Sounds like hardcore communists :> Isn't Chinese communism different then what was in Russia? With loads of capitalist influence? This could be potential path of self improving communism. I can work with that, providing Wikipedia tells me more about Chinese economy.
It is actually possible to use, for example, the High Resolution Grpahics mod with the community update, if you're selective. I typically only use the improved stars, nebulae, tech grid and terrain query textures.
Also, you could use the weapon sounds from Space Weapons Fix Mod since most of them use the vanilla filenames.
Overwriting or merging XML files from one mod with another is not recommended, though.
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