Project origins
There was some discussion on the Steam forums as to how to get an update to GalCiv 2 out there.
Draginol popped in and suggested that an update incorporating the expertise of the fanbase would be the best way forward. A bugfixing update would soon be on the way.
I sent a message to the other tech tree modders, and luckily secured the assistance of Gaunathor, and later MabusAltarn, as well as some dedicated members of the community who posted some valuable feedback. They have been instrumental to the success of the community update, and I'm glad to have played a small part along the way.
Progress report
The community update has been released as part of a rollout of Stardock products on GOG.com and is also available as an opt-in beta on Steam!
Downloads and links
Issues which can't be fixed with XML manipulation.
The file archive folder, hosted by MabusAltarn.
The list of bugs which can't be fixed with XML manipulation.
The spreadsheet of data changes, hosted by MabusAltarn.
Initial discussion on Steam forums
Credits for community member and Stardock staff involvement
Gaunathor - Tech tree changes, descriptions and standardisation. AI value adjustment. Planetary improvement changes and fixes. Keeper of the change logs, spreadsheet and file archive.
MarvinKosh - Typo and description changes (English.str, Techtree.xml). Additional spreadsheet analysis.
DARCA1213 - Tech descriptions.
MabusAltarn - UI changes, tech tree changes, AI value adjustment, keeper of the file archive, spreadsheet and change logs.
Maiden666 - Suggestions for improvement (technology victory bonuses).
OShee - tech descriptions.
SiliasOfBorg - tech descriptions.
Frogboy - executable code changes.
I've also done some tweaking to the propulsion line. All the AIValues were still set at 10. I've taken the values from APT2.0 and I'll run a few tests.
Minor update. Some lines still had their AI value set to all 10. I have adressed this. The Yor now run AIP11.
TechTree.XML
StarRepAI 10 to 20
StarDemAI 10 to 30
NewPropulsionAI 10 to 15
Ion DriveAI 10 to 20
ImpulseDriveAI 10 to 30
Impulse Drive Mark IIAI 10 to 12
Impulse Drive Mark IIIAI 10 to 12
Warp DriveAI 10 to 30
Warp Drive IIAI 10 to 4
CollectiveManufacturing2AI 10 to 20
No feature lockdown, it makes no sense. Too much is still bringing worked on.
Also I am too inexperienced to change the hardcoded data, it would take SD a hour to download the tools like I did and change it (like the AI building to many farms), instead one last plea to anyone who knows dll files and more C++ then me??!?! Its not working out for me. :/
Mabus, that is brilliant!!!!!
Why not add a cost to mining asteroids?
Altarians have to much luck, with the bonus, the political party, the 20% from techs and 50% from tech victory gives them 120%!
Overall the patch is awesome, sad I keep having to start a new game...but then again I was losing. :3
DARCA
Minior update.
Advanced HullsAI 30 to 32. This nudges the AI into hull tech right from the start and it will grab MediumScaleBuilding soon after. Cost wise it's 1500 TP which is about as much as PI. More on this later
MediumScaleBuildingAI 30 to 40.
Basic LogisticsAI 30 to 32. Gives them just that little nudge for the AI to start researchign logistics.
In my current build AI's get frigates pretty quickly. The question is. Should they? Hulls were my biggest issue in APT2.0 because there's just no way to trigger them. In the end I left Advanced Hulls sitting on 30 and left it to a roll of the die. However, AIP8 also seems more keen to research hulls with this setup and I do believe this is a good thing.
AIP8 TechTrees
InterstellarConstructionAI set to -10. A hack that causes both AI's to research this very quickly.
I like how it's shaping up, now I just want to get AIP8 to research logistics since I value it over Miniaturization and they're already researching their engines rather well.
@DARCA Start in cheat mode and reveal the map with Ctrl+U. I find it helps with getting through the early game. Also, if the AI can challenge a player who can see where all the planets and resources are, then it must be doing well.
@MabusAltarn Looking good! Like I said in my last post, I was being put in my place by the Torians who had in fact researched logistics, as evidenced by their fleets of heavy fighters. I'm not at my desktop right now but I think that the route they take to logistics is a bit different? That could have something to do with it, I dunno.
