Just wanted to let everyone know...I have an older HP laptop, but one that has successfully run both Windows 8 and Start8 for quite some time. The other day, I updated the laptop to Windows 8.1, then after rebooting, I uninstalled Start8, rebooted again, installed Start8 v1.30.1, and rebooted again. Everything seemed to work just fine. No problems noted. After using the laptop for a while, I shut it down completely. The next day, I attempted to boot it up, and it froze on the Windows screen. I of course immediately thought, "F'ing Microsoft!". I rebooted it, and had no problems. I then shut it down again, and booted it up the next day, it froze, I cursed Microsoft, I rebooted, and had no more problems. I repeated this process for four days in a row with the exact same results, and I finally got annoyed enough to run ChkDsk, SFC SCANNOW, and a few other things. No help there. I decided to begin uninstalling certain programs that I know involve themselves in or soon after the boot process. It was not until after I uninstalled Start8 that the laptop finally stopped freezing after a cold boot. Note that there are no problems noted with Start8 installed and a REboot. But, from a cold boot, I froze up every time. This may not be related to Start8 at all, or it may be a combination of something in my older hardware (4+ years) and Windows 8 along with Start8. Please note that I had no trouble previously however. Not until Windows 8.1 WITH Start8 installed. Windows 8.1 without Start8 is fine, however, I miss my Start8.
What screen was it getting stuck on?
Also what happens if you use the same method to shutdown with and without start8?
Hi Neil! Both your questions were answered in my first post. Windows loading screen (perhaps I was not clear here) and problem cured once Start8 removed.
Oh, and I also use Fences, but have zero problems with that.
Start8 hasn't even started at the point you are having the freeze, so I suspect the issue is something to do with the shutdown process itself. We use the hybrid shutdown option, perhaps you are shutting it down without Start8 without that?
Hmmmm...interesting. You may have a point about something SNAFUing during shutdown instead of start-up. Guess I should check the logs. But, as far as shutting down without Start8....No I used it every time, and I mean every time. I loves my Start8.
I was meaning when you tested without Start8 to see if it still happened.
It might be interesting to have Start8 running as normal and then shutdown not via the Start8 shutdown menu, but from the charms bar (win+c, settings, power). See if the same thing happens.
Ahh, I see! Thank you. I will do that and post back today.
Neil, I did as you suggested. I reinstalled Start8, rebooted, and then once PC was back up completely, I used the Charms bar to shut down completely (or as completely as I have now learned Windows 8/8.1 do). The same freezing problem occurred upon attempting to start the machine. Once I again uninstalled Start8, the freezing problem immediately stopped.
Your comment about the hybrid shut-down prompted me to do some research. Apparently, Windows 8 (and I am assuming 8.1) use the hybrid shut down process even from the Charms bar. The only apparent way to completely shut down a Windows 8 machine now is to run a command line prompt (Shutdown /s /t 0). This is according to the one source that I have had time to read up on this at. The article has some typos, but it is a very good reference for those who like this power stuff explained simply (ME). http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/windows-and-office/how-windows-8-hybrid-shutdown-fast-boot-feature-works/.
I checked the logs looking for all the approximate dates and times since I began having trouble with Start8 (since the Windows 8.1 upgrade). Sure enough, the problem is flagging as an incomplete or interrupted shut down. Now, This is a mess, because the PC appears to shutdown completely normally when Start8 is installed (it looks exactly the same as without Start8, visually and audibly). There is no appearance of an interruption, a sudden click off, or a crash. But, the logs sure say otherwise. I have a screenie of the log, but no where to host it, so I cannot post it here.
So, what do I do. Going back to Windows 8 is not an option. And, I would very much like to use my Start8 program that I paid for. I really like it.
Is there something...a config file, an .ini file, or something else that I can edit in Start8 to force it to use the old-fashioned full shut down procedure?
Here's an article I found about how to disable Win8's "Hybrid Shutdown" feature. I'm not sure if this will have any effect on how Start8 shuts down the system, but it might be worth a try.
http://www.askvg.com/fix-windows-8-restart-and-shutdown-problems-by-disabling-hybrid-shutdown-feature/
johnnyzero, thanks for the article link. I will take a look at it. I don't wan't to disable hybrid shutdown, because I really like it. Also, it gives me no problem as long as Start8 is not installed. However, I want to learn all I can about this, so I appreciate you steering me in this direction.
