The Internet is toxic, but its toxicity is usually equal opportunity
One of the more annoying trends in our society has been the substitution of action with rhetoric. This has really taken off in the age of Twitter where people think hashtags are a replacement for actually doing something.
Today I read an Opinion Piece on Polygon called “No Skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry” by a woman named Brianna Wu. It's an article I recommend checking out.
However, I do have some criticisms of the piece. For starters, it is a bad piece of journalism. It relies completely on sensationalist emotionalism to back up its blanket assertion (“the daily harassment of women in the game industry”).
Such articles, even opinion pieces, are apparently not open to discussion. As soon as I expressed some criticism on Twitter the haters came out in force. All sense of reason evaporated. My criticism was: Be aware that sometimes allegations of sexual harassment are false (remember what happened to me). Sometimes, some women choose to take criticism/teasing/abuse as being due to their sex.
Let me give you the part from the article that caused me to write my tweet in the first place.
This is the example Ms. Wu provides as an example of sexual harassment women face:
Two things to point out about this: First, anonymous user (which is one of the sources of why Internet discussion can get so toxic) and second, while clearly abusive, this has nothing to do with the writer being female. I have gotten tweets to me very similar to this when I've made a casual tweet regarding a game console. Ask Phil Fish about internet abuse. Trolls will cater their trolling to their target.
The point of my tweet is that we need to be careful on this because *sometimes* the allegation that it's *sexual* harassment is false.
The article provides 4 such anecdotes. The Internet has plenty of vile behavior that many of us run into regularly. But this article tries to make sweeping conclusions with it. I take issue with articles that make sweeping (and arguably sexist) charges against men using 4 anecdotes as evidence.
If we were debating any other topic and someone made a broad, far reaching claim and backed it up with nothing more than 4 anecdotal examples they’d get reamed. But because we are talking about an ism, it is taboo to raise any skepticism about the article’s agenda.
I’ve been in the game industry a long time. I’ve seen its ugliness in many different forms. So let me tell you: This subject matter is delicate and should be treated as such.
So let's look at the responses I got when I tweeted that women sometimes make false claims of "sexual harassment" when in fact what they received had nothing to do with their sex:
To which I respond:
Which gets:
Buzzfeed's Nicol Leffel goes right to name-calling almost immediately.
Ugh. There were much more vile responses than these but I blocked them and now I can't find them on twitter. The point being, even attempting to discuss the topic invites assumptions of sexism and abuse.
There IS misogyny in the game industry but not where the professional victims would have you believe
The misogyny I've seen in our industry is not representative of game culture in general but is a manifestation of Internet toxicity. Let's start with the sexist reaction successful women in the game industry often receive. When a man does something impressive and gets some publicity, they get kudos and support. But if a woman does something impressive and gets the same publicity, their experience is likely to be terrible and humiliating. I’ve seen this first hand and it’s discouraging. But it would be wrong to imply that this is a general issue. Internet culture is toxic.
...But we have to be careful that this issue isn't exploited by opportunistic people to for professional or personal gain.
I have first hand experience with this. Those of you who know me know the hell I went through when I was falsely accused of "sexual harassment" by a former, opportunistic employee who was hoping for a quick pay off.
Let me say it plainly: There are women who will exploit this delicate topic for financial or professional gain. Maybe they’re “journalists” who know it’s a quick, easy way to get their article published on Kotaku. Maybe it’s a former journalist whose just gotten into the game industry who wants her upcoming project to get coverage. Or maybe it’s a young woman mad at her boss who wants to exploit the issue to make money. And of course, maybe it’s a legitimate reporting on a serious problem. But sorry, I’m a skeptic now. I didn’t use to be such a skeptic but 2 years of unwarranted smears and death threats have made me take these claims with a grain of salt.
So what can we do?
I’m an engineer, I’m interested in solutions and I think there is a lot we can do to address this issue:
Choose to be part of the solution: Do your part to make the Internet a less toxic environment. Don’t just blindly support empty, feel good pap. Keep your critical thinking cap on.
Update: Slashdot comments are very interesting and in stark contrast to the empty progressive rhetoric on Twitter. http://games-beta.slashdot.org/story/14/07/22/229256/the-daily-harassment-of-women-in-the-game-industry
Update 2: Added more content, added item #2 regarding anonymity. Fixed Typos. (see edit history).