And yes, getting to Medium Hulls is a good goal for the AI to aim for. Even with very basic weapons, they can pose a significant threat once there's enough logistics to fleet them up. Against races which don't yet have frigates, they are pretty decent right up until the point where they are badly outnumbered. They're also the first hull in the game which can make effective use of defences, so there's that too.
I've run a few test games with the new values for the Yor, and the research is mostly good. However, there are still a few issues. The AI sometimes researches Efficiency Studies and better Collectives way too late (2nd or 3rd year). Charging Stalks, on the other hand, are almost always neglected, or simply not researched at all. This is pretty bad, because the Yor economy relies on high population.
The worst part, however, is the way AIP 11 handles approval and the tax rate:
This is pretty much how every single one of my test games went. The way AIP 11 sets the tax rate and builds morale improvements prevents the population from growing. This cripples the Yor economy, because they have no other way to increase their income (at least not without tech trading), which cause them to not have enough money to fund all of their production. This makes them much weaker than they could be.
I know, that the Yor can make enough money to fund all of their production, and then some. They just can't in the hands of AIP 11.
@Marv.
Then it's settles. They'll get frigates sooner rather than later. The Torians run on AIP11 which research logistics. It's AIP8 that has difficulty with this.
@Gaunathor
My first Yor AIP11 was a little rough around the edges and I wasn't completely aware how their economy worked now. So, they need population and high morale. I think AIP11 needs different values for morale structures. I'll see what I can do.
I also have a few tricks I want to implement to get AIP8 to research logistics and miniaturization and someone needs to take a look at tech unlocked by Xeno Ethics. The AIValues are all set at 10.
Minor update.
I'm rethinking the Yor. I've made a few adjustments to great effect. I've toned down the food bonus on their stalks a little which does wonders for morale and is what AIP11 needs. Oh and it's making money, running it's industry at 100% and taxes set at 70%.
Looking good.
It does, but that doesn't help terraformed low-PQ worlds. AIP 11 just won't build morale improvements on them, no matter what.
Actually, AIP 8 did go after those techs in my test games.
Toned down? The food bonuses of the Stalks are specifically set so they increases food by 1mt, 2mt, and 3mt. Reducing them would mean that you require two Stalks before you get an increase in food. To be honest, I'd rather increase the morale bonus instead. Going from 10%, 20%, 30%, to 15%, 25%, 40%.
Well, speaking of "toned down", I did exactly that with the Defense Stations SB modules. The AI had a bit of a hard time cracking them. Instead, I've increased the HP of SBs to 150. That should increase the SBs survivability against the big guns later in the game.
I've also set the Starbase Militarization techs to Defenses/Starbase, and the AI doesn't research them at all. That's not the kind of "delay" I had in mind. Even increasing the AIValue to 30 didn't help. I'm considering to set Military Starbase Construction to Category Military again, with an AIValue of 5 for AIP 11, and 20 for AIP 8. Just so that the AI researches that one at least, and isn't wasting its time and money on building all the military SBs, for which it has no modules.
Here's a though. Add morale to their factories as well. 2 or 3% should do the trick and this will solve low morale on low PQ planets.
After all, wouldn't factories make machines happy?
The reason I toned down the food bonus was simple. Several high pop. worlds had low morale. Now the AI could have lowered the taxes but imo, running your empire between 70 and 79% taxation should be an end goal.
Getting there.
The Yor are all about efficiency. That makes them happy. However, adding a morale bonus to the Collectives doesn't sit right with me. The Collectives are already the best factories in the game. Plus, I don't know how the AI would react to that. If it will treat the Collectives as morale improvements (like it does the Charging Stalks), then that would make matters even worse. It's also pretty much guaranteed, that the AI will place the Collectives on approval bonus tiles, instead of the Stalks.
True, and the Yor can do that already. It's just the AI that has trouble with it.
Alright so no morale on factories. I'm not ready to give up just yet but maybe another race is a better fit for AIP11.
If I may give a suggestion. The Krynn could work on AIP11. Here's why.
They get a stupendous amount of morale bonus keeping them happy.Influence is their bread and butter. People = Influence.AIP11 loves biology which means. +pop and terraforming = more influence.
