Hello everyone and especially StarDock dudes.This thread is supposed to collect some ideas for StarDock dudes to use if they want.All the posters, please think before you post if its a valid and actually doable feature before posting.---------------------- So here goes: I have been playing a lot of paradox games lately (especially ck2). That one has a diplomacy system too.So does GalCiv2 (obviously) and many other games i have enjoyed playing.The general problem, in my view, with every diplomacy feature on strategy games is that it is extremely difficult to create enviroment where the AI can have a "real conversation" with you.All diplomacy features have been designed so, that its basically yes/no answers so that the game actually can react to things properly.The real negotiation part is very much lacking, because it would be so hard to implement. Or would it ?My hope for galciv3 and every game that has diplomacy is that on top of the classic style, there would be requests and promises.It's still gonna be yes/no system but with the addition of those two components you get much more depth into it. As a side effect, it would also make relationships matter more, because in current system's it doesn't matter how much someone likes or dislikes you. They join your war if they like you or declare war if the dislike you.With those 2 components added, its not so simple anymore.I give you couple of examples:You ask your neighboring race to join your war that is not going very good. He likes you but in no means loves you (lets say in -100 to +100 scale somewhere like +60). Hes space is lacking some belts and he is having hard time with minerals (or whatever) So instead of asking some minerals from you he requests that if he joins the war and you win the war he will get that one juicy asteroid belt to his control, for his purposes only.You promise that he will get the belt and you just earned yourself an ally to the war.So the more he likes you, the less he is inclined to request, if he loves you like brother, he might even join the war for free, unless he has some very serious difficulties with some aspect of his empire.--------------------You just started the game and theres this uncolonized planet that interests you whole lot. However, your scout spots another races colony ship nearby heading that way. You immediately contact them and request that they leave the planet be, your going to colonize it as soon as you just get there. They say no, we really want that planet. You respond that if you leave that alone i promise to give you money for the next 50 years as a compensation and on top of that you get my scout ship right now. They say no and your diplomatic relationship detoriates, because now they know you wanted that planet.This example is important to work another way also, the AI should sometimes in certain situations request the same from you. All diplomacy should be two way street.--------------------Also, breaking promises should cost you universal credibility. With bad credibility it should be very hard to make deals go trough because no one is gonna trust you to keep your promises, instead they would request something that you would hand over immediately, or even break diplomatic ties, wich then could be repaired given time of course.Combat diplomacy should also be in every game that has a diplomacy feature.There the requests and promises would be a bit different thing. I would just rather call it coordinating the war effort than nothing else.It should be so that the both allies could coordinate and "discuss" their attacks, for example "get your spy's to disrupt their ship building economy in planet X, i will attack their research labs in planet Y".Or "Lets both make a coordinated attack on their main fleet in position Z".Of course the AI should have its own priorities and "views" how the war should be fought, different races have different tactics anyhow. So it depends much on that also how the AI will respond and what he will ask of you to do.--------------------The system i'm speaking here would still be a yes/no system that would be possible to create in computer game like this one, yes its more complicated and yes it ties the diplomacy more direct way to the AI's and different races behavior because the races would have diplomatic relationship with other races too. But also creates something unique and very deep strategical experience.It should also make things a bit more challenging for the player (a good thing!) because if the AI coordinates its efforts to destroy you better, it will increase the strategical decision making.---------------------What do you think ?
This is one of my hopes for GC3, that diplomacy takes a step forward in terms of depth and mechanics. Diplomacy in these Civ type games is always so basic and seems to be thrown in just because you need some way to communicate with the other Civs, but it seems so little effort is given to actually making Diplomacy an interesting, fun, strategic aspect of the gameplay.I'd like to see much of what the original poster implemented. Being able to barter over anomalies, asteroid belts and planets would be a great feature. Offering promises of "spoils of war" would be a great addition to rally allies to your cause. Forming temporary coalitions as opposed to permanent alliances would be a great addition as well. Perhaps a coalition is formed just to defeat a particular race and then after that is accomplished the individual member races of the coalition go on their separate ways.However, what I would really love to see is that communication matters in diplomacy. I'd love to see a "mini-game" made out of diplomacy. Perhaps a screen where you are presented with a few different options in terms of how you communicate. You could select different phrases, then select a type of demeanor. This would mean that you really have to be careful about how you communicate with the various races. Perhaps some races respect a more authoritative tone, while others may want you to show more subserviance. The whole Yes/No/Request aspect of diplomacy is frankly really boring. I think by adding more elements to Diplomacy you can then actually utilize your level of diplomacy research in the game. If you know more about about communication and diplomacy and even through spying know more about a particular race, new options for communication open up for you as you progress through the Diplomacy/Communications tech tree. In the beginning you're left to kind of guess as to how to communicate with the races, how will you phrase your request or your statement and what demeanor will you use? Then as you research Diplomacy and learn more about the species from spying the Diplomacy "mini-game" opens up more options for communicating, gives you more subtle/detailed options for communicating and gives you something like a "chance of success" type read out. Your advisor could say something like "The Drengin are more likely to respond to a humbled request sir."As you become more powerful as a economy, as a military and as a diplomatic body, new options for communicating open up and the way in which the various races respond to you could change. Perhaps early in the game, when you are weak the Drengin will respond favorably to a humbled approach, but as you gain power and perhaps progress beyond them, then then respond more favorably to a stern approach.These are just quick ideas off the top of my head, but I think that Diplomacy can be changed/improved to be a legitimate, strategic and enjoyable game mechanic and not just something thrown in to list as a feature on the back of the retail box.
Thanks. I've made that correction. I believe there's also one called Dr. Z.
I hope the personalities of the races has more impact than global generic stats, so I am playing against different races, rather than just 1 with a different face on it.
I also hope each race has it's own text, or at least we are able to mod in our own text to make them even more distinct.
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