Update 3: Added pics from Twitter.
Update 4: Typos, streamlined.
Update 5: Crossed out item 2. I've been persuaded that it's a bad idea.
What you consider it (bullshit, nonsense) is irrelevant. Private forum. Moderated according to private rules (TOS).
Yep. They can ban people for talking about ice cream cones, if they so desire.
Of course, and the same goes for you as well.
Goes without saying.
Article on how Social liberals arguing for their cause might rather be poisoning debate in general in a "Tragedy Of The Commons" dynamic:
http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/the_purpose_of_argument_online_20140823
This article was written before the whole Zoe Quinn thing blew up.
If I had 1 wish for the gaming media is that they would stick to writing about games. If they want to be social activists, fine, do it on your own dime. I don't shove my politics into our products. I just want the people who play our games to enjoy themselves.
This.
Right! Games exploring social issues are inevitable, and if done right can add to the product. But since when is it up to the gaming "journalists" to take up the cause and fight for it?
Well, at least it's transparent. Now I know to stay the fuck away from some writers because their strongly held beliefs represents undeniable bias.
Just as Depression Quest was a fun adventure into empathy-land for me, but the writing about it was horseshit.
This is the answer everywhere. When writing about sports, sports writers should stick to sports. The same goes for gaming media or movie critics or anyone else.
Unfortunately there is a subset of progressivism that insists that everything it believes be in your face all the time as if using any platform available to you and shouting the loudest somehow makes you a better person. There are no safe havens of discussion anymore where you can be left alone regardless of your beliefs. Want to get away from politics for a while? Too bad. Conform or be badgered.
Gaming media has its share of this nonsense. Sports media is the worst though.
So refreshing to see a balanced viewpoint on this.
This is some weird wild stuff here. As I don't visit any of the so called gaming 'journalist' sites and am not a twit, I guess I have been out of the loop for quite a while, but now the a forum I frequent seems to be jumping on the social justice warrior bandwagon, I feel, as a gamer, and a guy, I need to get in this.The 1st I heard of this was from Thunderfoot's thorough thrashing of SJW Anita Sarkeesian. Latest video here, and ya, he's made a hobby of just thrashing her, just as she has made a hobby (oh, I mean 160k) from trashing the games we play.
I found a great 1 minute video that sums this Anita up in less than a minute.
IMHO, this sums up the entire feminist SJW warrior movement into gaming 'journalism'. These 'people' that don't even like games feel the need to get into this space, traditionally for male geeks, spit on it, tear it down, and reinvent it with the feminist lens.
I was just reading about how SJW Samantha Allen has just quit games journalism for the (very over the top reactions) statement that hiring 2 white guys is anti justice warrior. Ya, apparently if you hire white guys now, you are anti justice.
Here are some of the reactions from people that support Samantha and the typical mindset of the SJW infection that is moving very rapidly into gaming journalism.
I have looked at some of the 'credentials' of these types that feel entitled to voice their opinions onto the gaming culture, and it seems that Gender Studies is the big prereq that you should have now, because god forbid you don't hire someone with a gender studies degree, to hell with a journalism degree, or game development experience, or even any type of youtube following about gaming, all you need are a pile of tumblrettes.
http://samanthaleighallen.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/samantha_allen_cv.pdf education Women's, Gender and Sexuality Studies PhD ProgramEmory UniversityGeorge W. Woodruff FellowExpected completion in 2015GPA of 4.0 BAs in Women's & Gender Studies and LinguisticsRutgers, the State University of New JerseyGraduated May 2010GPA of 4.0, summa cum laude publications“Whither the Transvestite? Theorising Male-to-Female Transvestism in Feminist and Queer Theory” forthcoming in Feminist Theory 15.1 (April 2014)
http://samanthaleighallen.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/samantha_allen_cv.pdf
education
Women's, Gender and Sexuality Studies PhD ProgramEmory UniversityGeorge W. Woodruff FellowExpected completion in 2015GPA of 4.0
BAs in Women's & Gender Studies and LinguisticsRutgers, the State University of New JerseyGraduated May 2010GPA of 4.0, summa cum laude
publications“Whither the Transvestite? Theorising Male-to-Female Transvestism in Feminist and Queer Theory” forthcoming in Feminist Theory 15.1 (April 2014)
My opinion of "Women's & Gender Studies and Linguistics"?The perfect mixture of how to manipulate people into a hate filled ideology and use oppression complex to silence opponents and garner support.