With a bit of tweaking we can force AIP11 to research the +influence tech as well. This will result in an AI race with a really, really large infuence sphere which might be interesting.
Yes, that could work. You just have to keep the Krynn morale/influence improvements in mind. Those are 1pp.
The Iconians could be another possibility. AIP 11s love for biology plays right into their SA. The only problem is, once again, approval. However, now that I changed the morale bonus of the Dream Conclaves back to its original value (and made a more powerful version as an upgrade), it should be easier to handle. Might be worth a try.
I like the Iconians and Krynn both as options. My experiments of the Yor are also yielding some interesting results. I got them to research their production, farms, and economy before they dive into their planetary improvement tree.
Updated version available on Google Drive. I think they're better off now.
Changes are:
PlanetaryImprovements.XML
Collective 1 to 4AI 20 to 10. They build enough this makes room for labs.
Stalks (both)Set morale equal to food bonus. 15, 25, 40.
Research MatrixAI 100 to 1000
Yor TechTree
ArtificialGravityID set to BiologyAI set to 15
PlanetaryImprovementsAI set to 35
Terraforming levels 1&2AI to 35
Xeno BiologyAI to 30
Xeno MedicineAI to 30
Fertility AccelerationAI to 25
Galactic WarfareRemoved Category Pure Research
Space MilitarizationRemoved Category Pure Research
Research CentersAI to 35. This makes sure they grab a spamable lab asap.
Collective Manufacturing 2 & 3AI to 100Category to Pure Research. This change ensures they go nuts when they grab lvl 1. Level 4 is much more expensive and excluded from changes.
Computational MatrixAI 20 to 50
Synthetic IngenuityAI 10 to 15
Efficiency Studies1AI 20 to 31
The Yor now grind through their economy, farms, +pop and manufacturing. Sometimes they wait for a while getting farms lvl 2 but they usually get them. I've made sure they get their terraforming levels asap since better planets mean higher morale and more room for farms, etc. They run their economy on high taxes and their planetary morale can be anywhere between 50 and a 100.
Personally? These guys scare me now. As soon as their must have tech is gone it's hulls, weapons, logistics and miniaturization and weapons.
Give them a whirl and let me know what you all think.
Link
Been doing some work. I got the AIP8's to research 3 levels of Logistics, I'm giving up on miniaturization since AIP8 research weapons a lot they'll increase in power that way.
I've set the AI of basic logistics to -10 (hack, but works) for all AIP8 techtrees. Enhanced and Advanced are industry/pure research. It works wonderfully and is quite reliable.
KrynnThe Krynn will push out a lot more influence now.
IconiansWill research their unique hulltech much sooner and much more reliably.
KorathGrab their farms ASAP and focus more on production and larger hulls.
Drengin.Grab their farms ASAP. Reduced the likelyhood they'll research their influence tech. They're drengin.
ToriansLooking good but they omit researching their super cheap +research tech. Testing with Pure research as category instead of research. We'll see.
Back to work.
New version out. I'm happy with it for the moment
AIP8 Logistics Fix
Basic LogisticsAI to -10
Enhanced LogisticsCategory to Pure ResearchID to Industry
Advanced LogisticsCategory to Pure Research ID to Industry
This gets AIP8 to 3 levels of logistics without trouble. Because basic logistics is still Purple the entire group appears as normal.
This fix was applied to great effect to all AIP8 techtrees.
XenoMystesismAI 15 to 20
XenoBrainWashingAI 20 to 5. Not their thing.
