Update 5/25/2017
Well, I started a thread back in Dec 2011 that’s seen a lot of activity (some 922,000 views over the course of a few years apparently...). That thread had a good deal of tips/strategies/discussions about League of Legends from new and old players alike. You can find the previous thread (now archived) here: https://forums.joeuser.com/413863. I think its time to start fresh with a new thread.
What’s this thread all about?For those that followed the previous thread, the type of content you see here will be fairly consistent to what you are used to. Please consider this a place to discuss LoL related content as you like. I'll do the same and treat the thread as a blog as well where I talk about what’s going on with me in LoL. Feel free to jump in and join the discussion if you like.
Quick background on meI played a lot of Demigod as pacov/cheesuscrust. Back in August 2011, I started getting heavily involved in League of Legends, and folks from the community were kind enough to help me figure things out. I play LoL most nights, stream, make videos and it’s my main gaming interest.
Some links
oh and gosu's been running a 24 hour unranked to diamond stream - worth a look on twitch to see a good adc doing work
Here is a one-dimensional diagram of players "true" skill (note that this is LOGARITHMIC not LINEAR)
level 1 Bronze Silver Gold Plat Diamond V Diamond I Masters Challenger LCS World Champs
|-------------|---------|-------|------|--------|-------------|-------------|------------|-------------|----------|
All players are on that line. Now, how to measure "true" skill is difficult (mode, median or max?), but it's uncomputable from our perspectives anyway.
There are the two dichotomies of player skill: micro and macro. Keeping your "true" skill constant, it is impossible to improve one without giving up some of the either. If you improve one but leave the other constant, you improved your true skill.
In addition, there's a strong argument that could be made that having a much higher standard deviation of "micro" skill is better at lower skill levels, but "macro" is more important at the top. You can see that with Hai being used in C9 for 1.5 splits despite his wrist/lung injuries: because his macro was so good.
Scripting gives a HUGE benefit to your micro (auto-CSing, flashing impossible skillshots, etc), and a modest benefit to your macro (FoW trackers, ward timers). Players like the Katarina scripter, have really poor macro, but were able to catapult themselves to much higher ranks, despite completely awful macro.
Let's say that the Katarina player have a "true" skill of Plat when using scripts (this is overall true, he did hit plat in 2 weeks).
His skill rating would look like this
Macro |---|-------------------------------------------------| Micro
When playing against opponents who are scripting who have very poor macro, it becomes obvious that they have "trash" decision making. BUT they don't become a "trash" player: their "true" skill level might be just the same as yours. Non-scripters CAN have such mismatching micro/macro scores, and will deserve their rankings just as much.
However, what happens when someone like me? i have pretty decent macro, but my non-teamfight micro is not very good
Macro |-------------|-------| Micro
Suddenly it becomes this (in comparison to my old "true skill"):
Macro |-------------|-----------------------------------------------------------| Micro
Suddenly, i am capable of shooting up. All 50 games on the way up become trivial: i smash my lane opponent, and coordinate with my team. Since i'm auto-CSing i can even type and play at the same time! i don't look like a scripter: i look like a SMURF! Because, i am, effectively smurfing at a level of play much lower than my own.
Once i get to Diamond, because my macro was "alright" before, i might not be as obvious as more micro-inclined players.
Due to our typical "Normal Draft" skill levels of gold/low plat (mostly due to duoing with lower MMR folks), when we do see scripters, we see the ones "on the way up". They are poor-macro players who are towards the end of their climbing, and their poor macro is really catching up to them. i'm sure if you played more SoloQ or only played Normals with Cow, you'd see more "moderate macro" players in mid-plat since they are the ones who benefit the most from scripts. Promos to Diamond V you would see even more!
That said, i wouldn't be surprised if macro-inclined players are somewhat less likely to script (despite being the ones who would benefit the most). Macro-inclined players are more likely to be "Johnnys" than "Timmys", and most Johnnys are going to see scripts as abhorrent.