Now, I did not look, or will look at the reaction on twitter, I assume it was bad and I will not contradict or defend rape or other physical threats, doxxing, or any other of that immature, maybe dangerous behavior so many do behind being anonymous. That does not mean I will not also call out this absolute crap, as many others are doing, we (as in men and boys) just have to stop giving them ammo to feed their oppression complexes. To all the guys out there that don't agree this is wrong or secretly condone or contribute to this, have a listen to Mundane Matt and please take this advice. We have to stop with this type of attack, and do it rationally and respectfully, well, as respectfully as you can while banging your head on the keyboard.
We will not stop, we are not dumb animals for being masculine, we are not automatically wrong and anti-justice for defending what we like. We are actually gaining momentum.
enjoy this just released video.
Our kickstarter campaign for Divinity: Original Sin has gotten quite some criticism on its original poster art. Apparently it was deemed to be sexistic and women unfriendly by the way the female protagonist was portrayed: with a bare belly. A bare belly was for some enough a trigger to send our company enough hate and threatening mails to persuade my boss to ask me to change the cover. I did, but did so reluctantly. Disagreeing wholeheartedly with the claim of the artwork being sexistic, the better half of me decided to meet "offended-by-design" people somewhere in the middle. In the world of journalism there are channels that take an aggressive stance against everything they judge even remotely sexistic and in many instances denying the word of opposition by disabling criticism and reactions on their articles or blogs. Also blackmails in the form of "change your game art or we won't publish a single word about you." is a common behavior found among those. http://orogion.deviantart.com/journal/Save-the-Boob-plate-380891149
Our kickstarter campaign for Divinity: Original Sin has gotten quite some criticism on its original poster art. Apparently it was deemed to be sexistic and women unfriendly by the way the female protagonist was portrayed: with a bare belly.
A bare belly was for some enough a trigger to send our company enough hate and threatening mails to persuade my boss to ask me to change the cover. I did, but did so reluctantly. Disagreeing wholeheartedly with the claim of the artwork being sexistic, the better half of me decided to meet "offended-by-design" people somewhere in the middle.
In the world of journalism there are channels that take an aggressive stance against everything they judge even remotely sexistic and in many instances denying the word of opposition by disabling criticism and reactions on their articles or blogs. Also blackmails in the form of "change your game art or we won't publish a single word about you." is a common behavior found among those.
http://orogion.deviantart.com/journal/Save-the-Boob-plate-380891149
Before writing about games, Alexander studied theater, with a two-year degree from New York City's American Academy of Dramatic Arts. When she's not gaming, she's being a little too obsessed with indie bands and the local music scene in Brooklyn, where she currently resides.
Simply put, as a society, we've decided "feminism is good" which has given those claiming to espouse beliefs as such (most feminists have quite reasonable beliefs) free reign to reason unquestionably. To question one is to be thrown in with the minority of idiots that treat women like crap and should be banned immediately for their behavior. The current state of affairs IMO is just a direct result of the combination of not having been banning offending males and and allowing the more extreme feminists to reason in a vacuum.
I really want to know what percentage of guys actually treat women like crap online... Surely it can't be that large...
I live beside one of the largest universities in Canada, home of the Unreal Engine and Blackberry. I have asked a few at the local pubs (not recently though) about woman in their fields, which were typically male dominated, and they love it. No guy below 40 maybe wants to be part of anything that is a sausage fest as one put it. Ask them about feminists in their class, and watch them turn a little white and stutter to find words that if someone overheard could be misconstrued or taken out of context and get them thrown out of school.
This is the typical attitude I find from most guys, they love woman, they love working with them, but anyone with a hate filled ideology scares the living shit out of them. I just read an article where guys on campus wont even buy a girl a drink anymore is becoming the norm. "I just want to get through school without ever having to defend myself for dating or even talking to a girl". EDIT: Should have added that quote was paraphrasing my nephew, but it did say similar in the article, I just can't seem to find the damn thing now. If someone persists, I will find it.
