Project origins
There was some discussion on the Steam forums as to how to get an update to GalCiv 2 out there.
Draginol popped in and suggested that an update incorporating the expertise of the fanbase would be the best way forward. A bugfixing update would soon be on the way.
I sent a message to the other tech tree modders, and luckily secured the assistance of Gaunathor, and later MabusAltarn, as well as some dedicated members of the community who posted some valuable feedback. They have been instrumental to the success of the community update, and I'm glad to have played a small part along the way.
Progress report
The community update has been released as part of a rollout of Stardock products on GOG.com and is also available as an opt-in beta on Steam!
Downloads and links
Issues which can't be fixed with XML manipulation.
The file archive folder, hosted by MabusAltarn.
The list of bugs which can't be fixed with XML manipulation.
The spreadsheet of data changes, hosted by MabusAltarn.
Initial discussion on Steam forums
Credits for community member and Stardock staff involvement
Gaunathor - Tech tree changes, descriptions and standardisation. AI value adjustment. Planetary improvement changes and fixes. Keeper of the change logs, spreadsheet and file archive.
MarvinKosh - Typo and description changes (English.str, Techtree.xml). Additional spreadsheet analysis.
DARCA1213 - Tech descriptions.
MabusAltarn - UI changes, tech tree changes, AI value adjustment, keeper of the file archive, spreadsheet and change logs.
Maiden666 - Suggestions for improvement (technology victory bonuses).
OShee - tech descriptions.
SiliasOfBorg - tech descriptions.
Frogboy - executable code changes.
The new version is up. Same link as before.
I changed the Category for Xeno Communications and Universal Translator to Pure Research. The AI seems to have a much easier time going for it now. I also changed Planetary Improvements back to a Biology-tech in the tech trees for the AIP 11 races. They seem to prefer Biology over Industry.
The AIP 8 races are still very slow to arm up (in comparison to the Torians at least), so I've increased the AIValue of Space Weapons to 120 for them (50 is standard). The results, so far, are inconclusive. Planetary Invasion is also something AIP 8 is reluctant to go after. I've set it to 60 for them (30 is standard), and reduced the cost for some races. For the Arceans, Drengin, and Yor, it now costs 1000 to research, while the Thalan and Krynn now use the standard cost of 1200 (1600 and 1800 respectively was a bit expensive). However, it doesn't seem to have helped yet.
Lastly, I've reduced the cost of the Dream Conclave. The Iconians still had problems with their morale. While they do better now, I'm not entirely convinced, if it was due to the change or just random luck.
And now for something completely different:
Live streaming a playthrough of the community update. I know it's super late/early for you guys, so feel free to catch the replay or something when it's done.
so Gaunathor i think I can settle this. You're right in what you stated as am I. The things I observed is either the result of a bug or another routine which isn't affected by the code which Frogboy made.
Basically all AI will establish a secondary colony in total ignorrance of their sensors. They need the appropriate range though. That is, if you take the colony ship with which they started will always be directed to a close planet on turn 1, or a faraway planet on turn 2. On all difficulty settings, even on cakewalk with distances of +100 parsecs or more!
But usually this bug doesn't playout because there's a secondary habitable planet in all systems but Thalans (who in most cases use this bug). There's also the small chance that when the secondary planet is missing due to asteroids it will play out.
You can even go so far as to take away their initial colony ship and gift them your own. This (every) ship will behave in the same although it might target another planet when this planet is closer to its current location. So the AI "knows" every colonizable planet and uses this knowledge to establish a secondary colony, afterwards "forgets" about it and is bound to its sensory information.
Though it does know about the location of all resources crystals and sends his constructors out without having the necessary reliance of scouts/sensors/no-fogofwar.
edit:
BTW thanks for searching up the links. I was laughing quite about about the last one where that guy wrote something like "it could be a bug but I don't believe this" ...
On another thing, do you know the reason why STARS.txt is about +1.500 names long, although most names are duplicates/triplicates, some show up 6-fold. I've deleted all duplicates making 550 names, and it seems to have no negative effect. For all I know even a Immense-All Abundant setting cannot have this many systems.
