Hello , I absolutely dislike the 3d hexagon map , it doesn't make me feel like in space but on a flat terrain with some painted stars over .
IT feels like civilization rather than a space experience .
Also all those big huge suns with all planets visible ....
IMHO
The galaxy shoudl be made 3d , navigable in 3d with Only stars and larger celestial objects visible , then when you focus on one star it highlights only the Sun and the proximity stars reacheable , then if you double click or select the sun it opens a new 3d map of the whole system, ......that's how I always liked and wanted a space game . not a bidimensional hex map but a whole 3d space .
if it has issues then please solve them but do not serve a flat boring and ugly 2d map please .
Also stoo with the cartoonish look and all bright colors, on map , please use realistic belieavable colors .
While 3d looks fantastic and is great in a FPS/MMO/RTS style game it is not as good for a TBS type game. Now you could have a 3dish looking TBS game like Homeworld that gives the feel of 3d but is actully still a 2d game. I do like turning on my hexagons so I would not want them removed.
No problem , the developer stated they will keep the hex flat map .
So this ends my contribution to that point .
I am just sad that I will have to wait for other 4x games to be corageous and future oriented .
Honestly the 3d has nothing to do with beeing only good for Real time . I have provided plenty of samples of how it could be implemented in a different way .
It just would need some smart implementation , some thinking and then development , it doesn't means that if you have a bad experience with 3d then it means its not good for that kind of games, lets not forget that there are many samples of it already .
Also by default the Hex map as said different times its jjust a portray of a generalistic civilization like game . replace the stars background with anything else and you get civilization .
I dunno why some people here are only seeing close to their nose and can't see the future and the wide opportunities that it woudl oiffer .
too bad for that game to be developed in antiquated way , the moment it will be out it will be already an old game .
thanks for attention and have fun with the flat hex map .
"List all the Problems that you think 3d woudl rise :"I find your posting style aggressive and dismissive of other people's stance starting with the OP I think this leads to the level of aggressive response you have elicited. Calm down your original input so it isn't a declaration of a war of concepts and you may receive less aggressive responses. Maybe not less passionate on this subject, but less personally aggressive. You reap what you sow and you come across as a troll whether you realize that or not. I am not surprised you perceive the responses as troll-like. Anyone who starts with emotional trigger words like "boring", "ugly". and "cartoonish" is either very very clumsy with language, or just itching for a fight. Which is it in your case? To many, it seemed you were just itching for a fight. It was a challenge for me to respond to you reasonably. I am now thinking it may have been a waste of time.We'll try. I would find such a 3D game completely unplayable because I would get lost in the 3 dimensions. I don't play paintball for that reason. I get lost playing Assassin's Creed. (especially when running for my life!) I don't think I am alone in that issue. If that is not enough objective reason for us to non-insultingly discuss the subject, then we have nothing to talk about, do we?I think GalCiv3 will not be the game you are looking for. When you find the one you do like, please invest in its future like we did for this one
Blistering reply deleted. Not worth it.
If you really want to talk about it, start another thread and I will try to respond. I will disagree with you on many points, but we could try. Otherwise, I have to conclude you came here itching for a fight and are satisfied with the results.
I am actually investing in other three games in development , I am not agreeing with all their decisions but those are marginal .
I would have liked to invest as well into this but the problem is that hex/flat map approach and the high rise of the payment . 100 usd is way too much I think but I don't complain much about it as long as its worth eventually .
But what I complain is hex .
Do you say that words like "Cartoonish" and "ugly" are not worth consideration while then you bring up arguments like " I get lost in 3d " , I get lost playing assassin creed " wich brings me to think that you barely have understood what I am talking about or that you just do not like someone criticize your puppet game .
Well I am honest and brutal , sure but its what people looking at the game think about and won't come to tell you . I prefer 1000 times more that someone tells me the brute reality than keep dreaming in my own buit fantasy world . The shoking news are a mean for a change and an improvement , not a let down . Shoudl be the reason to aim higher and not be demoted .
Now to the real points do you want to be serious about argumenting the reasons why 3d is good or not? Then list the problems that you woudl get by using 3d and post possible solutions .