EDIT 2: Found it
http://washingtonexaminer.com/fallout-from-campus-sexual-assault-hysteria-college-men-now-suspicious-of-women/article/2552346
GOD I despise those social justice warrios! They weren't around in the 80'ies or 90'ies and we DON'T need'em now either!
I know why they've come to gaming now though. It's no longer a niche thing but a mainstream thing, thus the politically correct apparently must invade this area as well....and they won't stop until everything is decadent and supportive of their biologycorrupting beliefs!
When I start my YouTube channel I may mention these things and I won't stop unless I get an ultimatum from YouTube admins of: "Stop or get your channel shut down".
Dunno where you were in the 80s and 90s....but they were already around just fine in the 60s and 70s .....can't say much re the 50s....I didn't give a toss about then....wasn't even at school yet....
That sounds awesome, let me know when it's up and I will help spread the word.
As for getting you channel taken down, I wouldn't worry about that to much. Fair use, while we still have it, is great, and if someone pulls your video, it seems to have a Streisand Effect now and will just make you more popular. For an example, Mundane Matt did probably the 1st video on Zoe Q and she got it pulled, a few popular people that follow Matt spread that around and a small fire in a can spread across the world, and fast! So learning how to push buttons without actually spreading hate is a great tool. Just don't turn into one of those awful click-bait sites, please.
I don't want to stray to far off topic, but you are old as fuck and I know you like classic rock and general music of that era.
Now, I went to high school in the 80's. When everyone was listening to those horrible 'hair bands' like Ratt, Bon Jovi and Twisted Sister, I was listening to Janis Joplin, Cream, Pink Floyd (yes the early stuff), and many other bands from the late 60's and early 70's. I also loved Jazz and Blues. A ton of my favorites from all genres were from female artists. I read articles and interviews from both male and females, read a few biographies, and never heard of any of this crap mentioned in the video. He mentions misogynistic songs by specific artists, which I think were cherry picked but I could be wrong as lyrics were not as important to me as the music, and goes on and on about how this male dominated industry. As I got a little older, I got into Punk and what was called Alt Rock, with bands like Talking Heads, Lou Reed, Bowie and The Clash. This is a time were woman played a lot bigger role in rock, but for the most part I found unimpressive.I have a few questions for anyone that maybe is more knowledgeable then I. Ya, the geriatric crowd Were these feminist cherry picking one or two songs lyrics from the artists mentioned, or were they generally misogynistic in there writing?If a person grows up loving female sung songs, would they actually not listen to them if they played the electric guitar? I really can't get past this point myself. Maybe someone can play devils advocate and mansplain this to me.If woman were allowed in the industry and were not 'allowed' to play with electrics, could it be just because they suck at it, or didn't want to take the time to learn it? I loved Janis and seen her play anything, Grace Slick as well.I was a big big fan of music and hearing stuff like this just makes my skin crawl for some reason. Is this actually what a gender studies class is like?
Well...you can't go too far wrong there....my first bought album [one of those black round things] was Pearl...by 72 I had everything Floyd had ever done....including bootlegs [and obviously everything since]....and a mate once swapped notes with Clapton....
Censorship in lyrics was [mostly] an American thing....prudish Bible belt [and still is....saw Kate Miller-Heidke last friday and she mentioned the list of words the radio stations wouldn't allow....curiously 'asshole was one....but 'arsehole' was not - kinda moron-typical].
It took 'forever' for female musicians in mainstream rock to be taken seriously....Suzi would be sure to enlighten you there...
I didn't bother with your tube link....an hour plus of my arteries hardening doesn't appeal...
Back 'more' on topic....
Bra burning is a lot older than some modern 'feminist' still at college... and I still remember the counter-culture rag from the RMIT 'lampooning' Germaine Greer with a gynaecologist's-view of her [in cartoon form] on the front page.... That was 1972 and I was in first year Architecture [RMIT - Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology].
About the same time my 'arty' sister was at Prahran Tech doing Arts...with the guys from Daddy Cool ...and one of her works was a photo super-imposition of the Queen and a naked flat-mate....more social finger-poking...
....whilst my hat [beanie] was used to take up a collection for the life-drawing models who [being female] were hopelessly underpaid - and only doing it to support themselves as students.