Furthermore I've got a list here with 175 names of reals stars who appear in our galaxy if you're interested (a few will match already existing names just as Canopus or Beteigeuze but that could be cleared out in office easily)
@Gaunathor.
I've worked out a way to get AIP8 to research Planetart Invasion. It's not pretty but it works well.
Set it to:
Industry/Pure Research/AIV 35.
AIP8 ignores AIvalues and is allergic to high cost research. Setting PI to Industry/Pure Research prefent research inflation and convinces AIP8 to get this tech ASAP. AIP11 does as well and the tech stays "cheap".
IT's not pretty but it works. I've also concluded Xeno Com and UniT need to be Pure Research for AIP11 to get them at all and AIP8 to go for them much sooner.
On a side note. AIP11 is more likely to go for diplomacy and trade if there's at least three other AI players and the aligment seems to matter as well.
I'll incorporate my changes from last night into the latest version and keep you posted.
I've uploaded a ZIP file to my google drive alongside a note file on my current findings. I've made changed to TechTree, PlanetImprovements and the racial techtrees. All my changes are marked with <!--MA--> to be easy to find. I haven't updated the change log because I'm still experimenting and don't want to waste time redoing updates in the change logs.
On a side note. I urge you all to keep AI values sub 25 whenever possible. We don't want all our techs to become impossible to trade and kill off an important part of the game.
Also, I suggest we turn all fleet modules into Computing/Research techs to ensure the AI leaves these techs alone because it can't use them and any time it spends researching them is completely wasted.
Another thing I've noticed is the AI builds far to few labs. Usually it runs it's economy at 30/10/60 (Mil/Soc/Res) to compensate this meaning it takes forever to finish planetary improvements. Morale on planets is fantastic though and the AI can keep it's taxes and industrial spending well above 70. But it's a little bit excessive right now. They need labs.
Edit:
Scrape that. The AI seems to be hellbend on running it's economy at 30/10/60 ish regardless of the amount of labs.
@Maiden666
re: Colonisation
Good that this can finally be laid to rest. If anyone asks about it in the future, I can link them to this post.
re: STARS.TXT
I have no idea why there are so many duplicates in that file. Removing them can't hurt though. I'll add the file to the update.
@Mabus
re: Planetary Invasion
Sounds like a reasonable change. However, you have to keep it as Category Invasion for the Korath, or they will start researching it too. From what I've seen, the Korath don't use troop transports.
Also, AIP 11 already researched PI at a good pace, so I don't think we need to change it for all races.
re: atlas modules techs
Yes, this might be for the best. I tried to keep them on the appropriate Branch, but no matter what Category I tried, the AI was still researching them anyhow. Well, except for the Korath. They don't touch anything with the Category Invasion.
By the way, any particular reason for changing the Category of the Interstellar Missionaries techs from Pure Research to Research?
I'm having another go at the weapons and defences. It just doesn't feel right that Doom Ray only does single-digit damage. I'm not going to increase it much though. Only to 11 or 12 damage. That should make it feel more like an ultimate weapon.
re: By the way, any particular reason for changing the Category of the Interstellar Missionaries techs from Pure Research to Research?
These techs give SB modules and the AI simply isn't that good at using them. The Research category causes the AI to all but ignore these techs. I know they give a small influence bonus but is that really what these techs are intended to do?
Yes, the AI isn't that good when it comes to using culture modules. However, it does use them, and I've seen AIP 8 max out influencer starbases. Not often, but it did happen.
Still, we could also set the techs to Category Culture. In that case, AIP 8 will go for them, if it thinks it needs more influence, but will otherwise ignore them.
There you go:
STARS.zip
re: Yes, the AI isn't that good when it comes to using culture modules. However, it does use them, and I've seen AIP 8 max out influencer starbases. Not often, but it did happen.
I'll make it culture then.
CustomPlanets.xml which fixes the bug that sometimes the secondary habitable planet is missing.
No new information has been written into the files, just positioned the secondary directly under the main starting planet. If now a planet will be missing, it's always a PQ0 one.