Just to put this part aside, I bluntly called scripters trash and you seemed to take umbrage with that based on the distinctions you called out... yet I'm guessing you would rather folks not use scripting... which reflects my opinion; albeit less offensively/passionately.
That aside, I think your analysis is interesting and well put. I tend to think that folks already possessing the needed skills (micro/macro) would be less inclined to use scripting. So, like you said, I think you would be less likely to encounter it at certain levels of play than at others.
On another topic, is there any champ you folks have a really difficult time wrapping your head around? I watched a bunch of gosu's vayne only stream yesterday/today. I have never been able to get how to use vayne properly. I see the strengths, but I just don't really ever come online due to poor team fighting - something doesn't quite translate to me. Not being able to team fight as a hyper carry is not really a good thing...
Some ekko stats are out now - some 12k games in sample.
http://champion.gg/champion/Ekko/Middle
44.73% win rate mid
47.2% win rate top.
Ban rate is going way up - 40% min
You don't seem offensive or passionate about the issue. Only disdainful of ALL scripters ability to play the game and you seem to look down your nose at those that use their enemies supposed scripting as an excuse as to why they lost. Which is annoying to those of us who have run into skilled players who use scripts and have gotten curbstomped.
I thought you were changing your tune with your "Look at how OP scripting is!" post but I must have misunderstood.
Of course if you think everyone who is animation cancelling their abilities is a scripter, you might understandably have a very low opinion of how much impact someone who is actually scripting can have in a game. Here's an article that should help you tell the difference. Ironically it features a montage of hi i'm gosu's play.
http://news.gamerunners.gg/lol/top-summoners-2/
Vayne as well for me so I feel you on that one. I simply don't have the mechanical skill to pull her off perhaps.
Other honorable mentions: Kha'Zix, Kayle, Nami, Braum, Rumble. I've wanted at some point to play them well. I've put in some time on each one and I keep giving up cause it just don't click.
I've never played Vayne, but I ran Kog in S2. That's a champ that requires an on the ball team. Vayne is easier, she's got two escapes between the knock back and her tumble, most of the time I see a Vayne stomping, they're using them for safety in team fights, not to do better damage. Depend on the team to drop CC unless you're presented with a golden opportunity to knock a carry into a wall and kill it without being likely to trade 1-1 as a result. When enemy CC gets close, you just peg them, or roll away. She's one of the safest ADC's around during her ultimate.
You decided my example was simply animation canceling. Imagine a world where both scripting and animation canceling exist. Now, maintain that someone could script, animation cancel, both, or simply not know how to do either. Anyway, to be crystal clear, no, of course I don't think animation canceling, orb walking, etc are scripting - or should I say cheating (they can be accomplished via scripting though).
Anyway, consider a person performing a combo involving animation canceling. Who cares. Now imagine them doing the exact same combo in precisely the same way over and over with zero instances of change. It becomes a little suspect. Also add in the same game that player managing an at base execute. It's possible the player was simply "good", but their skill level in lane indicated otherwise... and their pattern of play seemed quite regimented, which actually made it easy to outplay. It's likely not worth it, but here's a very SHORT vid showing the one of the jinx specific scripts
I say its not worth it because again, identifying scripters is crap. You do it visually. You guess unless some goof is playing katarina and streaming while the scripting interface is up and running.
Good article on animation canceling at any rate.
man... I was actually good with Braum for a whole minute.... I think I became quite awful once they changed the width of his q or some other nerf. Now... awful. I'm curious what your thoughts are re: nami. I mean, I get she's not as viable now compared to other supports (imo at least), but what's not clicking? I kind of blow with her ult utilization I think.
Not if you are me. I just don't position myself well at all.
