Project origins
There was some discussion on the Steam forums as to how to get an update to GalCiv 2 out there.
Draginol popped in and suggested that an update incorporating the expertise of the fanbase would be the best way forward. A bugfixing update would soon be on the way.
I sent a message to the other tech tree modders, and luckily secured the assistance of Gaunathor, and later MabusAltarn, as well as some dedicated members of the community who posted some valuable feedback. They have been instrumental to the success of the community update, and I'm glad to have played a small part along the way.
Progress report
The community update has been released as part of a rollout of Stardock products on GOG.com and is also available as an opt-in beta on Steam!
Downloads and links
Issues which can't be fixed with XML manipulation.
The file archive folder, hosted by MabusAltarn.
The list of bugs which can't be fixed with XML manipulation.
The spreadsheet of data changes, hosted by MabusAltarn.
Initial discussion on Steam forums
Credits for community member and Stardock staff involvement
Gaunathor - Tech tree changes, descriptions and standardisation. AI value adjustment. Planetary improvement changes and fixes. Keeper of the change logs, spreadsheet and file archive.
MarvinKosh - Typo and description changes (English.str, Techtree.xml). Additional spreadsheet analysis.
DARCA1213 - Tech descriptions.
MabusAltarn - UI changes, tech tree changes, AI value adjustment, keeper of the file archive, spreadsheet and change logs.
Maiden666 - Suggestions for improvement (technology victory bonuses).
OShee - tech descriptions.
SiliasOfBorg - tech descriptions.
Frogboy - executable code changes.
re: Okay, I'll add it. However, I'm still not sure about this. The manual explicitly mentions the bonus tiles, and I don't know, if Stardock is willing to adjust this part in order to accommodate the change.
I think we might need a new manual.
re: I don't know. It looks a bit off to me.
The point of the map is to show you where your rally points are. However, they are often hard to make out (light-grey crosses). Especially on crowded maps with lots of planets. Maybe you could try to fix that instead?
Really? I can't live without it . Oh well. As for the map. I'm afraid there isn't much I can do about the map. I could made the rally point screen very large but that would block the view on the main screen.
re: While on the topic of fixing the UI, there is something wrong with the Government & Ethics screen. It doesn't show the description for Star Federation when you are Evil. I've already checked the Screen.str and English.str, but couldn't find anything wrong there. It has to be an error with the screen itself. Could you look into this?
I've checked. There's nothing wrong with the screen itself I'm afraid the game simply doesn't update the text display object when you've got a StarFed/Evil combination.
re: Thanks. However, I made some small edits, because I wasn't quite happy with them. For example, "+ Strong Diplomacy; - Weak Manufacturing", instead of "Strong Diplomacy. Weak Manufacturing." I hope you don't mind.
I don't mind in the least.
re: War Profit doesn't fit, in my opinion. Plus, the Korx already get 5% from the Mercenary Academy. That should be plenty enough. An Econ bonus would be the next best thing. It doesn't really fit the tech either, but the Korx would never say no to more money. I was toying with the idea of giving it a Defense bonus, because of "fortifying", but am not sure, if that might feel out of place.
I'm having a hard time coming up with something suitable as well. A +trade profit SB module maybe?
@Marvin
re: "I recently got an e-mail from Dropbox, which says that you can create shared folders:"
I'll have to look into this.
@Mabus
re: "I think we might need a new manual."
You're right. The lists of starbase modules and planetary improvements in the manual are completely outdated. That was the case even before we started with the update.
Come to think of it, the manual mentions a Repair System SB module, which increases the speed at which ships in the area get repaired. There is no such module within the game, but I added one in my mod. It does have some issues, mainly that the bonus is an integer and stacks with itself. For example, if you set the bonus of the module to 1, then it will repair 1 HP for all ships in the area. If you have two starbases with this module installed, then they will repair 2 HP for all ships, even if their damage is lower. So you can end up with ships having higher current HP than max HP. However, I think adding this module might be worth it, despite the issues.
re: "As for the map. I'm afraid there isn't much I can do about the map. I could made the rally point screen very large but that would block the view on the main screen."
What about the icon for the rally points? Could you perhaps change its colour, so it is easier to see on the map?
re: "I've checked. There's nothing wrong with the screen itself I'm afraid the game simply doesn't update the text display object when you've got a StarFed/Evil combination."
