Update 5/25/2017
Well, I started a thread back in Dec 2011 that’s seen a lot of activity (some 922,000 views over the course of a few years apparently...). That thread had a good deal of tips/strategies/discussions about League of Legends from new and old players alike. You can find the previous thread (now archived) here: https://forums.joeuser.com/413863. I think its time to start fresh with a new thread.
What’s this thread all about?For those that followed the previous thread, the type of content you see here will be fairly consistent to what you are used to. Please consider this a place to discuss LoL related content as you like. I'll do the same and treat the thread as a blog as well where I talk about what’s going on with me in LoL. Feel free to jump in and join the discussion if you like.
Quick background on meI played a lot of Demigod as pacov/cheesuscrust. Back in August 2011, I started getting heavily involved in League of Legends, and folks from the community were kind enough to help me figure things out. I play LoL most nights, stream, make videos and it’s my main gaming interest.
Some links
Thanks man!
All tiers? So Bronze V too? If so, that would really throw off the statistics. There is a dark place in EloHell where 4v5's and even 4v4's have their own meta. Using statistics that poll those games would be slightly suspect I imagine.
But even Champion.GG that only takes into account Plat+ games is crap if you take it too seriously. Are people buying the item that helps them win? Or are they just buying the item when they're winning?
Awesome stuff Thunder!
As for that GP, Soraka/Zilean game of doom I think me not playing mid teemo would of helped and winning before they scaled completely but I don't think any one expected that team to be that hard to deal with.
Thanks buddy. The 5th game in the series had a really rough start. That was some good advice about not giving up that you gave me!
At all tiers, not all tiers combined, even just challenger games are averaging above a 60% win rate. Lolking has a breakdown by tier, as well top item picks, unfortunately they do not list items by win percentage, just popularity.
If that were true, the same could be said of Zeke's, which is also a low pick percentage item with a 60%+ win rate. As it's primarily useful in the laning phase, I don't see it being true for either item beyond a possible early kill advantage in their lane. Their state at that point shouldn't be that large a factor in who wins, an early game item that pushes 80% is a little too successful to just chalk it up to being ahead.
and a 2nd darius pentakill at worlds. Nice job, rito!
Been watching/listening to some very high elo thresh coaching. Lots of good tips - covered a bit on the logic timing of swapping to coin from relic, when to get ruby crystal (guy recommends its much more frequently - I get it once in a blue moon). Also provided many suggestions on proper warding theory - not just crap like where to ward, but specifically where you need to ward, situations late game where you'd even buy additional green wards to counteract sweeping. Watched both vids on thresh by lastshadow9. YOUTUBE
Guess I am diamond 4 again! Better hurry up and get challenjor since TSM is trying out people.
You better hurry up and get demoted to Diamond 5 again. hue.
What's the highest you've made it, mr cow. Diamond 4?
Game 1 skt vs ahq is entertaining at least. Curious to see how this pans out.
Anyway, I'm trying to put into practice a bunch of the things I learned from the thresh coaching vids. Unfortunately for me, a bunch of it is retraining - little things like looking the other direction when trying to hook when possible (makes it more difficult to dodge without the added line of sight visual cue). More complex things like hyper aggression early game. Deciding if I'll take the korean approach and actually start with hook - not exactly a fan, but it does create more pressure and zoning potential when you are trying to rush to level 2. Getting used to the rune page setup change (common setup is the subbing in added AD). Deciding if I'm going to respec my ranged support mastery setup.
Top lane ganks - quite a bit of what I've been reading is that its common among good supports to go top or mid after immediately after the 1st back for a gank - this means tons of pressure if you pull if off with the jungler and HOPEFULLY a minimal trade off in cs for bot lane. That strat typically relies on a mobo boots rush - another thing I don't usually do.
Itemization changes - still trying to rethink by build order/timing. I had been default building the tier 2 gold upgrade. That gets more dicy as I'm looking to not build FOTM on thresh and instead swap to coin. Then there's the decision to do a mobo boots rush or not - which 90% of the time means sacrificing an early sightstone and having to get green additional green wards (and you don't get the tier 2 gold upgrade for added income). This makes the roam mid or top more painful if it fails for you, but it should alleviate pressure on the top laner.
Back to top lane support ganks early -that seems to be a pretty big theme amongst higher elo players from what I've been watching lately. Kind of surprising to me as honestly, I've seen early top lane support ganks maybe 10-15 times out of all the league games I've ever played. Perhaps its more common at higher elos because your top lane teammate is more likely to capitalize on it and and snowball their lane as a result that it offsets the 2-5 cs potentially lost bot lane. But even that play could turn a bunch. For instance, last night I made a top lane roam and the jungler popped in making it 3v1 in our favor. I think we took the turret immediately, but due to the time spent, my adc suffered a bit more. Still - adc missing some cs and us taking some damage on a bot turret should be worth the kill/tower gained.