LawsOfKrynnAI 20 to 55
OrderOfKrynnAI 20 to 55
TheWayAI 20 to 55
InterstellarMissionariesAI 10 to 55Category Culture to Pure Research
KrynniacConversionAI 10 to 55Category Culture to Pure Research
KrynnianDisciplesAI 10 to 55Category Culture to Pure Research
XenoIntimidationAI 30 to 5
IndustrialStarbaseConstructionAI 10 to 15
OrganicMaterialsAI 20 to -10
OrganicHullsAI 30 to -10
SelfheaingHullsAI 30 to -10
XenoIndustrialTheoryAI 20 to 25
XenoFactoryConstructionAI 20 to 25
ManufacturingCentersAI 10 to 20
IndustrialSectorAI 10 to 5 to 10
Scientific Method ImplementationAI 25 to 35
Advanced PhilosohyCategory Research to Pure Research
Greater EnlightenmentCategory Research to Pure Research
Deep Level TrancesCategory Research to Pure Research
Exceptional ConsciencenessCategory Research to Pure Research
InvisibleHandAI 20 to 55
WarProfiteeringAI 35 to -10
WellnessFallsAI 30 to 35
DarkEnergyResearchAI 30 to 35Category Military to Pure Research. (This prevents research inflation... i think)
Krynn
StarFedAI to 55
Xeno Farm ConstructionAI to -10
Korath
InterstellarConstructionAI to 120
AdvancedHullsAI to 120
Medium Scale BuildingAI to 120
Artificial GravityAI to 20
Xeno EngineeringAI to 20
SlavePitsAI to 55
SlaveCanyonsAI to 120
EnhancedSlavelingsAI to 120
ArtificialSlavelingsAI to 120
Xeno Farm Construction IIAI to -10
SoilEnhancementAI 10 removed
HabitatImprovementAI 10 removed
TerraformingAI 10 removed
Drengin
Summary:
KrynnShould be annoying neighbours. They don't militarize as quick as the other but any planet in their territory will be difficult to keep.
KorathStill useless but at least they build up their planets better and they'll have some bigger ships to annoy you.
IconiansStrong. Very strong.
ThalanMeh. Thalans are hard to play so small wonder the AI has trouble too. They could really benefit from some +pop research and on occasion they do. If they grab enough planets they'll do well enough.
DrathWith some logistics under their belt they're doing much better. Once wars break out these guys will be dangerous.
KorxSeem alright and do what they need to do.
TerranAs generic as they come. All they needed was logistics. What does set the Terrans apart in play style? (I'm tempted to make them go nuts in their propulsion tech).
DrenginWicket now. They'll get all they needed just fine.
AltariansSeem to do well. They terraform properly and if they take the time to get into Xeno Mystesism they'll be well off.
Arceans*Sigh*. Do alright I suppose but it's their lack of planets that kill them. Personally, I'd give them much more +PQ tech to really turn them into a "turtle" race with immense fortress planets.
ToriansGet their +research tech now and a bit more morale certainly didn't hurt.
YorIt took a bit of doing but the Yor will generally get their farms and +pop tech before setting foot past Xeno Engineering.
All done. Have fun testing.
The Drengin need those techs to offset the influence penalty from the Slave Pits. Otherwise, their planets are too easy to flip.
As far as I know, the rate of inflation depends on the tech-branch, not the category. Weapons are affected the most, Defenses the least, and everything else is somewhere in the middle. (Edit: Though we could change Dark Energy Research back to Industry. This would reduce inflation.)
I've tested your previous changes to the Yor, and they worked pretty well. However, I do have some complaints:
1. The Yor didn't research Collective Manufacturing IV, Manufacturing Vortex, and Distributed Energy Matrix. The former isn't that bad, because Superior Collectives are still great factories. The latter two, however, mean a big loss for the Yor. They not only miss the two buildings which put their production through the roof, but also lose out on their production-assist SB modules.
2. The Yor barely built any Collectives. Iconia and some of the high-PQ planets had one or two on them. XTR-17 and the other terraformed low-PQ worlds were full of them. All other planets didn't have any.
3. The way AIP 11 placed (or rather "not placed") the Charging Stalks. However, I don't think there is anything we can do about that.
I'm going to test your new changes now.
Edit:
Those AIValues are still in the Korath tech tree.