That's too bad. Thanks for looking into it though.
re: "I'm having a hard time coming up with something suitable as well. A +trade profit SB module maybe?"
We do have enough space for more modules, so that won't be an issue. We still need a name and a description though.
@Mabus, Gaunathor: You know, i think it is easier to make the food bonus on farms smaller instead of hiding the UI and changing the improvements? Players can still build on the tiles and not know it, but now they won't know it because you are assuming people are to stupid to figure out the new way. I honestly hope we thought of everything before we changed something this big, we could have made farms one per-planet, we could have simply reduced the bonuses? My games are fine with reduced food on farms, the AI does not hurt itself and its less evasive.
(I will see if I can get permission from frogboy.)
DARCA
@Gaunathor Hmmm.
Module: "Protection Racket"
Description: "Pay up, or blow up."
@DARCA
re: "I honestly hope we thought of everything before we changed something this big, we could have made farms one per-planet, we could have simply reduced the bonuses?"
We've tried all of those methods over the years. Along with several more. None of them worked out.
I like that. "That's a nice freighter you've got there. It would be a shame, if something bad happened to it, wouldn't it?"
@Gaunathor
Exactly
Question. Would you guys mind if I reformatted TechTree.XML so it displays the techtree a little better in game? There's a few lines that cross and there's a few lines that are very steep.
How so? Please explain.
Sure, go ahead. Just try to keep the general sorting intact (no Trade techs under Entertainment, for example). You'd also need to edit the changelogs though, because I've sorted them after the tech tree.
Sorry, but I just want to forgot that the farming problem exists. I've spent years trying to find a way to fix it, and now, that I've found a working solution, I don't want to waste any more time on it. Maybe one of the others can explain all the failed attempts to you, or you could search the forums. There are enough posts about the problem.
Uploaded a techtree.xml and modified changelog to my google drive account. The techtrees are a bit more compact now.
Also uploaded an English.srt with the bonuses added to tile descriptions.
I played a test game with the Iconains. Large map. Painful difficulty. 5 random opponents: Terrans, Krynn, Torians, Yor and Korath.
I had a minor in my territory that seemed to be doing alright and had quite a fleet. Unfortunately it decided it's fleet should be kept off planet making an invasion rather simple.
The Krynn and Yor didn't get a lot of words in the early game. I dealt with the Yor first while they were occupied with the Terrans.
The Krynn were next. The Krynn had a ton of eco starbases up and running. I've never seen anything like it. I noticed that most worlds I invaded had a morale rating of 70 and higher, especially the Krynn seemed to be really happy. Most ships have shield defenses but mine had more health.
The AI's seemed to be doing alright but mostly left me alone which made things easier. Maybe I'll make them a bit more aggresive next time.
The Terrans and Torians turned are the real power blocks but none are using anything higher than small hulls so far. They'll be interesting to deal with. Maybe my use of frigates will trigger a need in them to research bigger hulls. We'll see.
Techtrading works just fine after getting a good diplomacy rating.
Me and the Terrans are doing the most reseach. Not to surprising as the Terrans have 2x the amount of worlds but I build quite a few research structures, got quite a few bonuses and the Iconian research structures just rock.
I love the fact it only takes a few constructors to upgrade a starbase. This always felt like a chore to me and now it seems to be just right. Engines are much more useful early on making me wonder if I should invest more into them. Ships seem to finish pretty quickly and the game doesn't drag on as much as it used to. Some AI's tried to bully me into giving them money. I'm being spy bombed. Good stuff.
I didn't have a lot of trouble keeping my economy running using nothing but the Iconian native structures. I enjoyed the new techtrees and changes made to the structures. They feel right and they make sense.
I'm having fun! The game's not over but I'm reasonably sure I can win it. I'm sure the opponents would be more difficult if I had taken the trouble to set them up properly. Maybe that's something we should consider doing before release since it is possible to set up a race in RaceConfig while still allowing a skill reset for customisation.
Good stuff
Regards,
A.
re: "none are using anything higher than small hulls so far."
The AIValues for Advanced Hulls and upwards were still on 10 in the last version. I adjusted them in my new version, which should make the AI more likely to go for them.
re: "the Iconian research structures just rock."
What do you think about the Precursor Library as a GA? I'm still not sure, if that was the right move. However, it was the only thing I could think of to fix the Iconians over-abundance of mandatory 1pps. Although, I'm even more worried about the Omega Research Center. It feels a bit UP compared to the Tech Capital and Precursor Library.
re: "I love the fact it only takes a few constructors to upgrade a starbase."