Nami is fantastic, she's just useless if your team is dense. She's fast enough that you can run without buying boots, giving you an extra item while still breaking 400 movement out of combat running support masteries. I run Talisman, Ardent Censer, Rylai's, and Liandry's, you've got good damage, fantastic CC, and if your team has a brain, you're an engage on par with champs like Hecarim. The currently OP Ardent Censer doesn't hurt either, her bouncing heal has a cd of 6 at 40% cdr. Her AP ratios are a bit of a dog, but her base damage numbers are good.
You pop your ult to hit at long range when they're grouped and either pursuing or fleeing, hit the team with Talisman, and follow the tide in to bubble the carries as they get tossed and slowed. If the team is competent, you just wrecked a fight horribly. The range on R is huge, you can hit them from out of nowhere, she's a pretty spanky engage and disengage champ.
What she doesn't do is cover for a shit carry, at all. You can keep stupid people alive better than most supports, but she can't kill for squat and her harass isn't too great. It can be extremely frustrating in bronze/silver, setting up epic team fights that turn out to be epic team fails instead. As a result I play Zyra more often. Less large area CC potential, but much higher damage output, and you can compensate for a fail ass ADC by zoning the enemy with plant rape.
Champions I suck with or are just hard to master:
Zed -> some how never make an impact
Alister -> headbutt + Pulverize combo to hard to master, usually just knock my target away like a derp
Other than that I just know I didn't put enough time in or any time in to learning them (kat, irelia, ahri, fizz, Azir)
That makes a lot more sense and sounds like a definite scripter. But not a very good one. Thanks for not taking my animation canceling comments poorly. I still learn things about this game that I should have known a long time ago so I figure no harm bringing it up just in case.
My point remains that you're not going to often play against Evil Alternate Universe Pacov Who Scripts very often since he's in Diamond. Or banned. If you did play against him right when he started scripting in Plat V, you would lose. Almost every time. It would be very very frustrating. That's all I'm trying to say.
I like Nami. I think she's a good Support still. I want to be good with her so I can quote Little Mermaid lyrics to opponents stuck in bubbles. But I suck with her and don't know why.
Braum... feel he's an extremely high skill floor champ with good not great rewards if you master him. I'm no longer a Support Main so why bother? If I was dedicated to the role still I'd try to learn him again so I had someone to play with Kog and Twitch. As is, Ali/Leona/Thresh are better all around champs who fill a similar role.
Riot made Ali's combo into the easiest thing to do in the game recently.
Turn your Smartcast Range Indicators on. Turn on Activate Ability When You Press Another Ability or whatever it's called.
Hold down W until you're in range of an opponent. Keep pressing W and press Q as well. Headbutt/Pulv combo every time as long as you were in range when you pressed Q.
Made something for ya and myself. https://app.box.com/s/9ygencfvdxdum1qi2fyz58g0uvj96ia9
So, there have been various programs in LoL that have enabled you to appear offline. The last of the existing programs stopped working with this last patch, so a new program is needed. The now nonworking versions are superior to what I've thrown together in that they simply make you appear offline - you can still chat with people - they just don't see you as online in the pals list. My version, however, is more of a direct block of ritos chat server. Now, you still maintain chat abilities in game, but this change blocks you out of chat in the client completely... so, you don't appear on buddy lists. I would only consider using this if you are playing ARAMS or team builder as the loss of chat in the client is a douche thing to do if you are playing normals or ranked imo. Anyway, take a look if you like. Code embedded, batch file in link. Run batch as admin and you are good to go. Easy to toggle on and off.
I down sized the LCS fantasy league to 4 teams. There are 3 spots open.
