I am one of those gamers who adored the gameplay and the depth of GC2, but who whished that the game had better graphics. Immersion is an important part of gaming for me, and the appearance of a game obviously can help a great deal to establish this immersion factor. Unfortunalety, the graphics of GC2 did not achieve much in this direction. Because of this, like many others I was thrilled by the news that there will actually be this next generation installment, which promised to change things usings modern methods.
I just now took my first look at GC3, and I have to say that I am more than a little suprised by its current looks. I don't want to (and can't) talk about deeper gameplay changes, but I can tell you what impression I had when I watched the first videos of it, and I am pretty convinced that even for a 4x game, the first impression is important: This game looks exactly like its predecessor! Yes, one can argue that this statement is of course nonsense, because there are some differences here and there, etc, etc. But overall, there is not really a step upwards concerning the appearance of this game noticable.
The planet maps are the same static images like in GC, they look like a board game from 1990, but not in any way like a user interface of a video game from 2014. How can this be? I am currently playing Imperium Galactica 2 on my phone (which achieves a nice immersion btw), where you can zoom in onto a planet (with a 3D model I might add) and build cities there. Not possible for GC 2014? And the star map does also not provide any significant changes either. Ships for example are still flying there zigzag routes (an absolute immersion killer). What, Really? I can not even imagine what the ideas of you guys where to rebuild the same game with the same looks 10 years later.
GC3 has been one of my most anticipated games lately, but frankly, at the moment my impression is that I do not know what this game actually adds to its predecessor, and I think there might not be a need to buy this directly after release. I could be that I will wait until the first good sale at steam.
A sleeker UI. I'd like to see a design that you are expecting (or a reference to another game with which you have in mind for UI)? (I'm not defending the current UI, but I'm curious about the UI you'd expect to see.) Something similar to Beyond Earth?
The flying zigzag can be distracting, but this problem arises from the hex based map. Making the ships fly in a smoother motion also would indicate that they are not entering each hex. So, how would one determine which hex should be used if the movement is not fully complete in one turn. Say a 3 turn trip. Would we expect a non-zigzag motion to each of the end turn movement places and would this cause unnecessary zigzag in itself, when the full motion would look better otherwise? Say the shipyard that moves 1 per turn, and you want to move it 10 hexes... would a zigzag motion be appropriate here? Again I'm not defending the zigzag motion, but I would like to hear about a better solution to the problem. Because maybe if we come up with a good solution we can get rid of it.
The tactical combat is being worked on. They say it won't be like gratuitous space battles and it won't be simple auto-resolve. There is a middle point in between and they have been very mum on how tactical is going to work. I'd like more info on this... but it doesn't appear we are going to get it anytime soon.
I would like to see the planets being a little more dynamic with more cities, but then that would be a mini-game in an already large game. I would have liked to see multiple cities arise on the planet and be a little less abstract, but the current system keeps it simple.
I also don't find that changing a working old concept to be a bad thing. Somethings can be improved, but there has to be a good reason to improve or change the concept. Change for the sake of it needs to be different somehow is not a good way to approach things. I'm all for change in the game, I supported the off world shipbuilding, it adds a great strategic layer to the game, but other things I don't think would work well, like a Simcity type game-play for planets.
I'd like to see more solutions and what they need to change and how they should change it and why they should change it. I find that far more helpful in the game design. This doesn't mean I don't agree with things you are saying, its just I don't see a viable solution and therefore default to keep the system the same.
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First of all i'm not saying anything bad about the game other then what i've already stated, which was mostly the UI. But change is something that happens whether you like it or not. People change, industries change, interest's change, the world and the people in it are changing everyday. What was awesome once upon a time isn't so awesome now a days. Look at pac-man for example. One of the best games of all time. There wasn't many people in the USA that hadn't played Pac-Man. But how did it fair 10 years later? Hows it fairing today?
GC 1 was ground breaking for me i loved it. Many hours of lost sleep. GC 2 was also very awesome lots of improvements, The game was great. Now GC 3 is in beta and yes it's probably just as much fun as GC 2, from what i can tell it's made a good deal of changes. But it still seems like the game from yesterday, i think it's just that the industry and consumer expectations have changed so much that we naturally expect more liveliness more immersion and new versions of the game should introduce some major changes while keep pace with the industry and the prior versions of the game. It's a finicky balance that needs to be made between the three points (new features, modern features, and older version relation).
With that said i know the graphics have made strides and if they can actually deliver on playing against hundreds then that's going to be mind blowing. I don't think you all actually understand what that means yet.
