Constructing starbases has long been a key element of any successful space empire in Galactic Civilizations. We’re taking a good look at them for Galactic Civilizations III from both artistic and mechanical perspectives. Starbases are going to be cooler and more strategically interesting in Galactic Civilizations III than ever.
(click the pic for a high-res downloadable version)
Lead designer Paul Boyer (Mormegil here on the forums) has the following to say about starbases:
We’re adding some great features to starbases in Galactic Civilizations III. Like in the previous game, each starbases specializes in a particular function: economics, military, cultural, or mining. However, players no longer choose a type upon construction. Instead players add a Specialization Ring that allows the starbase to perform special tasks. Once the ring is built, players can further upgrade it with special modules. These modules are key to a starbase’s strengths, such as expanding your civilization's cultural influence, defending your borders, boosting planetary economics, and mining the new resources such as antimatter that fuel the deadliest ships in any game of Galactic Civilizations III.
Other new starbase features include unique styles for each race and unique starbase modules. Fleets can now dock at a starbase, much like they can garrison friendly planets. Players can also add multiple constructor modules on a Constructor ship now.
These changes allow starbases to fill even more roles in your strategy, and open up new doors for different development paths for your empire.
What would you like to see unique modules do in Galactic Civilizations III?
I really like the concept art and attention to starbase strategy.
I’d rather see starbases more limited in quantity but have increased strategic value. One post mentioned the possibility of using logistics to limit starbase numbers, but if the galaxy sizes are as big and bigger as they were in GalCiv2, I don’t know if logistics would work as an empire spreads out. I liked the limitation per sector, but maybe the limitation should be even greater to avoid abuse.
I also agree with more defensible bases, and I think substantially higher HP would be one important element of this.
As far as modules, I really like several of the ideas mentioned here by others. Following are some favorites (with some of my thoughts):
1 – Sensors that surpass what ships could achieve.
2 – Warp lane module that allows faster travel between two equipped starbases; improvements would increase speed and could eventually allow something like a stargate.
3 – Jamming Device to block others’ sensors.
4 – Repair modules for increased ship repair.
5 – Ground war support.
6 – Shipyard module; the module itself could offer a base production value, which could then be modified by the starbase’s production modifier instead of offering that modifier to nearby planets. Higher levels of tech (or more shipyard modules) could allow for shipyards with higher base production. The "size" of the module could also limit the size of ships being built.
Other module ideas:
1 – Deep space sensor array that can scan areas remotely within a radius (i.e. the space station could scan an area several sectors away). The scan’s distance, the size of the area scanned, and the information provided could all be determined/improved via tech.
2 – Morale modules like casinos, resorts, theme parks, arenas, and shopping centers.
3 – Strategic command centers (for military bases) that allow slight increases to logistics within the base’s sphere of influence (perhaps only in very small increments; though without knowing the specifics of how fleets will work, even that could easily become unbalancing).
Yep, but remember, I've been playing since 2006 and I demolish Ultimate AI's even while playing legitimately without exploits. I pretty much know the the game to the extent it's possible to without reading the code, but it takes a lot of practice. I couldn't mod the game to save my life though.
My setup is an end-game fleet with final tier weapons and defenses alongside the considerable buffs the Altarian tech tree gets to defenses. With the proper stolen technology and military resources it's not impossible for that number to double.
Thalan tech tree can do much the same. Better, really, since they can mine Military Resources at 60% rather than 49% that the generic tech tree caps out at. Stolen Hyperion Shrinker and Hyperion Logistics buildings help a lot. I frequently see logistics above 100 per fleet, and huge hulls with 400 points of space to put stuff. One of my posts from another topic:
A single huge hull starts at 90 HP, and has 250 missiles (10 Nightmare Torpedo launchers), 160 armor ( 16 Zero Point Armor), 26 speed (2 base and 4 Stellar Folders at 6 points each), a Kill Zone Computer (+50% weapons, not included in the base attack number), and 8 extra HP (1 Integrity Grid). That's base, with a third of the hull wasted on engines and hit points, and more defense than is really needed. Don't ask what level of miniaturization is required for that, it's pretty high but doable by stealing a couple Hyperion Shrinkers from other empires. The ship described is actually two shrinkers behind my current ability, I just haven't designed a newer model to use that hull space yet. My current huge hulls have over 400 slots for modules, these were made at 387 or so.