Hedgie, Karl, Swan seemed most interested out of every in playing. I hope to draft over the next few days before week 2 starts.
http://fantasy.lolesports.com/share/join/league/861990/BtSG5HJEzQCdsXTRTVTP
Looks like I might be the only one on earth with proper appear offline currently. Did some coding and just figured it out. The proper way means you simply appear offline - no downsides. Not sure if I'll code/release something proper - we'll see when i get some time. As someone who appeciates buggering off from time to time, I cannot tell you how much I like this functionality. Anyone have any thoughts on why such a basic thing isn't included in the game? Trying to think of any real downside to a release.
anyone know if you get an icon or anything cool for playing through hexakill?
played a few games of hexakill. won and lost some and no icon
OK - so I would really like some feedback from you folks. The tl;dr is that I'm contemplating creating/releasing a program that will allow folks to enable offline mode in the lol client.
What will it do?It enables you to have all the same functionality that you do today, but you can toggle on or off whether or not people will see you if you are on their pals list.
Current state of app I can provide instructions and files on how to do it. Next step is to create a simple program to facilitate this... which I now have the tools to do so... prob about 4 hours work to sort and get something solid/production ready.
Why to releaseWell, this is easy for me to explain. Not everyone is like me ofc, but I'm pretty sure a LARGE % of folks playing LOL want this functionality (honestly, I'd say a min of 30% of LOL population... think about that number...). Appearing offline means you don't necessarily offend a friend by not playing with them (they don't even know you are on). Sometimes we'd rather not play with certain folks sometimes. Other times its cool. It's never fun to say - oh sorry bro, you are actually crap at this game and its going to be very hard to win if you are on our team. It's much easier to simply not be online if you would rather not play with X person. And last, sometimes you just want to solo.
Why not to releaseWell, this gets much more complicated and is kind of what I'm looking for your thoughts on. Please stop reading for a moment and go ahead and google "lol appear offline." Just do it quick and look at the dates. Also consider whatever else you might search for. I trust you will find VERY FEW RESULTS (worth noting I think). Anyway, if you do some digging, like I did months ago, you will find a few programs. The 1st 1 ever created to my knowledge was by Bloopje (I'm forgetting his name exactly). His content was discontinued. The next instance that I'm aware of appeared in Bot of legends (shady scripting community). That was discontinued AFAIK. Then it went to another location written by Snowl. That stopped working/was discontinued. Last, Snowl's code was ported to a program called LMH in March 2015. That stopped working as of 5/28 or w/e the patch was that came out then. Now, there's what I've coded... and that actually seems to be the only code that I'm aware of earth that provides the same functionality today.
So, let's cover the shady side of things. The 1st version of appear offline contained NOTHING malicious in any way. Nothing that could be construed as a hack, etc. It stopped working and I think the creator of the code was hired by riot. At the very least, there were no updates to the code at a point. To me, that means the coder was no longer able to make updates (eg riot didn't want this code going out there).
Now, all of the other variants of the code contained game "hacks/mods." The majority of these were benign, but they could and did modify game behavior. Here's an image of the last program that worked:
Anyway, I don't know how many of you code and are enthusiasts, but believe me when I say, if you are a modder, you generally get really involved (I was constantly working on the Demigod AI some time back). You don't just say FUG it if your program suddenly doesn't work. You try to fix it and would only consider stopping if you were FORCED to or it suddenly went way outside of your scope. For whatever reason, folks I'd imagine were enthusiasts stopped working on their code. Now, you could just say they stopped because there were programs including hacks... but the 1st guy that did any development of this did not do any of that. My thought is that folks were "motivated" to not put out this content rather than just decided not to... I'm also thinking this motivation perhaps included an NDA based on discussion. And from what I've read, riot was quite aware of these programs and even reviewed them/approved of them... then suddenly, no more updates and coding changes in the client made them invalid.
Who does it hurt?So, there's my last question - who is hurt by a program as simple as this. Please believe me that the development time required by Riot to include such a feature is SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO minor. Yet, that being the case and me believing folks would actually like the feature means that there is a reason its not in the client. On that, I can only quess. I guess some people would get less games in with their pals. I also guess that most folks wanting the feature are folks that generally prefer not to play with pals that they feel awkward ignoring their request(eg pals). AFAIK, there is ZERO resource loss by enabling this feature (eg there isn't a server, bandwidth cost associated). The QOL of folks wanting to duck people is improved. The QOL of folks wanting to play with more skill people is decreased (oi - don't super analyze that.. just generalizing). Perhaps its just a dollars and cents decision that the latter folks will stay and spend money more likely if their more experience pals play with them out of guilt or being nice, or whatever. Honestly, that's my conclusion.