Thats not saying that GC 3 isn't a good game, it's not saying it's an awesome game either. Yes your going to have the die hard fans of every game that are going to mash and maul any nay-sayers even if they have a point. Because some people don't like change.
I love stardock and brad, brad is the only owner that i've ever seen literally talk to people on the forums. I mean he IS stardock. He alone makes the company that much better. I've purchased everything that's been made for Elemental and will continue to throw may money at the man. But i am disappointed that GC 3 has tried so hard to stay true to GC 2 that he's literally made the exact same game in terms of feeling and immersion. Yes the game looks better but it feels the same, graphics aren't the only thing that should change. i mean the shipyards in space was an AWESOME change, that's going to give some tactical choices. But that's the only thing i see that's really changed. (graphics aside)
You ask for examples of interfaces well then look at civilization for example. It's not entirely about the interface it's that the interface gets in the way. Shrink the borders push things to the edges remove the side bar and create a city report type thing like civilization has so if i want to i can view my planetes, they don't always have to be on the screen all the time it takes away from the immersion of the game. I mean it's just to yesterday to be coming out today. having a bar along the top or bottom that contains all your stats like currency and whatever else along with adding report buttons around the map or something to easily get to the items you need. I don't want to say make it like this game or that game because it's not that game it's GC.
regarding the planet view i couldn't careless if it's a flat map, the problem i have with it is that's still only one entity meaning it doesn't feel like a planet it feels like city or i think somebody else said a base. It's not a planet, do something making it appear more like a planet. Like just show the planet and a listing of possible cities (based on planet size or something) only make it so that each city can have only 1 or 2 items in it (possible more tech research to improve). then when you attack the planet make each battle for each of the cities or something. There are things you can do to make it feel more like a planet over a city/base if you want to. I'm not telling stardock to do that i'm just saying that there are changes that be made to improve every part of the game and make it better then GC 2 in even more ways.
I have a idea:
I want to a modd where lights and civilization only spawn on useable tiles to simulate cities when looking at a planet, and when viewing the planet.
Tiles would have a city like background when viewing it. And once a improvement is made on a tile that improvement is shown most on the tile, with the traditional picture of the improvement on the tile shown as being faded or not at all. (apart from a a tool tip)
But just doing the first paragraph and showing multiple buildings on a tile to visually support the improvement will substantially help with this problem.
I'm surprised I came up with this great idea and didn't make one joke.
DARCA
First of all i'm not saying anything bad about the game other then what i've already stated, which was mostly the UI. But change is something that happens whether you like it or not. People change, industries change, interest's change, the world and the people in it are changing everyday. What was awesome once upon a time isn't so awesome now a days. Look at pac-man for example. One of the best games of all time. There wasn't many people in the USA that hadn't played Pac-Man. But how did it fair 10 years later? Hows it fairing today?GC 1 was ground breaking for me i loved it. Many hours of lost sleep. GC 2 was also very awesome lots of improvements, The game was great. Now GC 3 is in beta and yes it's probably just as much fun as GC 2, from what i can tell it's made a good deal of changes. But it still seems like the game from yesterday, i think it's just that the industry and consumer expectations have changed so much that we naturally expect more liveliness more immersion and new versions of the game should introduce some major changes while keep pace with the industry and the prior versions of the game. It's a finicky balance that needs to be made between the three points (new features, modern features, and older version relation).With that said i know the graphics have made strides and if they can actually deliver on playing against hundreds then that's going to be mind blowing. I don't think you all actually understand what that means yet.Thats not saying that GC 3 isn't a good game, it's not saying it's an awesome game either. Yes your going to have the die hard fans of every game that are going to mash and maul any nay-sayers even if they have a point. Because some people don't like change.I love stardock and brad, brad is the only owner that i've ever seen literally talk to people on the forums. I mean he IS stardock. He alone makes the company that much better. I've purchased everything that's been made for Elemental and will continue to throw may money at the man. But i am disappointed that GC 3 has tried so hard to stay true to GC 2 that he's literally made the exact same game in terms of feeling and immersion. Yes the game looks better but it feels the same, graphics aren't the only thing that should change. i mean the shipyards in space was an AWESOME change, that's going to give some tactical choices. But that's the only thing i see that's really changed. (graphics aside) You ask for examples of interfaces well then look at civilization for example. It's not entirely about the interface it's that the interface gets in the way. Shrink the borders push things to the edges remove the side bar and create a city report type thing like civilization has so if i want to i can view my planetes, they don't always have to be on the screen all the time it takes away from the immersion of the game. I mean it's just to yesterday to be coming out today. having a bar along the top or bottom that contains all your stats like currency and whatever else along with adding report buttons around the map or something to easily get to the items you need. I don't want to say make it like this game or that game because it's not that game it's GC. regarding the planet view i couldn't careless if it's a flat map, the problem i have with it is that's still only one entity meaning it doesn't feel like a planet it feels like city or i think somebody else said a base. It's not a planet, do something making it appear more like a planet. Like just show the planet and a listing of possible cities (based on planet size or something) only make it so that each city can have only 1 or 2 items in it (possible more tech research to improve). then when you attack the planet make each battle for each of the cities or something. There are things you can do to make it feel more like a planet over a city/base if you want to. I'm not telling stardock to do that i'm just saying that there are changes that be made to improve every part of the game and make it better then GC 2 in even more ways.