Counting things like the +60% planet I built it on, several military resource starbases at +60% each, and a lot of tech that give passive bonuses, that ship really has 33 speed, 819 missiles, 705 armor, and 242 HP. Any one of those ships could eat the starbase for breakfast, and I can gang 9 of them up with a flagship model that has a +3 fleet speed module, a +30% fleet defense module, and far more armor in place of most of the weapons. The flagship tanks all incoming fire, so the other ships never even get hit.
Huge hull start at 150 space with the maximum miniaturization at 115% only 317 space is possible. If this is a modd I would understand, or maybe am mistaken. How do you get four-hundred space?
the rest is absolutely efficient I thought I was good at ship building, but you are of a different caliber.
That was a zero-mod Metaverse game.
The standard miniaturization techs provide 150% or so passive miniaturization (don't remember off hand). After that, you have to actively farm Hyperion Shrinker buildings. Invade, steal, flip, etc. any AI planet that has one. If an AI hasn't built one but has used all the space on their planets, give them an empty planet to build one on, then steal it once they do. This can even be done with minor civilizations - they won't invade planets, but you can give or sell them planets. This is how my logistics score is so high, too. Ten shrinkers and the passive techs can easily push you above 400 points.
Note that this technique is not terribly good at beating AIs. It is very good at exploiting AIs you have already effectively beaten. It's part of maximizing your military score for points, only useful if you want to post a big score to the Metaverse.
I don't play the metaverse so idk the rules but will take your word for it's. I wish miniaturization could be higher, like 200% on regular games though. Thanks avatarless person with alot of karma, for enlightening me!
Is there any info regarding quantity of resources.
Like money , when you mine a resource, will it have a quantity or just 'available' ?
To me, this would add a strategic layer and moderate ship quantity, I.E. large map game get bogged down because there are a gazillion fleet stacks. If resource and population quantity along with money affected fleet and starbase construction , that would regulate spamming some what I think.
When you're playing the game at this level and with this much know-how, winning is pretty much a forgone conclusion at that point. lol. Still, that's an incredible setup, but a bit... OP in my opinion. Hopefully ship sizes scale better in this game.
But I've always found pumping out relatively powerful frigates every turn trumps waiting two or more for the better ship, the AI doesn't handle fighting the larger force all that well.
Why would you assume I'm building them rather than buying them? Once your empire is at that stage dropping 35,000 bc on a ships isn't that big of a burden. One per turn until I have the fleet I need, then the production rate at that planet doesn't matter much.
...I may or may not have thought of that.
Now that I think about it, I have about ten quadrillion credits stored away in my current game...
Maybe we can buy starbases and modules like we do ships. They are similar concepts.
I think constructors should never be used up. Constructors can have 1 module and easy to build (10-15 turns) at the start of the game. They are like workers in civilization games, who never get replaced.
Constructors- Max number of constructors depends on your logistics ability. The constructor module early on is cheap to build. 5 tiers of constructor modules? They get very expensive and long to build later on, even though planets have better factories. Click "Construct" and select a starbase on the galactic map, then select the module you want to build/upgrade. The constructor will automatically go next to the selected starbase/etc and start to build the module. Can have multiple constructors assisting each other in fleets, but the reduction build time is low. Ex. A module that takes 20 turns to build with one constructor, adding a second constructor to assist will only lower build time to 16 turns. Adding the third constructor will reduce build time to 13 turns, diminishing returns on each one.
I think starbases should have hangers for ship with free maintenance. All ships above medium will now need to be built in starbases instead of planets. Makes it more effective technology wise. This frees up planets build slot for mid game onwards, unless we somehow have two separate slots for building ships and planet improvements.
It always irked me that the idea was to use resources to create same starbases right next to each other instead of merely upgrading and/or making the original one larger/better to deal with what-have-yous.
I think we need to make start bases more general and let each player designate how much military , economic or influence each star base is.
Maybe I want an economic star base but with heavy military defenses, etc.