I understand. Still, from a troubleshooting standpoint it would be worthwhile to try disabling Hybrid Shutdown just to see if it's related to the problem you're experiencing when Start8 is installed. If so, then at least that will point the Stardock folks in the right direction.
Hey Neil....do you have any further thoughts regarding my last post? I could really use some help here. Since very few regular PC users shut down their PCs, and since even fewer have probably upgraded to Windows 8.1 so far, you may not see a lot of people reporting the problem. I assure you it is real and it is related to Start8 though, so please don't forget about me. Stardock Support has not gotten back to me at all from the ticket submission page. I would really like for someone with newer hardware but still running Windows 8.1 and Start 1.30.1 to chime in and say whether they have experienced the problem.
I tried to reproduce on my home machine that has 32 bit 8.1 and 64 bit 8 as a dual boot but was unable to reproduce any problems with shutdown. I have asked QA to try to reproduce next week though.
What version of Start8 was the machine running before 8.1 was installed?
Regarding support, what is your ticket id?
BTW if you hold down shift when clicking on the shutdown option it will do a shutdown in non hybrid mode.
Hi Neil! Thanks for getting back! I was already running Start8 v1.30.1 when I upgraded to Windows 8.1. Also, I have uninstalled and reinstalled that version several times now as well. I do clean uninstalls using Revo Uninstaller Pro, so all the files are removed.
Thanks for reminding me about the shift key with shut down. I read that somewhere, but I did not know if I believed it would provided the same complete shutdown as using the command line. Does it? I am too new to Windows 8+ knowledge to know any differently. I believe that I will reinstall Start8 and try to cold boot again using that method to see what happens. If it works, that is good enough for me at the moment. I still want Start8 to work for me because I like the Windows 8 fast boot time. If nothing else, I will wipe my laptop and reinstall Windows 8. I do not need 8.1.
As far as you not duplicating....if I may ask: 1) How old is your system (mine is about 5 years old with no driver support from HP now)? 2) Intel or AMD processor? 3) UEFI or old fashioned BIOS (I am old-fashioned BIOS)? 4) On-board graphics or independent video card?
From what I have learned so far, Windows 8+, using the hybrid shut down, first logs off the user/s, then hibernates the kernel, then shuts down the hardware. Is that correct? Since my logs are showing an incomplete or unexpected shut down when trying to use Start8 or even when it is installed and I use the Charms shutdown, I am going to assume that it is occurring in the second phase somewhere. Perhaps something not being allowed into the hibernation properly? The only problem with all of this is that my PC has no problem with the Windows 8+ shutdowns when Start8 is not installed, so I am at a loss as to understand why Start8 would trigger a problem.
Ticket number for support request...I don't see one. I used the web site to submit the trouble report, and I never heard back from them. No ticket number or anything. I don't even see my request for help online when I log in.
I am off to try your shift shutdown suggestion. By the way, is there not an .ini or .cfg file that I can edit to get Start8 to do a proper shutdown and ignore whatever it and Win 8.1 cook up together on my PC during the shutdown process? Thanks again!
Neil, I just had a thought. What anti-virus, if any, are you using? I use Norton Internet Security, which was just updated for Windows 8.1 as well I believe. I wonder if Norton and Start8 are now getting into some kind of weird pissing contest at shutdown (ie: hibernation) which causes the system to throw the incomplete shutdown flag? Again, all these programs worked together fine before the Windows 8.1 upgrade, but I am just putting ideas out, since it clearly has to be something that Start8 v1.30.1 and Windows 8.1 together do not like on my machine.
Start8 v1.30.1 + Windows 8 + Norton Internet Security 21.1.0.18 = happy PC
Start8 v1.30.1 + Windows 8.1 + Norton Internet Security 21.1.0.18 = UNhappy PC
Windows 8.1 + Norton Internet Security 21.1.0.18 - Start8 v1.30.1 = happy PC
Windows 8.1 + Start8 v1.30.1 - Norton Internet Security 21.1.0.18 = ???