Speaking of which, in my new version, I reduced the amount of production-assist modules for the Drengin from 5 to 3, and the Korath from 4 to 2, and the mining modules of the Yor from 4 to 3. The amount just felt too high, when compared to the standard of 2.
re: "since it is possible to set up a race in RaceConfig while still allowing a skill reset for customisation."
How so? The RaceConfig.xml only has tags for the base values of the abilities, but not for custom modifiers. Only the .raceconfigxml file for a customised race has those.
I've uploaded a new version. Same link as before.
In addition to what I've already mentioned, it contains Mabus' changes to remove the farm tiles from sight, two new SB modules (Repair System and the Korx-only Protection Racket), and a new look for the tech trees. The look is based on the one used in the TechTree.xml uploaded by Mabus, but with some adjustments to keep the file easier to work with.
I also changed the con for the Krynn back to Research, and gave them a -10% Research penalty. Their techs Superior Espionage and Master Spies now grant a +5% bonus to Research, so this is basically a zero-sum change.
I've run a couple test with the new values for the starbase defenses, and they were working fine. Until Miniaturization entered the mix. The defences just couldn't handle the increased fire-power of the attacking ships. The attacker didn't even need tier 6 weapons to bring down a maxed out starbase. Seven large hulled ships with Phasors III were enough to wipe it out in the first turn.I could increase the defences to compensate for this, but that would screw over anyone without a high level of Miniaturization. However, this could also make the starbases untouchable, if the owner has access to a couple Military Resources. So, I'm considering to reduce the amount of Miniaturization instead. Either to 30% (5% per tech), 50% (5% for the first two techs and 10% for the rest), or 60% (10% per tech). I would prefer 30%, because it would be the least overpowering option. However, I'd like to hear what you think.
Miniaturisation has always seemed a little bit too powerful compared to doing research which makes particular components more space efficient. The cost does eventually scale up enough to make me think 'Do I really need more?'
Tell you what, why not try somewhere in between 30 and 60 and then with a playthrough we can see whether it needs to be changed further.
Like I said, an early military leader doesn't have much incentive (a trigger which increases the importance of the hull techs) until its heavy fighters no longer cut it in a galaxy increasingly dominated by bigger ships. It can take a while for that to happen, especially if they can keep cranking out fighters to replace what they've lost.
I'll pick up the new version and check out hull progression again.
re: What do you think about the Precursor Library as a GA? I'm still not sure, if that was the right move. However, it was the only thing I could think of to fix the Iconians over-abundance of mandatory 1pps. Although, I'm even more worried about the Omega Research Center. It feels a bit UP compared to the Tech Capital and Precursor Library.
One of the best changes! I always felt it was a little odd the Iconians could just build these libraries from scratch. To me, it's a structure they inherited. It's cool. It's powerful and having only one in the map makes it special.
re: Speaking of which, in my new version, I reduced the amount of production-assist modules for the Drengin from 5 to 3, and the Korath from 4 to 2, and the mining modules of the Yor from 4 to 3. The amount just felt too high, when compared to the standard of 2.
I'll check it out.
re: How so? The RaceConfig.xml only has tags for the base values of the abilities, but not for custom modifiers. Only the .raceconfigxml file for a customised race has those.
You can add those tags to RaceConfig.xml and it will work. E.g. If you add the following lines to the Terran race:
<Ability4>20</Ability4> <Ability8>20</Ability8> <Ability9>20</Ability9> <Ability23>25</Ability23> <Ability25>25</Ability25>
They'll be preconfigured. If you hit reset you regain your 10 points to customise. If you hit clear they'll be preconfigured again. Setting this up is pretty easy. Configure a race the way you like then copy the <AbilityX> tags to RaceConfig.XML (you can omit the ones with 0 as a value). It's probably a good idea to do this. The game does assign the 10 customisation points but it does so randomly and without any consideration to a race's strengths and you end up with +20 influence on Drengin.
Of course this begs the qeustion: how do we set them up?
In addition, I've uploaded a new FlavorText.XML and change log to my google drive. It contains all the added description's I wrote for APT2.
Added homeworld descriptions (Good/Neutral/Evil) for:
- Altarians- Arceans- Torians- Iconians- Yor- Korath- Krynn- Thalan- Drath- Korx
Added citizen names for:- Torian- Korx- Thalan- Iconian- Drath- Krynn (The Krynn are a mishmash of all race names since they're not technically a species but a collective of species sharing a religion.)