Quoting Gaunathor, reply 3961. The Yor didn't research Collective Manufacturing IV, Manufacturing Vortex, and Distributed Energy Matrix. The former isn't that bad, because Superior Collectives are still great factories. The latter two, however, mean a big loss for the Yor. They not only miss the two buildings which put their production through the roof, but also lose out on their production-assist SB modules. CM4 needs a higher AIValue I suppose to force them to finish research it, that or a different category. I forced them to get 1, 2 and 3 ASAP but level 4 is much more expensive. Side note. I did see them research it on occasion.. Manufacturing Vortex and Distributed Energy Matrix I didn't touch which is probably why they were ignored. Should be easy enough to fix. Probably Economy as a category will do the trick. Quoting Gaunathor, reply 3962. The Yor barely built any Collectives. Iconia and some of the high-PQ planets had one or two on them. XTR-17 and the other terraformed low-PQ worlds were full of them. All other planets didn't have any. I think that's an AIP11 trick. It turns small words into factories and later terraforms them. I guess the Collective's need a bit higher AI than I gave them. Currently they're equal to the regular factories (AI = 10) which works well enough for the other AIP11 races. When I checked I noticed plenty of collectives so they didn't run short in production. Maybe AIP11 is keeping a few spots open for economic strucutres. If that's true we have a problem since the Yor will never get those unless they techtrade. Quoting Gaunathor, reply 3963. The way AIP 11 placed (or rather "not placed") the Charging Stalks. However, I don't think there is anything we can do about that. Probably not. The AI value is high enough as it is. I'll sit tight for tonight until you're done testing. Random thoughts: How about we make a select number lot of unique tech stealable? Right now soooo much tech is untradable and for very good reasons but there's plenty to toy around with. Getting a tech through espionage is rare but getting something really awesome might make it interesting. Would be really be that bad to steal Weather Control? Mercenaries? Divergent Evolution? etc. It would make tech stealing a bit more interesting. Just a thought though.
CM4 needs a higher AIValue I suppose to force them to finish research it, that or a different category. I forced them to get 1, 2 and 3 ASAP but level 4 is much more expensive. Side note. I did see them research it on occasion..
Manufacturing Vortex and Distributed Energy Matrix I didn't touch which is probably why they were ignored. Should be easy enough to fix. Probably Economy as a category will do the trick.
I think that's an AIP11 trick. It turns small words into factories and later terraforms them. I guess the Collective's need a bit higher AI than I gave them. Currently they're equal to the regular factories (AI = 10) which works well enough for the other AIP11 races. When I checked I noticed plenty of collectives so they didn't run short in production.
Maybe AIP11 is keeping a few spots open for economic strucutres. If that's true we have a problem since the Yor will never get those unless they techtrade.
Probably not. The AI value is high enough as it is.
I'll sit tight for tonight until you're done testing.
Random thoughts:
How about we make a select number lot of unique tech stealable?
Right now soooo much tech is untradable and for very good reasons but there's plenty to toy around with. Getting a tech through espionage is rare but getting something really awesome might make it interesting.
Would be really be that bad to steal Weather Control? Mercenaries? Divergent Evolution? etc. It would make tech stealing a bit more interesting.
Just a thought though.
Something which popped into my head just now as a useful series of techs for the Yor (alas, we're feature locked there) would be something like 'Maintenance Grid Optimisation' for some small increments to the Morale ability.
They do get quite a bit of use out of their stalks, but one of the things I felt was missing when playing them was some way to boost morale civ-wide. I guess I'll just have to look out for some morale resources next game.
P.S. Google drive looks cool what with showing the date and time modified on the file. Not at my desktop yet so I'll check out the update in a bit.
I haven't looked at all of the races yet, but, so far, it's looking pretty good.
The Iconians were running rampant in my last test-game (actually in almost all of them).
The game took place on a large map, common everything, no events, 8 minors, and the Terrans, Drengin, Altarians, and Yor, as the other players. I don't know how, but the Iconians managed to grab 27 planets, even though they only had Basic Replicators for the first two years (they began researching Interstellar Refining at the start of 2229). Once they got their production going, however, they were unstoppable.
They first defeated the Drengin, who were their direct neighbour and had the 4th biggest empire (10 planets originally, but they managed to get the number up to 13 during the war). The war took surprisingly long. Almost two years of back and forth, with no side making big progress. Eventually, Lord Kona realised the futility of continuing the war, and surrendered to the Iconians.