Pressing the shift key while clicking shutdown has solved the problem with Start8 cold reboots. However, interestingly, using the shift key caused a loss of Norton Internet Security updates for the past 24 hours. Interesting. At this point, I am going to either perform a clean Windows 8.1 install (mine was an upgrade from 8 to 8.1) or I am going to do a clean Windows 8 install. I cannot remember to hit the shift key every time I shut down with Start8 installed. Since I had zero problems with Windows 8, and I am having multiple problems with Windows 8.1 (not just Start8 either), I am probably going to stick with Windows 8. Thanks for all the help Neil. I will keep checking this forum to see if the issue with Start8 and Windows 8.1 gets resolved.
Update on the ticket I submitted too....Stardock tech support sucks. Received this reply today with no further help offered and the ticket closed. What a crock. I think I will move onto a different company.
Hello, Thank you for your feedback. I will pass it along to the product manager. Again, thanks. Ken Janeczko Customer Care Ticket Details
Ticket ID: LLK-857-95349 Department: Decor8 Type: Inquiry Status: Closed
Regarding your ticket, the product manager is the person who will ensure that we are sending builds to Norton for white listing on release.
There is nothing customer support could do with Norton incorrectly claiming Decor8 might be a virus. Unfortunately Norton move at their own speed when it comes to updating their lists. At some point Norton will realise they were in error (again!) and it will no longer flag it.
Ultimately no matter what link of the software we provide to you, Norton will be flagging it because they know nothing about it.
The only thing small software developers such as Stardock can do about this is 1) submit files to Norton and hope they are paying attention and 2) Recommend to our customers that when their Norton AV sub comes up for renewal they vote with their feet and do not reward Nortons behaviour. There are many other AV packages out there without this problem.
Holding down the shift key on shutdown simply makes Start8 do a non hybrid shutdown. If you lost Norton updates then something else is going on.
I am having a similar (but not identical problem). Also use Start8+Fences+Norton and all well on Win 8. Upgraded to Win 8.1 and now tiles/folders/ icons in Fences won't move - click on them and I get a black circle with a line through it. The major reason, though, why I posted here is because of earlier comments about Stardock Support. I filled in a ticked four days ago and have heard nothing - to be honest I'm not sure whether it exists or not (Support that is)
dpr2: your issue is complexly unrelated. You need Fences 2.11 which is downloadable from the My Downloads part of the store. Microsoft changed something about the desktop which broke earlier versions of Fences ability to drag & drop.
Also what was your ticket ID as you should have had a reply (though 4 days ago was the weekend)
having the same problem here. except i couldnt get into the machine at all. after install of 8.1 the system froze. had to restore from a backup. disappointed this happened to two of my machines with start8
mtg11, It seems like they aren't interested in fixing this. Neil helped me as much as he can, but support at Stardock in general does not seem to view this problem as important enough to look into and fix quickly.
typical i guess. their support is useless. if you have a problem dont expect it to get fixed :/
mtg11: What do you mean by the system froze and you couldn't get into the system at all? At what point is it freezing exactly?
From the brief description your issue is different to the one being reported by WickedGirl.
Given the lack of other reports, the difference in the reports and the fact you had it happen on two machines, it is more likely to be something else you had on your machines. Perhaps an incompatible antivirus / anti malware with 8.1.
We have tested a number of machines and not a single one has experienced anything even remotely similar with Start8 1.3 and Windows 8.1. I am also unaware of reports to support of anything similar, though I will double check this on Monday.
A quick internet search brings up this report though : http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Lockups-Freezes-Hangs/HP-6735s-freeze-on-Windows-8-1-boot-screen-after-hibernation/td-p/3041555
No mention of the use of Start8 and given the user seems to have even tried a clean install (when Start8 cannot have been installed even if they were a user), it seems to suggest that certain HP laptop models may have a problem with 8.1. That particular user also mentions having the same issue with the preview of 8.1.
WickedGirl: What model is your HP laptop?
I also found this from 8.1 : http://www.eightforums.com/performance-maintenance/33931-windows-8-1-fast-startup-enabled-hangs-occasionally.html
or this one from Win8 : http://www.pchelpforum.com/xf/threads/windows-8-freezes-on-startup.159099/
or this article from April talking about how hybrid shutdown causes hangs : http://www.maketecheasier.com/disable-hybrid-boot-and-shutdown-in-windows-8/
The problem with major OS updates is it can be very hard to tell the difference between something the OS is responsible for, something that became incompatible with the OS and a specific product.
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