Research tech that makes a single constructor module = 2,3,+ upgrades and shrink size of the module. One races can use their constructor over and over but has to wait for a cooldown timer. This helps lower micro. (Honestly I prefer constructors with a cooldown time ie no more rebuilding them).
Also agree with diminishing returns on the number of starbases in a sector.
Love it that you can dock your fleets to bases. Starbase repair yards and construction yards. Fighter hangers. (would love to see system defense boats, riders, battlecruiser, battleships ie ships that chop off their ftl engines for more guns, armor and faster sub ftl drives shipss that are docked to stations think Sots)
Military starbases can be upgraded to up the total capacity of fleets that are docked to it (first) and later operating in its sector.
Habitat stations/modules (basically small pops on trade, culture, econ/social stations) so some stations can cover their costs.
Sensor modules with deep survey ability. Cloaks and cloak sensors ie think supreme commander out ring normal sensors inner smaller ring cloak sensor. Late game sensor modules you automatically grab anomalies in your sectors.
Modules that can transfer people from core worlds to new worlds to get them up and running faster.
Some military station upgrades help ground forces protecting your worlds, and later planetary shields so if you want my worlds go take out the station first. Or in sins even if you take out the world stations got to go first if you have that module.
E warfare modules.
Yor's gravity tech to slow down enemy ships in their systems come from their unique station modules.
Stations with really slow and expensive engines.
Just have a thought to add. If there were to be a upgraded experience system like in Civ. Than starbases should get it to. And can buy modules as well. Which shouldn't be a problem for people who can drop 35,000 credits a turn. (yes I am talking about you WIllythemailboy ) and i am still amazed.
Just a random thought since people were debating Stealth. I'm not sure it's a good idea, but it's an idea:
Suppose that stealth was just a modifier on detection distance. So if you have sensors on your ship that can see 7 away, but your enemy has developed 3 stealth points, then you have to be within 4 squares to "detect" the stealth craft. This could be useful for troop transports to slip through gaps in the sensor radius, and a ship with sufficiently high stealth to be completely undetected would get a huge advantage in combat. The technology only becomes available after a good while in the tech tree so you've become used to seeing ships on the edge of the fog of war, and suddenly they are slipping in where there's no fog of war.
Fast engines would likely have to have a negative effect on Stealth, both mechanically and for realism. It would provide good reason for fleets to include a dedicated sensor ship in case you're up against an opponent that chased the stealth branch rather than a "traditional" combat branch, and to have defensive starbases loaded with sensors (surely a starbase can have far more sensors than a ship). This also opens tactical possibilities: depending on how totally hands-off fleet battles are, you might be able to focus fire on a sensor ship, making the survivors of your stealth fleet able to rip apart the other ships.
And if both sides have so much stealth that their opponent can't detect them? Well then they occupy the same square without even fighting, or realising it. They don't even know it! This could also be a great ambush if you have some lonely un-stealthed troop transport coming at an enemy world, the enemy intercepts with a low-power fighter, but lo and behold there was a cloaked escort able to destroy the interceptor. And imagine what happens when two opposing armies have cloaked fleets in the same parsec without realising it, then an uncloaked ship comes in, one side destroys it, the other side realises they are sharing a parsec, and an odd stealth battle occurs (which may still leave survivors on both sides, since they still don't know how many enemies are there).
The basic idea is to give combat a dimension orthogonal to the attack/defense rock/paper/scissors pattern. Probably too late to change the major design principles anyway (and I don't expect random forum posts typically provide core game mechanics). High hopes for this game, regardless.
I love this game. This type of depth wasn't in the civ series when it came to stealth. But it's possible here and makes more since because its space and it's the 23# century. Go stardock!
I was reading one post (cant recall who it was) but someone modded the game and took out all the life support modules and severely reduced ship ranges for life support in their game. this would require you to essentially build starbase bridges between suns or galaxies
(BTW I'm not suggesting this part be in the game I assume it might come out as a mod at a later time)
what I suggest is the ability through diplomacy to allow allies to travel through your space as if they had a planet or such there without needing to place starbases or own a planet in the area
Stealth would greatly enhance the game play as it plays a very crucial role in tactics/strategy.