Then there's adapting to the vision game with ruby sightstone and being more proactive with pinks + picking up additional greens late game. Put all this together and its actually a pretty major rework to how I normally run support. Anyway, I'll be going through a bit of an adaptation for a bit (meaning I'm likely going to be a bit more sloppy as I try to figure things out).
One other thing - I think a pretty big adv caused by a top lane support gank - if you get a kill, you likely end tp pressure bot lane or dragon for a bit as well.
Let me answer why this roam and gank stuff isn't going to work as well in games with the people we play with with a question:
Why do I play Hecarim in almost all of our ranked games?
(Hint: I don't really like Hecarim THAT much)
They key is to look at the map and not do things blindly just because you watched some video of some high ELO guy doing something. You have to make a good decision based on what is actually happening in the current game, and that might not match up with what you see in the video all the time. It isn't fun for everybody else when you try and force something when it doesn't make sense. It's fine, of course, if it does make sense in the given game.
Remember, high ELO games have fundamental differences from our games. It's not always relevant, but it can be.
You only know how to play 4 junglers? waka waka
Naw - I get what you mean, but as its a completely new concept/technique to me, I'm not going to automatically know the best way to implement it. Bunch of learning to do. I'm thinking if I ran ali I'll be incredibly likely to try a gank top like that, but I'm not sure the best way to go about the thresh gank top. Anyway, bad news - I'm probably going to be trying this a bunch as long as minor conditions are met and then start reducing the number of reasons I'd try it - gotta figure out what's good n whats poop.
man... mountain is... problematic.
wow... I can't believe skt lost... i mean...
Yo pacov, nice games botlane recently.
Since i know you've been working on your Thresh and stuff, couple comments. Hopefully it doesn't seem too out of place - but let me know if it is! Obviously i am rusty as well, and there have been a few miscommunications either with me being oom or me using Ez E just as you use lantern, etc, so i'm sure i have stuff to improve on also! Espiecially since i'm still getting used to my mouse and i sometimes press the recall button instead of the ping button
1. In the Thresh/Ez vs Jinx/Bard game you got REALLY tilted for CS level 1. It sort of made us get chunked to 50% because Jinx was getting "free" rockets on us since our moves were so coreographed. i understand the desire to proc your relic shield ASAP so that we can heal up, but we don't want to get chunked either...
2. This can easily be fixed by voice-comms but at the same time this shouldn't require that much chatter... we certainly had sometimes where i'd leave up multiple creeps for relic shield (this one time in particular i face-tanked 3 minions while no enemies were in lane and you were right next to me and didn't notice!) and then i'd take them then the very next wave you'd blow everything for relic shield procs. We need a little bit better communication, and i think it's okay to focus mostly on just getting 1 proc at a time (when your E is charged up and it looks like there's no action...). It obviously hurts BOTH of our gold generation when that sort of stuff happens.
3. Generally we've had pretty good hustle when it comes to being aggressive... no real complaints there. i think sometimes the mid roams aren't super successful BUT that is a skill that takes a lot of practice (from the ADC, the Support AND the Mid) so that's just something that takes more time to maximize...
Ah - I guess your girlfriend from England finally let you use the internet message boards again, eh? For anyone that doesn't know, PeterDumpTruck (PDT) got pretty mad at hedgie last night and remembered who he was wrong, so I basically confirmed every single thing PDT had to say re: hedgie's origin.
re: bot lane - yah fun times. Glad to discuss bot lane stuff/hear feedback advice. I'm starting to get a little more comfortable re: the adjust playstyle I'm working towards.
re: 1 - that's either something I did wrong or you did wrong, and I'm not quite sure which. In one game, we did a gromp or dbls start. The main reason to that is either to get 1 of us to level 2 or to take an all in shot if we hit level 2 first (which we should hit 2 first). We didn't hit 2 first though, which had a lot to do with you not pounding down cs to give us that all in opportunity. Eg lack of communication - but I will add that I really think the only reason in a thresh lane to take a jungle camp is for that level 2 opp - so no point in doing it if we aren't shooting for that. Prob just lack of communication.
And another time where we didn't start gromp or dbls, I was also more aggressive than you were wanting to be by trying to quickly push for a level 2. As part of my new playstyle, I'm really looking for hyper aggressive level 2 ops. That's not to say I should be always shooting for that... but I kind of am and maybe need to adjust. Not exaclty sure
2 - relic shield procs - yeah, wasn't spot on. I typically try to get my e charged unless I'm laning with a kali. Something for me to work on. If I get frustrated, I just ping on w/e I want to avoid confusion.
3 - I think I over compensated a bit with mid roams 1 game after PDT has a really bad showing in the previous game. I know I left you be a bit, but I'm not really sure what the best call is to do sometimes - another thing to figure out over time.