Added "A journey begins" for:- Arceans- Krynn- Korath
All descriptions were written to fit the lore and timeline of the Galciv universe.
Getting starbase defense right is really tough. I've made several attempts in APT2 and you either end up with indestructible objects or something with the studity of a leaky water balloon.
The key ingredient is health. Starbases benefit from +health bonuses like a ship. Maybe a boost to base health?
re: Miniaturisation has always seemed a little bit too powerful compared to doing research which makes particular components more space efficient. The cost does eventually scale up enough to make me think 'Do I really need more?'
It is powerful. Maybe a bit to powerful. I think you could cut down Miniaturisation by 50% and it would still be worth while and perhaps it would make it more interesting to research the later techs.
re: "Tell you what, why not try somewhere in between 30 and 60 and then with a playthrough we can see whether it needs to be changed further."
Okay, I'll set it to 50%, and see how that goes.
re: "You can add those tags to RaceConfig.xml and it will work."
Huh, I wasn't aware of that. Good to know.
re: "Of course this begs the qeustion: how do we set them up?"
I think every race should have some bonuses to economy-related abilities (Economics, Morale, Pop. Growth). The rest of the points can then be invested into abilities that are fitting to the race, depending on its background. For example, Weapons and Soldiering for the Drengin, Research and PQ for the Iconians, Diplomacy, Trade, Creativity, and Speed for the Terrans, etc.
re: "In addition, I've uploaded a new FlavorText.XML and change log to my google. It contains all the added description's I wrote for APT2."
Thanks. I'll take a look.
re: "The key ingredient is health. Starbases benefit from +health bonuses like a ship. Maybe a boost to base health?"
I already did that. Starbases have 100 HP now, compared to the original 42 HP.
re: I think every race should have some bonuses to economy-related abilities (Economics, Morale, Pop. Growth). The rest of the points can then be invested into abilities that are fitting to the race, depending on its background. For example, Weapons and Soldiering for the Drengin, Research and PQ for the Iconians, Diplomacy, Trade, Creativity, and Speed for the Terrans, etc.
Alright. I'll set it up.
Well if you go for all-attack it's usually the only thing you can do because those HP mods do take up very little space and therefore are IMO the best choice to take up all remaining capacity when no more weapons will fit.
Although a single def mod would be more cheap, and esp. some early ones are a good choice because here difference between "on" and "off"-type doesn't change so drastically. In the classic game there were "Superior Duranthium" +3def at tier2 and Tri-Strontium +4def at tier3 which in such a case would beven be a better candidate for missile defense as their respective "real" missile-defenses at the same tier - because these are only def+1 or def+2. [ie the massdriver defense will be in an offtype scenario of the same strength than the ontype defense... 1:1:1 vs 3:1:1 or 1:2:1 vs 4:2:2, and it even gets worse once you reach a +40% def racial 1:1:1 vs 4:2:2 (!)]
I tend to play a lot of games where huge hulls aren't even used, because their either finished beforeahead or the techspeed settings makes them not worthwhile. As such, I've shifted most of my attention to the early/midgame balancing because these will always play a certain role no matter what gamesetting you choose.
I think your SpaceWeapons mod did fix some of the problems, it would actually be easy if techs could have multiple pre-requisites. On the other hand your mod was the hell annoying to play because of the limitations.... For example it's a common occurrence suddenly CivXYZ (who are militarily ahead) declares war on you and you are now pressed to do something about it. Researching weapons usually takes too long, besides, the AI might do the same with a higher RP so you'll loose this conflict on both ends. The second thing was to research into defense (+miniaturization or hp/hulls) which could be done quickly and just advancing there far enough to make them supereffective. In a way it's not fair and unbalanced but on the other hand not being able to help oneself is frustrating from a human player standpoint....
IMO there should be some sort of limitation against the method to blast through single entry of the techtree in order to get a certain omnipotency in a specific region. The techcost of weapons, their sheer number and the fact they increase their cost with every new tech researched does do this for weapons pretty well, but hulls, miniaturization, defense and logistics are suitable candidates IMO.