And no not write simplicistic answers like " I get lost" or " its confusing " ...
I have tested several 3d solutions and they all work finely , perhaps they might be confusing for a supersized galazy with lots of worlds, suns , systems , moons , planets and so on ... but if tought smartly and organized in a good way it can be very satisfiying ....
for example a 3d map coudl be navigable in both dimensions 2d and 3d . an option could allow Flatten Map imposing a zenithal view with distances between systems keeping the actual distance from the starting point , so a star appearing closer might be actually more distant , a system of color labeling could paint different name colors, a graying system could hghlight only the most nearby stars and making the map more readable ... there are hundred possibilities to make it work .
Just to dismiss the idea because you think it won't work when you didn't even try to invent a solution is not a valid excuse .
there are hundreds possibilities and it just needs goodwill and proactive approach .
What 3d Turn-Based game have you found because I don't recall any? Games like Homeworld are RTS. If you do know of a TBS 3d game let me know because I'd like to check it out. But please no RTS
Does anyone know what Napoleon said when heard of the steam engine?
By the way, I really hope this was your last post Prometheus because there is nothing left for you here. if you do I'll report you and nag Kryo or Islanddog to death till this post is locked.
I think 3D maps are a bit dumb, but have a Sovereign Fate.
DARCA.
And give me lots of karma before you leave!
Stop.
Please keep your "brutal honesty" to yourself. I insist on at least an attempt at civility from my children, let alone from supposedly intelligent adults. People on the internet seem to think that "honesty" and "courtesy" are mutually exclusive. Other people on the internet seem to think that "courtesy" is conversational weakness. Neither is true. If some sort of mutual courtesy is impossible between us, then it is impossible for us to converse.
On to some points....
So, let's see if I can envision and describe my vision. I am at a planet/star zooming about and decide I need to go to another planet. In present visualization, I click on my ship and and click on my destination. This is straightforward. It does flatten a galaxy, which is a bit much since galaxies are actually very thick, but then again thicknees to width ratio makes galaxies thinner than paper, if I understand correctly. A lot depends on what level of visualization you can muster. This flattened galaxy perception seems to be fairly universal to anyone I have watched while they looked a galactic map. It made sense to them instantly.
Now I am looking at a 3D representation of space. Not a galaxy disk, but a 3D chunk of one. How do I arrange the same general overview with planet A and star B so that I can see them at the same time? My experience so far is that the orientation of the camera in 3D is a constant adjustment. You mocked me for bringing up Assassin's Creed, but judging on my experience with that game, orientation in 3 space, especially with some sort of follow camera, seems a non trivial exercise. For programmers and users both. It's not just my lack of eye-hand coordination, it is the constant need to turn around and around to get an overall view of things. It strikes me that it would be a distraction from the strategy level of the game to deal with the visualization. Maybe it something I could learn over time. Maybe not. Do you have words of encouragement on that point?
Am I looking at a 3D array of cubes? Am I looking at things in 3D polar coordinates? If I want to single click to my destination, how does the PC know what I mean in terms of depth perception? I still only have 2 dimensional screen and mouse pad to work with. I have dealt with interactive three dimensional displays in various experimentation levels. They all needed some sort of actual 3D input device to make intuitive sense. I do not see how to get around that in a clean UI manner. If you do, and can get it across to me, I would appreciate that.
Note, I am expecting that we are not doing the 3D equivalent of a first person shooter and everything is done from the viewpoint of a single space ship, that we are dealing with some sort of over all view. Also, I am not talking about space lanes, but actual 3 space. Both are valid views for other games, but not what I am hearing you say as a fully 3D 4X game. If you see it different, please let me know.