Re: Support Roams
I played an inhouse with MadCast a little while back playing Corki and had a good Thresh in lane with me. Good mechanically. We got really far ahead from a gank. When I cam back from my first shop I was ready to zone/kill our opponents, then take a Dragon.
So the Thresh roams mid. They spot him and their bot lane proceed to zone me out while he hides in a bush while the enemy mid hides under tower. For what seemed like five minutes. Eventually he goes out to dive the enemy mid, doesn't go well, has to go back to base. I'm under my tower zoned from Gold and Xp the whole time. He comes back to lane and instead of far ahead, we're far behind.
Not an expert on when the Support should roam but my 2 cents is... don't turn a won bot lane into a lost lane for a gank that might work. Roaming doesn't automatically do that but it does if you can't get it done quickly. Mobi boots and pots are ideal so you can get there quick and heal up after your gank and get back bot!
Re: Thresh Procs And Hedgie Pacov Lanes
1. Watched that game. Hedgie seemed to do his best to try to "pound CS" and got pounded back really really hard by Jinx rockets. Ez isn't a strong early game ADC so expecting him to be Graves or Caitlyn isn't realistic.
I wouldn't try the Krug strat in the future if you guys lane together with Thresh and Ez. Thresh is okay at taking them, but he's no Braum/Leona/Morgana. Ezreal... I can't think of too many ADC's less suited for it. Or less suited to your new level 2 hyper-aggressive playstyle. If you ever go back to your hyper-passive GP/10 Thresh, Ez is a much better choice.
2. My favorite method by far is pinging. If Thresh wants a CS, ping it. If the Marksman wants to remind Thresh that a Cannon/Melee is getting low and to take it, ping. It's less distracting than talking about it, and good practice for SoloQ when you're not gonna be in Teamspeak with your Support/ADC.
3. In PDT games, sometimes there isn't a perfect call. Depends on what your goal is, winning the game or keeping PDT from tilting maybe? Can't really do both. If he's not playing Malz, you can't really do either IMO.
So my whole point earlier was that support roams require precision lane control. That is, you can't just roam off whenever you want because you saw it on a Challenger stream or whatever. High elo players have really good lane control.
You can roam when the lane is near your own tower so the ADC isn't completely screwed. But if you go off on Thresh's magical journey when the lane is pushed...yeah. You might not even break even if you get the gank. If you don't get the kill you will be completely hosed.
I asked someone over on lol summoner school that did a high end level support ama (challenger tier - also STAHP - I know I'm not challenger) about roaming, specifically with the loss to the bot lane in mind. Here's what I posted - the whole article is worth a read as its specifically about roaming as a support: https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/3obax8/how_to_properly_roam_as_a_support/cvw02nu?context=3.
Not a fan of screwing the bot lane over and that's my specific concern with roaming as well.
I think its worth talking about the mindset of the adc a sec- sorry if im rehashing something someone else said (in between games atm). I know if I'm playing as adc, I'm really, really annoyed if i make it back to lane and the support isn't with me. Feels like forever. But - if that means the team got a top turret or a kill, its often worth it. The problem as we go into lower elo (gold and lower imo), is the adc dying and playing foolish out of frustration if the support is roaming. Im not doing it perfect ofc.
really getting sick of zileans...
i think Thunder pointed out most of it:
Watched that game. Hedgie seemed to do his best to try to "pound CS" and got pounded back really really hard by Jinx rockets.
To add to it: we "decided" to split EXP. Not sure if that's a big deal or not, but yeah, neither of us got level 2. The enemy lane didn't leash, so we didn't get to lane first (and allow you to proc your relic shield to heal). THEN, in addition, we were both trying to hit the same creeps: You for relic, me just to try to get us to level 2.
Our plan is so obvious that it's very easy for Jinx to punish our extremely obvious moves. Which she did. It was even worse since she was able to get splash damage on both of us. In the future, if you are playing a melee-ish character who is tanking, i'd just let you take all/most of the EXP (last hit the big guy) so that you can hit level 2, brute-force the lane and just proc your relic shields and heal back up so that this thing doesn't happen again. It works really well with Leona.
OK - lets give that start a go if it ever happens again (you know... because junglers let ya start gromp all the time). I'll take full xp in that instance and attempt to bully and get relic procs. You think that's the best way to do it? Support hits 2 prior to lane? Not really sure. Not going to complain about that start though.
Oo
i think that makes sense if both of the following are true:
1. the ADC is a scaling ADC with poor early game waveclear (most the champs i play...). So NOT Corki, Lucian, Graves.
2. the Support is a tank starting relic shield.
This seems to be the pattern that LCS players use (eg, they give Leona/Braum the ealry level 2 in 2v2 lanes). Champs like Morgana, Bard have the ability to control jungle monsters a little better and don't have the ability to heal up with relic shield: makes more sense to have the ADC take the gold then.
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