One thing to keep in mind with hullbalancing is that the bonuses each hull gets do work our multiplicative, ie better hitpoints-ratio of 1.3, better capacity-ratio of 1.3 and a better logisticsratio of 1.3 will finally make your ships better by factor ~2.2. If you just increase all those ratio's to 2 the net advantage would be factor 8(!) - which would mean omnipotency, fleetbattle without loosing ships. And this can be a very dangerous scenario, because here a very small number of ships could defeat entire army. I believe this shouldn't be the case by simply advancing one tier of technology. Going one step should rather give you an advantage that will make you loose lesser ships, so that over time you can win a conflict - albeit still giving the enemy time to do some research and then being able to respond efficiently. A omnipotency should come if you advance further ahead, ie going with huge hulls vs mediums...
Yor:
Torian Confederation:
Arcean Empire:
Altarian Resistance:
Drengin Empire:
Terran Alliance:
Korx:
Drath:
Thalan Empire:
Iconian Refuge:
Korath:
Krynn Consulate:
re: "Alright. I'll set it up."
Okay.
I had a look at your new descriptions in the FlavorText.xml, and they are mostly okay. However, I didn't like the Homeword-description for the Yor, and the A New Journey-entry for the Korath. Here is what I changed them to:
Evil Yor (haven't come up with something for Good and Neutral yet):The [SHORTEMPIRENAME] are one of the oldest civilizations in the known universe, courtesy of being created by THE oldest civilization in the known universe. Once the mechanical laborers of the Iconians, the [SHORTEMPIRENAME] made quick work of their creators when the Dread Lords granted them sentience. They would have been content to stay on their homeworld, [PLANETNAME], for all eternity, if it wasn't for the existence of biological lifeforms. Now, with Hyperdrive in their hands, the [SHORTEMPIRENAME] can finally carry out their plan: to eradicate all organic life in the universe.
Korath:Xenophobia#Not too long ago we were part of the Drengin Empire, but no more. The Dread Lords have promised us unimaginable power in exchange for destroying all those disgusting subspecies in the galaxy. An offer which we gladly accepted.
Our brothers in the Drengin Empire won't be happy once we start eradicating their slave-supply, but why should we care about what those weaklings think? We too will use slaves as a resource, for now. However, unlike our fool-brothers, we will actively seek out other, more reliable ways, to replace them.
And when the day comes that the [EmpireName] rules the galaxy, it will be a galaxy solely inhabited by us.
I also fixed a few typos and grammar-issues, but the whole file still needs to be properly proofread.
@Gaunathor.
Looks good. I like it.
I like those starting bonuses. However, I have two questions:
The Social Production entry for the Torians is missing the value. Based on the other values, is this supposed to be 20%?The Terrans have a +1 Sensor bonus, which you remarked gives a total bonus of +2. However, the Terrans don't have a racial Sensor bonus. Is this supposed to be a Speed bonus perhaps?
The AI doesn't need sensors at all so those points are entirely wasted.
Giving the Korath +PQ don't fit in with the concept that they actually destroy a planet in order to gain production. Besides, having many tiles further aggravates their problem of having a lot of planets in red due to no pop (spored)
I'm done implementing the pre-setup bonuses. However, I made a few alterations:
1. The Yor had 1 point left, so I gave them a +10% Soldiering bonus.
2. The total cost of the Arcean setup was 12 points, so I had to remove some of the bonuses. I chose the Military Production bonus, because the Arceans already have a racial one.
3. The Korx got another bonus to Economics, instead of +1 to Sensors, because, as Maiden666 stated, the AI doesn't need them.
4. The Thalan got a +20% bonus to Diplomacy, instead of +2 to Sensors, for the same reason.
5. The Korath got +10% Social Production, +40% Loyalty, and +30% Soldiering, instead of +10% PQ and +2 to Sensors.
I ran a few test with +50% Miniaturization. It seems to work okay, but I still need to test it some more to be sure. The starbases are no longer quite the easy targets. However, there is still a bit of luck involved, due to the random rolls, or if the attacker has a high Weapons bonus.I also noticed that Missiles are the worst weapons to use against starbases. You usually need to use the next tier missiles to do some damage, or have overwhelming forces. Preferably both. The only exception seem to be Seeker Missiles and Nightmare Torpedos. Though you still need multiple fleets to bring the starbase down (especially with the Seeker, because the SB has too many HP at that point in the game).
Seems good. I must have made a few error updating the change log. Thanks for correcting them.
@Maiden666
Is it true the AI doesn't need sensors? I wasn't aware of this.
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