only people that are sure of their beliefs and are passionate about something, care enough to constructively criticize.
Many people said the same thing about tropico 4, comparing it to 3 saying it was similar. Looking at 5 saying it was the same as 4... But never comparing 3 to 5. And always saying how three was so much different than 5. Barking dogs.
I must say with with all this new stuff I don't believe its galciv2.1 but actually galciv3:
1. Better espionage.
2. Space combat overhaul (not full tactical sadly).
3. Diplomacy.
4. Colonization and map features make this very distinguishable from galciv2.
5. Graphics.
6. Ideology.
7. The way everything is calculated from production to morale.
8. The ship designer.
9. Ground combat overhaul.
10. Multiplayer!
and there's likely more stuff I haven't thought of.
I've said so much smart unfunny stuff, I feel like a different person.
A sleeker UI I mean smooth curved lines instead of diagonal ones and black background, the game is dark.. making UI black.. it's too much.To give an idea of sleek design think of the bridge in the Enterprise in last Star Trek movies or Star Wars Attack of the clones the Kamino aliens and their ultra futuristic minimal designs. No they are not interface but it's the best of what I call sleek and cool design.
For zig zag motion I dont know how to solve it because Im no programmer so I dont know do it. An idea I have I dont know if its possible but what if ships skip the middle hexes? For example a ship with 5 moves it will travel directly from hex 1 to hex 3 and from 3 to 5 in a straight line, counting all hexes just skipping moving in the other ones.
When I say for real planets and many cities I don't say anything complicate to waste too much time. But something much simpler and more realistic the same time. So let's say a planet can support x billion people and x number of cities. Too many cities to check one by one so instead you see only 1 city when you want to introduce a new building in your planet. A nice city view and some 3D buildings.In time population increases and more cities appear which they are visible only from satellite.
And not forget the terraformation to see your planet changing is very cool and better than static terrain and sectors.
Yeah that kind of UI would be cooler.
The zig zag motion they talked about it in one of the dev streams and they had difficulties along these lines.
For the cities on the planet, I would like to see them, but I don't think it would be practical.
If I can see more cities and have the planet slowly terraform would be awesome. Maybe they can get that out for a DLC, as that might take a lot of manpower to accomplish.
In general, I like all these ideas, including the ones from Matopicus. Not sure if the Stardock dev team is large enough to incorporate these ideas in the given time frame (that plays a big role in development). But I hope to see some changes to the look of the buildings on the planets. The icons are nice, but a 3d popup icon might look neater. Even if it is a fake 3d icon (like a diorama). I wouldn't mind even seeing lights travelling across the planet between these buildings (sort of like roads). But I'm not going to expect it from the game.
For game icons (improvements) check my post:
https://forums.galciv3.com/457324/page/1/#3490570
Hmmm, it does bug me that a planet has only an industrial, research, farm, etc. per tile on it. It would be cool to have a city as a base build (per tile instead of farm, factory,etc) and specialize those cities to be factory, research, farm, etc. with improvements. So each had similarities (houses, shops, etc.) but each was unique as a blend of improvements (New York is economic, DC is influence, San Fran is research, etc.) So that each tile isn't absolutely all one thing, but a blend of each. The base tile may start with say +2 food +1 production, no research. You build a factory on that tile, you get -1 food +1 production. You build a farm tile, you get +3 food, .5 production, .1 research (throwing numbers around). Anyway, as you build more of something, it takes away from something else. Each tile will eventually specialize, but while building them, they give a little of everything on the way. So there is more balance in growing a 4 tile planet than all one or another tile improvement. Also there is more balance while filling out at 16 tile planet when first starting out.
Darca, you are my muse I think we are thinking on the same lines, but since we are both nuts, it is hard to tell.
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