Anyway, your feedback is appreciated. I've already got what I want until a new client is out... eg I can go offline as I like and that will work with every version of the client until a new one is released.
If you do make a client, probably want to:
Make sure works for different regions and figure out what you will do about Riot IP changes (release an update? Or host a json file on github or a private server, w.e that you manage.
Assuming the core of the program is just the bat you probably don't need a code review But I can check out whatever you give me, even if just to beta test right before releasing to make sure it installs.
I've always heard that Riot's stance on an "offline mode" is negative which is why they haven't instituted it. Sounds like they've become more proactive in getting rid of mods from what you've said.
At first you would think that this is typical shiney happy people who live in a land of gumdrops and make believe with frogs who wear silly little hats behavior from Riot. But think about it for a second Pacov. What would happen if we all disappeared? No one to play with, no one to read this blog. I think you'd stop playing this game as much as you do and Riot doesn't want that.
Riot wants you to have more friends not less. See that find your friends on Facebook thing they just put in?
So be careful. Sounds like you're looking to violate their 3rd party software agreement big time. But not just to make custom cursors or things they don't care about. You're planning on doing something they actually don't want you to do so good luck to you if you go through with it.
You might not fully understand why it's a big deal to Riot so I'll try and explain my personal opinion on it. First of all I get why you want to appear offline sometimes cause I do to. Sometimes I don't want to hear people bitching at me in TS3, sometimes I don't want my good friends to get frustrated with my bad friends, sometimes I don't want to figure out the puzzle of who goes where when I'm with a bunch of people with limited roles, etc etc.
But sometimes I play with friends anyway. It's good to keep the group together for when I do want to play with friends which is most of the time. Sometimes I explain to Cow that I'm with low level players and we don't need no Diamond MMR in the game. Sometimes I go play Ranked.
So let's say I have a friend named Bob. I love playing with Bob. If I couldn't play with Bob ever again I'd be very sad and definitely not as into LoL as I am. Bob's my pal and playing with Bob is great most of the time.
But Bob has a Diamond MMR and sometimes likes playing Lee Sin Support. So those games don't tend to go well which makes Bob mad at the people who got beat up on by the other Diamonds who are not playing Lee Sin Support he brought into the game. And Bob likes to Jungle and do crazy invades when I have my Bronze friend Bob in the game who doesn't have the skillset or map awareness to back him up properly. Sometimes Bob likes to go play on a level 15 account on LAN and comes back not as good as he was but doesn't seem to realize that. So he gets frustrated with his teammates and goes back to playing on LAN and when he comes back he's...
So yes, sometimes I need a break from Bob so I go play Ranked. And yes Bob is all of my friends. And I'm sure you guys understand because I'm Bob too and do frustrating shit that y'all are nice enough to put up with.
We can all escape our Bob situation with Ranked or whatever. But it might lead to some bad feelings when someone is so desperate to escape playing with you that they use a third party program to go offline. Some might take that as a bit of a personal FU and think twice about inviting you next time they have a game going. Pretty soon, you're off each others friends list and Riot doesn't want that.
Interesting take on things. Thanks for sharing!
Some times I'd like an offline mode as well but thats usually only if I am really into solo queue but its hard to get into it in Diamond V when there is hardly any incentive to play solo queue because you need to dump a large number of games to move up (or you already are a diamond 1/masters player and can win consistantly in diamond V).
The other times I don't feel like playing with you guys I just don't and 75% to 80% of the time I solo queue and say my good byes in Team Speak (my tone of voice might not always be pleasant and I am sorry about that). I usaually leave after a tough loss that I got frustrated in.