Next up were the Altarians who had the second biggest empire (20 planets), and had been at war with the Yor (14 planets) for some time now. That war had already been going on before the Drengin-Iconian war started, and it could have been going for much longer. There were two reasons for this. The first was the distance between the Yor and the Altarians. Both were in the south of the map, but the Yor were in the western corner, the Altarians in the eastern one, and a huge gulf between them. The second reason was that, while the Altarians had the better weapons (Photon Torpedos against the Yor's Harpoons), the Yor had the stronger production and bigger hulls (large hulls vs the Altarian's medium hulls). Once the Iconians entered the mix, things changed. They were direct neighbours to the Altarians, and could easily attack the Altarian planets. Eleys Mue quickly realised this, and surrendered after only a few months of fighting. Also to the Iconians.
Now was the Terran's turn (11 planets). They pretty much had this coming, because they had been instigating most of the wars during this game. Paying one side to attack another, with no regard to who got hurt. They didn't put up much of a fight, and surrendered as soon they could.
The Yor were last on the chopping block, but I didn't stay to watch. It was obvious who was going to win. Almost the whole map was white at this point.
Now to the complaints.
The races seem to research logistics and bigger hulls way too soon. I mean, what good do Enhanced Logistics and Medium Scale Building do, when you have neither the weapons, nor the industry, to make use of them. I've seen races research them in 2227, when they should be focusing on expansion and on improving their economy.
The Yor. Their research is pretty good now. It's just too bad that AIP 11 keeps screwing up the rest. I actually rage-quit one test-game due to this.In that game, the Yor barely managed to colonise five planets during the first year. There were six more, all within two sectors of Iconia, but the Yor were unable to make the necessary colony ships. They just didn't have enough population to fund the production. None of the colonies had even 1b people, and even the one with lowest population (about 86 million) had only an approval rating of 67%. The tax rate was just too high, preventing the population to grow, and the AI couldn't build Stalks, because it lacked the funding.The research was also not that good during this game. They only managed get Computational Matrix, Collective Manufacturing I, Advanced Population Acceleration, and Efficiency Studies I-III during the whole year. The last three techs actually took them more than 30 weeks to research. That actually might have been worth it, if the population had been bigger. As it was, however, Spark of Life Enhancement and Charging Stalks would have been the better choice.I couldn't take it anymore, once I saw the Thalan and Torians colonise those planets, even though they started several sectors away from the Yor.
I'm really sorry to keep on harping on this, but I just don't think that AIP 11 is fitting for the Yor. It just can't play them properly. AIP 8 might not be as good at research, but it can at least manage the rest (tax rate, approval, planetary improvements) pretty well.
As for my evaluation of the races I tested so far, I'd say the Terrans, Drengin, and Altarians, are doing okay. They all research the necessities well enough most of the time, though a few things can still be improved (like the aforementioned logistics and hull techs, for example). The Iconians are just plain awesome. They sometimes don't research Interstellar Refining as early as I'd like, but that doesn't stop them from winning the game. As for the Yor, I've said enough about them already.
http://postimg.org/image/il34vjah3/
Disgusting. Yor riuned my game, so i let the ai play agnst it self after 30 turns and it got WAY worse.
I let the Ai play against itself to test out some super dread lords and as you can see it was a nightmare. they made 100,000 credits a turn!!! and had weapons way faster than anyone, but didnot declare war on any major races. I played on immence maps, challenging difficulty.
The yor are swallowing up wholeEmpires, mine WAS at the top and so was the Arcean (they always suck) and the altarian (the always suck). the Torian were late bloomers with there colony rush and had about 50+ colony ships with no were to go but usually do "ok". The same with the thalan, sometimes they are good like the Yor but have alot of colony ships going nowhere. the terran are constantly worst, before this patch they had a ok colony rush, now they are the smallest empire and suck at everything. the kyrnn are always good but not great. the drengin are good actually and sometimes are as big as the Yor.
Tone down the Yor, they are way OP, there colony rush was big and fast and 5x worse than my screen shot at its worse. Help the terran and arcean and altarian. they need help the most right now.
(orry for spelling errors, cant use backspace or space bar without erasing words next to it.)
And the iconians are doing good, most of the time apart the yor over shadowing everyone. lol
(Hmmm...text works properly on this post and does not overlap, must be a issue with the site?)
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