Diminishing returns could work together with maximal throughput (or threshold), reducing possible generation of something, be that resource mining, or income generation. This way you either can upgrade one station to higher level, or build several low-level stations, but the output will be the same.
Well I'd like to see hybrid modules, like for my "trade/influence starbase" a speed boost for all friendly units.
I'd love a stargate type module where it required 2 gates to be usable. I'd say that transport should be 1 turn between gate's not instantly (keeping all movement points on the ships), even though it'd be more realistic that way but balance.
I'd like for Military star bases to not just boost force but be able to use their force against units in their area...thus am intrigued by the docking concept it'd be great to be able to set a patrol squad and a star base defence squad 0 hyperdrive all offence/defence, minimal life support.
I'd love for there to be an Artificial Planet (turning a starbase into a barren world).
I'd love for there to be a space based construction for Medium and bigger vessels. It's hard to conceive building a ship on a planet in the sizes of Large and Huge hulls to fly outside the atmosphere.
I'd be happy to see our worlds autobuild civilian trade/shipping networks vs. us in control of that...depending on the Government type chosen. A dictatorship, or a species that uses mind control, hive mind, computer etc. would be in more control of their society than a Democracy/Republic/Federation. Yes, there would exist rules, but their would be those who break, bend, etc. I noticed there were other options not enabled in Gal Civ 2 like Crime and Cabinet that could be implemented. Granted that's if it's fun!
back to Original Post's question additional starbase modules I'd like to see.
Repair, Star Gate, Artifical Planet, Continuous improvement on weapons/defencive systems based on what tech's I have, Mine Deployer, Moral Booster, Industrial Complexes, Trade lanes, Sensor Enhancements, Electronic Counter Measures (stealth/cloaking/detection/reduction in enemy accuracy). Doom Star Construction. Asteroid base boost [they send resources to the space station, boosting the station which in turn boosts the colon(y/ies) in range] Increased force projection (star base effective range for abilities increased), Logistics increaser (adding starbases to an area increases logistics caps in area).
I agree that upgraded starbases should have huge hitpoints, and be able to take on at least one decent fleet if they're fully upgraded and teched out alone...more so with a docked fleet/defence force... I'd also like to see stations being able to be captured (not just destroyed).
I really like the idea of modular starbase, and I would like to see more flexibility and regional effect of them.
Maybe starbases can start with a very limited number of modules and hitpoints, but increase with "connector" modules which can be mounted with "functional" modules.
Every module can be upgraded when the corresponded technologies are discovered, for instance, connector modules with two connections can be upgraded to 3 connections when the hull technology progressed; or sensor module that see 1 parsec can be upgraded to see 2 parsecs with improved sensor technology.
Functional modules can be divide into different categories(i.e. beam, shield, armor, ...etc), and each category can be upgraded separately.
Different modules also have different HP and running cost, thus allow us to create a small, cheap and fragile surveillance post, or a huge, expensive but invincible stronghold.
In the end, each starbase can be composed with different number and different types of modules, and easier to fit different purposes.
Maybe dev team can design some kind of a starbase management interface to customized composition of starbase so we can create "OUR OWN" starbase configuration.
Instead of a "super giant dreadnought starship" which only act as a ship that have enormous capability, I like to regard starbase as a pivot of a specific function, like distribution center of a trading area, or a core of a giant sensor grid. In this case, I think regional effect should be emphasized more to make them a worthy strategic target to attack . It will be great if there are much more regional help a starbase can provide, especially increased in percentage rather than a specific value. For instance, cloaking field which increase 10% of defense of every ships in the range, or a warp damper field to slow down enemy 10% movement point.
It will be great if we can freely create one customized starbase with what we really need.
When you say "giant starbases" I remember X (mostly X3 and Rebirth)... Just as size comparison.
I do believe temporary stealth would be a fantastic addition to the game. Two different types would work well, having typical modern style stealth that leaves the ship undetectable to scanners beyond visual range and optical camouflage for within visual range. Both should have respective cool down rates and draw upon side effects.
Think Star Trek camo that couldn't function with shields thus leaving them defenseless while invisible. Decreased movement speed while sensor camo is active. Things like that mixed with timers and cool downs would make for an interesting mechanic.
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