I don't know if you guys know this or not, but flak frigates are actually EXTREMELY overpowered. The general consensus in the community seems to be that flak is only useful in leveling your opponents titan and making your eco angry. I can confirm that is NOT the case. A combination of low tech (only requires TWO labs… WTF), incredible range and speed (a handful of flak got lock down an entire gravwell), cheap cost (75 credits more than cobalt… what a bargain), and the ability to counter every ship in entire game besides cap and HCs make going mass flak one of the most effective strategies in the game.
What about its supposed counter, the light frigate, you ask? The majority of the sins community doesn't know this – which is why the secret I'm about to divulge will make the "pros" very angry– but LF doesn't counter flak... It is actually the other way around. Don't take my word for it, go make a custom game and see for yourself. 200 supply of gardas vs 200 supply of cobalts. If you micro the gardas just right, the cobalts will exhibit what I call "retarded fish syndrome," and spin out of control, unable to attack the flaks. Meanwhile, the gardas will steadily chip away at the ENTIRE cobalt group, and eventually win. I guarantee this will make your head explode, as you finally realize the awesome power of the flak frigate.
1st test
Starting Conditions: 50 Gardas vs. 40 Cobalts (both 200 supply)
NO upgrades for either side
ELEMENTARY micro for flak (consists of moving back and forth in straight line)
End Result: 22 Gardas remaining (88 supply)
Remaining gardas have very high health
SCREENSHOTS- http://postimg.org/gallery/371hjd9qc/4ab10b9b/
2st test
Same conditions
End Result: 27 gardas remaining
Replay: http://www.2shared.com/file/fBoBDoHM/FlakLFtest.html?
Ryat, a trusted and prominent member of this forum, ran his own tests with 80 sentinels and 100 disciples. He said the sentinels won, hands down.
Discussion about the aforementioned "retard fish syndrome" affecting cobalts can be found here: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/446223/page/1
Solutions
A 25 unit decrease in crystal in return for a 25 credit increase seems to be more than adequate nerf for a unit of this firepower. As everybody knows, credits are the most important resource in the early game, so this will cut down the flak numbers substantially.
2. Increase ship speed
Hold on a second! This sounds like a buff! Well no actually. One of the key elements for the flak's op nature is its ability to dish out tremendous amounts of damage due to having a fast turnaround rate. Imagine how more powerful strike craft would be if they had the flak's speed and weapon cooldown! A faster speed would lower dps, as the ship would creep out of range due to forward momentum, which translates into less time shooting at the enemy and more time turning around.
3. Increase range
This will allow it to target more enemies at once, effectively reducing the dps per ship.
Please offer constructive responses only people. No trolling, name-calling, or put downs.
P.S. - does anyone know how to put screenshots into posts? I tried the "insert image" button and it doesn't work.
I think you've solved it!
I've actually tried to see if any players were interested in testing it....so far no takers...
i did test LF vs Flak...
apparently noone cared
there are 3 limiting factors in fleeting:
1: supply
2: build time
3: resources
you will often be hampered by 1 or 2 of these (but never all 3-not possible)
the OP states supply as the only limiting factor in the test (which is at best arbitrary)
early game supply is not an issue, as early fleet upgrades are cheap and you start with zero ships (+2 scouts)
early game you are hampered by both build time, and resources
flak take longer to build, cost more each ship, and require 2 military labs + the research itself
you will vastly outproduce your opponent if you are just making LFs vs him (flak)
once supply does become a factor, the player building LFs is going to have much more resources to put into upgrades than the player building flak.
Strange how you didnt ask me, the CREATOR of this thread and also the one who is online the most.
Overheard people talking about this thread and decided to go look for it. I remember Sinkillr saying something about this a few weeks ago on sins. Although I haven't tried the flak vs cobalt test yet, there might be a little something there.
I remember a 5v5 game in which Sinkillr and I spawned next to each other. I had the immediate advantage because i started with three roid/moons next to me, and two neutrals with crystals, just two jumps away. Sinskillr started with the basic two roid and earth combo. I took my planets and neutral fast, as did Sinkillr. I started with the Marza Dreadnought and corvette spam, while Sinkillr did the main advent start, Progenitor Mothership and disc spam. I was able to kill his Progenitor two times before he finally had enough flak spam, now remember I had the advantage at start with my planets. To counter I made cobalts and this is where it got interesting.
I noticed that when my cobalts were firing at his flak, they had to keep turning as the flak were moving around and behind them. They were clearly taking extra damage, as the disc were shooting them also. By "extra damage" I mean that the cobalts weren't exactly doing damage every second as they would have been while shooting the stationary disc. I kept my cobalts attacking the flak for awhile, but noticed that I wasn't doing as much damage as I could have been doing if I had been attacking the disc. I instead ignored the flak and focused on the disc. I also kept my corvettes nearby, strafing his disc's, in and out as I needed them too. I won of course, and only because of my eco at start.
Judging from this battle alone, I wonder what would have happened if Sinkillr had a larger flak fleet.
If Sinkillr had the same amount of planets at the start.
I do really think it might have worked, I'll have to try it out, but am very afraid to try it in a 5v5 game.
New account. . . Made this month. . . Sinkillr is that you?
If you even played online in the past month you would know that inthedarkness and sinkillr are two separate players.
Could be Jao...
Hello I'm new here.
Actually I have played this game for a year already.. just didn't had $ to buy the game so pirated it...
Anywaya on topic,
I liked to produce flak en masse, mainly because it had good hp and low sup and great chasing capability.
But the way op reason hurt my brain.
A 25 unit decrease in crystal in return for a 25 credit
Crystals worth 4 times more than credits. Were you able to sell them for 1:1 ratio?
Are the multiplayer differents from the single?
One of the key elements for the flak's op nature is its ability to dish out tremendous amounts of damage due to having a fast turnaround rate
Isn't the flax & all others anti-craft main feature is their ability to shoot 360 degree, even from their butt?
Am I missing something here?
Increase range
...I can imagine my flaks pulling LFs around while farting bullets from their butts
In the early game, credits are actually worth more than crystal. You tend to accumulate a surplus of the latter due to having nothing to spend it on. A faster speed would translate to less damage because the targets would be out of range for longer time periods. And I already admitted number 3 was a flawed solution, so you can ignore that one.
You mean overshooting for whatever you guy called it?
That when your ship were chasing something and it suddenly stop and you just fly past it?
I already said that the flak can even shoot behind. They have 4 turrets that cover all 4 directions.
Even if they do fly past the targets their rear guns will continue ripping while they just slowly turning back
And well no... I usually get a handful of cobalts before I start spamming flaks so removing crystals would be serious buff
I just got banned by all the top players for exposing this trade secret. I should never have made this thread in the first place...
Does anybody have any tips on countering this? I keep getting owned by it from all the players online.
You must be rather unfamiliar with MP if you don't know about the ubiquity of flak rush.
Fight flak with flak.
Will you ever stop trolling? Flak spam is the dominant strategy nowadays, nothing else is viable... Ask anybody that plays MP... Which evidently you have not done so in quite a while...
What is MP?
Munchie Pouches
Seleuceia isn't an authority on anything... troll harder next time...
We don't need to troll very hard. You make it so easy for us.
Or rather, you make it very easy for me...
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