For the most part I wouldn't use an offline mode since I like people and its fun being invited to things even if I am not in the mood (I want you to want me!).
PS: I think lee sin support is legitimate. He has two skills that are great for "support" his shield and round house kick. He's fairly threatening to lane against since you don't want to take his Q damage and hes very good at gank support. He plays well with wards and CDR. IMO hes sort of like a leona/alister/braum with a little more solo kill potential and just as much play making potential (it might be a little harder to pull off though).
2-0 with him playing with you guys so far
Four skills, three seconds true sight is good for harassing people out of the bush, and cripple is a good skill for catching or escaping since Lee can tag the carry with it and then shield back to his own, getting them both out of danger.
His only problem with being a solid support pick is that it's just so damned easy to kill people yourself with that 8% missing health damage amplifier. It makes him better at picking up kills, as opposed to securing them for his carry. He has to use cripple early not to kill the target with the several hundred damage he'll do even without a single point of bonus AD.
Infinite crisis is dead - glad I only spent a few hours with it. That was the really ugly looking MOBA I mentioned a bit back. Really, really, ugly. It was fun to play with the licensed characters, though. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/38bott/another_moba_infinite_crisis_dies_welcome_their/
There aren't enough stories in the world where everyone becomes Bob, so well done.
I think I've reached a conclusion on what to do with my magical code: nothing. I noticed some instability in the client yesterday as well while I was doing some testing, so I restored the client. Anyway, I'm pretty sure the invis functionality will be stripped out of the new client entirely (not sure why its still accessible today...). Anyway, in the past, 99% of the time I used it if I just want to be off by myself; most of those times are when I know I'm on tilt and would rather not inflict myself on folks; others, for some of the reasons you mentioned. I certainly wish functionality like this existed in the game already, but rito does not appear to be in favor of that.
As a side note re: playing with folks to keep people together; hurm...I think there is a VERY big perceived difference between you seeing me online, inviting me, and me blowing you off over and over and over again vs not seeing me at all for a day or two. The former is precisely why I don't play with certain folks and eventually drop them from my pals list - I just don't see any point in even having folks on my list if I don't play with them ever. It's another thing entirely if I'm very frequently up for a game... every time you SEE me online. Appear offline functionality accomplished that very nicely. No hurt feels, no need to explain jack - twas delightful.
I still think there is something else to why rito does not appear to be a fan of this outside of $$. I really don't know of any possible malicious utilization, but I'd have to think there is something to it as previous versions of the programs silently stopped working. Curious - maybe I'll get an answer to that sometime after the new client, but probably not.
Re: Lee Sin Support
I think it's totally doable and I'm fine with you playing it whenever you want. Especially when I'm with you in lane, it was fun! Just keep in mind that things like that work really well when you're the best player in the game, but if the goal is to win then having our best player on a Support with poor late game scaling isn't ideal. I don't care about winning every game but a lot of my friends seem to.
Re: My Long Ass Thesis
Sorry if my main point got lost in a wall of text and Devil's Advocacy. I personally would be stoked on a function that made me invisible to not only everyone but had targeted functionality. But Riot apparently doesn't want anything like that to be available and I think I'm the only one who threw out any real theories to why that is.
- If you don't play with friends when you're not super into playing with them, they might not be around as much when you're back in the mood to play with them. Then you stop playing as much. Which makes your friends play less... so on and so on.
- People might get hurt feelings having people go offline on them. Can't hide yourself on LoLnexus or your match history AFAIK so people can find out if someones online or has been with very little effort. They might start thinking "Wow, what a snob. Fuck that guy." or "Oh, guess he really really hates playing with us but was too nice to decline my invites. I'll stop bothering him." Stuff like that. I'm not saying I'd feel that way, but some people might. Riot seems to think so because why else haven't they allowed or instituted that function?
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