I've uploaded a new version of my adaptations to my google drive. In this version all, save one exception, of the Atlas modules have category Research and Identity computing. I've used this trick to great effect with APT1 and 2 and it's "almost" a fix for the AI researching useless Atlas modules.
Okey I'm putting this out there. Is AIP8 worth the effort? My answer: no.
No matter what I do it's hell bend on researching every frigging industrial tech in the tree at the expense of everything. Since we got +6 extra Industry/Pure Research tech to get this AI to research it's research structures in the first place this is now a serious problem.
Worst of all is that it ignores AIValues and does it's own this. You can work around this by restucturing the techtrees but is it worth the effort? I mean: we got organge research tech in half a dozen tree's just to see to this AI's 'special needs'.
Sorry. I'm frustrated but I'm getting flashbacks to APT2 and beginning to recall why I ditched AIP8.
Well, this is basically why I divided up the industrial techs in SWFM - so that AIP 8 wouldn't go nuts.
I think someone suggested linking industrial techs from hull techs. It sort of makes sense - you need the improved factories when you're going to start cranking out larger hulls. And it makes the AI research something it needs more.
AIP8 is more than capable of throwing lots of ships out there with just asteroid mines and the basic factories. I roll that way sometimes myself.
I think I'm going to try decompiling GC2 so I can see what's going on there - not that I expect to be able to do anything with the code, but it might give us a clue.
I tried the Tech -> Hull thing, not the other way around though.
AIP8 is capable of building fleets. True. But without the tech to conquer other races it feels a bit like a filler.
Yeah. It plays a bit like the Federation in BOTF - really slow off the mark.
I didn't get anywhere with decompiling, unfortunately. It all looks obscure. Well, apart from the bits which validate input strings, those I sort of understand.
Well, AIP 8 has several things going for it, like:-it's the only AI capable of using the Super Diplomacy and Super Manipulator SAs-it's the second best at handling approval (AIP 7 is the best)-it's the best at researching better factories (AIP 7 is the worst, shortly followed by AIP 11)-it uses influencer starbases somewhat decently-it's okay at handling its economy (AIP 11 is atrocious in comparison)
You also have to keep in mind that reducing the number of AIPs to one can make the game feel boring after a while, because every race will behave the same way. Sure, there are some differences between the three native AIP 11 races. However, those are rather minor in the grand scheme of things, and the other eight races will all use the same generic version of AIP 11.
I've uploaded a new version. Same link as before.
It contains my new changes to the weapons and defences (ship and starbases), an update for the Dream Conclave improvement of the Iconians (unlocked by Xeno Persuasion), several of the tech changes by Mabus, the cleaned up STARS.txt from Maiden666, and a couple changes to the CustomPlanets.xml (based on what Maiden666 did in his file).
I also made a change to the Korx entry in the RaceConfig.xml. If you have played them before (or modified them as an opponent), then delete their .raceconfigxml file. Otherwise you won't start out with A History of Mercantilism.
Shit, this is turning into a really good game.
Does anyone know how to work a dll file, I opened the one in the game but am having trouble editing the files as I don't really know what I'm doing despite Trims handing me the tools for it. :/ I don't know data break points and addresses and shit. In fact this failure is depressing me. :/ (but playing the patch makes me happy again )
Still, help?
Um, depends what tool you're using. I had a go using REC.
RE: Well, AIP 8 has several things going for it, like:-it's the only AI capable of using the Super Diplomacy and Super Manipulator SAs
Really? I just ran a test game with the Drath on AIP11. When they're in the game one or more wars pop-up during the middle of 2228. Without them they don't. So it seems AIP11 can use Super Manipulator so it's a fair bet it can use Super Diplomacy as well.
-it's the second best at handling approval (AIP 7 is the best)
With the changes made to the technologies I've seen AIP11 do really well at keeping it's people happy, up in the high 70. With some AI manipulation we can make it do better.
-it's the best at researching better factories (AIP 7 is the worst, shortly followed by AIP 11)
This could be fixed with AIValue tweaking. AIP11 is really sensitive to those.
-it uses influencer starbases somewhat decently
Hmm. Yeah that's pretty cool but how likely is it the AI is going to beat a human player with Influence?