What do I gain in game play moving three dimensionally? Some gamer friends put together an interesting real life version of space in 3D. They took the list of the nearest stars, converted the polar coordinates in the reference book to x/y/z, took an empty bedroom where a room-mate had just moved out and hung little balls of glow-painted styrofoam according to the x/y/z coordinates. They had a 3D simulation of near space. It was a great effect. For a while. You could move around and see the various parallax effects. Then it got kind of meh. You stood still and your eyes saw a 2 dimensional display of bright dots without depth. As we stood in the dark among the stars, we talked about 3D as gamers. We couldn't see where it would add to movement, to maze and obstacle avoidance, or battle. Especially battle. It was either dogfights in space, or big blobs of fleets going at each other. The dogfights bring out the tacticians in everyone, but they quickly came to the conclusion that battle without terrain is much less interesting and variable. In fact, it seemed that a lot of the things that made that made strategy enjoyable in many ways got lost in the addition of another dimension. It was just to easy to go around anything. All battles were effectively without terrain, all goals just a minor detour away. On beyond the visualization, what will make being in 3D strategically interesting?
Not as coherently stated as I wished but an offering of polite conversation as best as I could conjure.
Your turn.
Darca, no need to be nasty. Prometheus is entitled to his opinion and preferences. Calling people and opinion names is not what this community is about. Just have a proper discussion or stop as put succinctly by Island Dog.
Please.
Yes, discussions and opinions about the games and many other topics are more than welcome. People might have other ideas and suggestions, and should be respected.
Even though a certain feature might not be feasible, it's always good to hear feedback either way.
That was as sincere as the Gaza peace talks. Lol
Really erichild you may have just put an half hour or more into this post when the devs said they won't do it. Its way easier and funnier to put five minutes into making funny little sarcastic comments like I'm doing now.
charon2112 said Prometheus was a PITA to me. Take this from me, I was a bit off my rocker when I first started posting and I found my balance (eventually-ish). I spell decently half the time now and I haven't made a meta long post in a while nor have I been spending hours at a time writing mostly meaningless shit. So relax and laugh at this, unsubscribe then go out and buy a box of cats and try posting on anything that's halfway interesting while remembering that family is the most important overall.
¿?¿? What?¿?¿? I was telling the little birdie to leave the nest and fly away free, and if he came back there wouldn't be any worms him so to speak.
Plus I was sticking up for him most of the time and compared his idea to the steam engine! PLUS I do appreciate his zeal to press for this but I openly think its flat out dumb! PLUS! my name is DARCA!
DARCA1213 is your avatar's name. I won't tell you my name for you although you might be able to guess. You have a very weird concept of sticking up for someone and if anyone deserves to be banned from the forums, guess who I would lobby for.
What could 3-d add to the game? well, I think and believe it could add some realism, for example you could then program the planets surrounding a sun to move on their orbits around their sun, rather than the dullness of having planets stuck on some arbitrary tile near its designated star system. You would probably have to let the Game-Engine plot a course for you to move from where you are to where you want to be to colonize a planet or attack a competitor or whatever.
But as we have been notified the topic is dead. I'll let it die regretfully.
I have visions of Gaza peace talk diplomats discussing 3D space warfare in earnest tones and multiple accents. The passions run high until everyone realizes they all love 4X games and peace breaks out spontaneously across the region. Maybe not.
There is a difference between funny little sarcastic comments and nastiness. Others have pointed that out to you. I really enjoy funny little sarcastic comments. I see no reason to abide nastiness from anyone.
The post was never about what the devs would do. The post was about being as open and inviting as possible to people with different ideas and opinions. This goes for everyone, including prometheus and you, regardless of the temptations towards nastiness they offer. It is part of what I see this forum offering as a community.
My dear fellow, you with your current philosophy and previous post is hypocritical. You dare tell me I have a piece of saw dust in my eye and don't remove the plank from yours?
I had a minor over site of wording and digi-cons. That was unfortunately misinterpreted as hostile when all intentions were to be a friendly warning not to waste time on a dead post directed at our now parted friend Prometheus who showed no interest in this game.
You could say I had grown tired of chuckling while you all were played the fool arguing over what was settled. And to say I actually was not open to the idea given my full history of posts and points I had previously made on this forum and the verbal interactions I and Prometheus exchanged could only be described as polite up to the alleged occurrence of "nastiness".
DARCA
Sometimes it's advised just to walk away from a thread before the situation which has already been addressed, continues to go in a direction that wasn't intended.
Now is one of those times.
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