Go back another 90 years and you'd have 'suffragettes'.... far more significant issues re 'equality'.
Radicalizing of ANYTHING is BAD. It applies to a lot MORE than 'just' religion....
Somehow I think the drawing models being underpaid had nothing to do with being female, and everything to do with being in a dead end support role for a profession with no money in it. It may be a painful, uncomfortable job, but that doesn't mean the people doing portrait drawings are going to end up wealthy, successful artists.
It was a subject called 'fine art' one of 44 in the ARCHITECTURE 6 year course.
There IS such a thing as 'wealthy' Architects [but I'm not one of them]...
Ahh, finally a breath of fresh air in what has become a toxic swamp.
http://girlagainstfeminism.wordpress.com/2014/08/26/why-girls-cant-handle-video-games-2/
ya, I had to steal that from one of the comments.
Also, checkout Karen Straughan's (A.K.A. Girl Writes What) response. GWW does some brilliant work, I highly recommend you look at her video blogs and lectures.
In the response is also a video about triggers which was fantastic.
Watch that and then head over to
http://www.wtop.com/41/3625924/Trigger-warnings-make-their-way-into-college-classrooms
My breath of fresh air turned so toxic, I need a bio-hazard suit.
EDIT: I actually remembered using the term "trigger warning" to a friend that didnt get to see the hockey game between Toronto and New York. "Trigger warning, New York won", and he still ended up in a ball on the floor sucking his thumb. So I know 1st hand it doesn't work.
I felt like I was listening to my girlfriend rant about feminists the entire time I was reading that... The writing style, when she started MOBAs, etc... that was weird...
Related to the discussion, multiple developers sign an open letter to end the hate.
I am not sure why this issue is such a lightning rod to passionate feelings. Imagine if all this energy were dedicated to protesting the real issues in the world, like the TPP, financial crimes, hard analysis of climate science, the surveillance state, etc.
To equate this with a non-issue, is to throw the feelings of millions of men and boys under the bus, because it is hate directed at a curtain demographic. This is typical of people thinking where females are aloud to have hurt 'feelings' and men are supposed to 'suck it up' and ignore it. Well guess what, they have hit their breaking point and have had their fill of social justice warriors telling them what they should like, and you are a misogynist pig if you don't agree.
EDIT:
Please stop the hate Gamers believe that everyone, no matter what gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or religion has the right to play games, criticize games and make games without getting harassed or threatened. It is the diversity of our community that allows games to flourish. when we see threats of violence or harm in comments on Steam, YouTube, Twitch, Twitter, Facebook or reddit, we ALWAYS take a minute to report them on the respective sites. WHENEVER we see hateful, harassing speech, take a public stand against it and make the gaming community a more enjoyable space to be in.We are asking indie developers, AAA developers, and other folks to stop branding gamers as neckbearded, misogynistic, hatefueled, ignorant, homophobic, idiots.While hate exists in ALL demographics, gamers are no exception. However like most demographics, most gamers are kind, open minded, good hearted and love our fellow gamers.Stop the hate. http://www.change.org/p/the-gaming-industry-please-stop-the-hate?recruiter=147447955&utm_campaign=twitter_link&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=share_petition
Gamers believe that everyone, no matter what gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or religion has the right to play games, criticize games and make games without getting harassed or threatened. It is the diversity of our community that allows games to flourish.
when we see threats of violence or harm in comments on Steam, YouTube, Twitch, Twitter, Facebook or reddit, we ALWAYS take a minute to report them on the respective sites.
WHENEVER we see hateful, harassing speech, take a public stand against it and make the gaming community a more enjoyable space to be in.We are asking indie developers, AAA developers, and other folks to stop branding gamers as neckbearded, misogynistic, hatefueled, ignorant, homophobic, idiots.While hate exists in ALL demographics, gamers are no exception. However like most demographics, most gamers are kind, open minded, good hearted and love our fellow gamers.Stop the hate.
http://www.change.org/p/the-gaming-industry-please-stop-the-hate?recruiter=147447955&utm_campaign=twitter_link&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=share_petition
I know plenty, and woman are very welcome in the communities, what is not welcome are fucking social justice warriors.
EDIT2:
Treats them like badges of honor, because man can be as strong as woman... oh wait... what?
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