-it's okay at handling its economy (AIP 11 is atrocious in comparison)
I've seen very little difference between the economic sliders between AIP11 and AIP7 and AIP8. Can you name an example?
----
GC2 had one AI, DA introduced the 4 personalities. I might do a test version with just AIP11 just to see how it'll work because I'm running out of idea's how to contain AIP8's mad hunger for factory technology. It does seems to run the Thalan okey, Terrans too. But for the life of me I can't get it to play te Krynn or Iconians properly, never mind the Drath.
re: "Well, AIP 8 has several things going for it, like:-it's the only AI capable of using the Super Diplomacy and Super Manipulator SAs
Really? Are you sure and how did you test this (I can't think of a way)"
I had the Drath on AIP 11 for a while, when I was working on Autumn Twilight. During that time, I didn't see any of the "We've been bribed to go to war with another race" messages you'd usually see with the Drath in the game.
I don't recall, if I did it with the Terrans too at some point. So I can only assume it's the same with them. They are one of the few other races that does the bribes, and that might have something to do with their SA and how their AI is written. Though I could be wrong.
The only other race I suspect of doing bribes is the Korx, though I'm not 100% certain of that. There is also no way to set the races to use a specific sub-set of an AIP in the RaceConfig.xml, so we couldn't use the Korx one for the Terrans and Drath.
re: "-it's the best at researching better factories (AIP 7 is the worst, shortly followed by AIP 11)
This could be fixed with AIValue tweaking."
Though not guaranteed. I've set the AIValue for factories to 35 in the Arcean tech tree, and they still don't research them often enough.
re: "-it's okay at handling its economy (AIP 11 is atrocious in comparison)
I've seen very little difference between the economic sliders between AIP11 and AIP7."
Take a look at the tax rate of AIP 11. It's the only AIP I've seen that runs a tax rate of over 90%, or even over 100% occasionally:
That's an old screenshot from Autumn Twilight. I had the Thalan on AIP 11 for a while (like almost all of the races), and that's the result. Sure, they managed to win now and then, but it was a frustrating experience. It took a huge effort just to get them to research Industrial Adaptation I, and then they refused to research any of the subsequent techs, making them stuck on those hugely expensive factories. Don't even ask about Technology Adaptation.
The Espionage slider is another thing AIP 11 is just terrible at using. Sure, all of the AIPs handle it badly, but AIP 11 is the worst. It almost treats the slider like an on/off switch: it's either set to 0% or on max. Only rarely do I see AIP 11 adjust the spending.
re: "GC2 had one AI, DA introduced the 4 personalities."
From what I recall, DL already had multiple AI personalties. I specifically remember Frogboy talking about that in his AI Wars post and other Dev Journals.
So we have an AI that's addicted to manufacturing and one who is repelled by it.
We just can't get a break, can we? I wish I had the source code...
Hmmm, the screenie contains various bogus information or display errors. I would be careful to base any conclusions on it, you cannot be certain that the rest is shown correctly. There are numerous places in the game where information on other AI isn't shown correctly, even without the cheatcodes.
If manipulation of techtree/ai values doesn't prove fruitful another method would be to homogenize planetary improvements, this takes care of the randomized -not-specialized- planets and is basically the best thing to give to the AI anyway.
Then, having some races focus on either this or that doesn't automatically mean it's playing inefficient. In some cases, eg all-abundant habitable planets + large galaxy focusing on research/building labs isn't even necessary, the RP from planets is sufficient. More prod means more planets from colonizing or conquest....
Then some races already have a very strong research advantage over others and should really only care about getting their production running, the Iconian are an example. Their starting fac is the only weak improvement they have, their 1pp lab, the GA + superhigh research racial takes care about getting new technologies easily. Besides, their SA means they're colonizers where you need production.
The approval penalty for running a 100% tax rate is -199%. The Thalan had a bigger one, so their tax rate had to be higher than 100%. Plus, it's not the only time I've seen this, both in AI vs. AI games and regular ones. The Altarians and Arceans have done it too. Not to mention the Iconians, when I had them on AIP 11.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
