I don't know the odds of it happening, but I want GalCiv 3 to be made available on other digital distribution platforms (platforms other than Steam). I made a wishlist entry here on GOG:http://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/galactic_civilizations_3If you don't already know, GOG (Good Old Games) is a DRM free digital distributor. When you buy a game there, you can download the game as files which you can then run on your computer. These files don't need a separate downloader or installer program, they don't need to call home, etc. They are complete. They are clean of unwanted extras. GOG may have made their name on good old games, but they also deal in new games as well (not long ago I pre-ordered Shadow Warrior 2013 from them). So nothing will stop them from putting this game in their library... short of Stardock saying no.As such, I would like those of you who read this thread and want a non-Steam version of the game, to go vote using the link I provided. Many games there have got 10k+ votes, so I'm hoping for that. I really want Stardock to consider GOG to be a viable option. I think many votes will help them see it as a good option.
My post was in reference to the GOG's TOS which is basically similar to Steam's SSA. since that poster was complaining about the SSA provisions, and touting GOG's as 'superior'.
I got no issue with people having a philosophical preference to GOG and such. But at least base that preference in reality.
The license restricts how and how many you can use. This isn't a buffet. You don't get to 'pick n choose' what parts of the licesnse you want to adhere to. Any more than you can pick and choose what laws you want to obey. If Microsoft's license for Office 2013 is one computer, then that's the license. You don't get to pretend that's not true. You violate the license. That's stealing.
And the license from Office 2013 states that you get to install it on ONE computer. Guess what you just broke the law because you voilated the license agreement and committed copyright infringement. It doesn't matter that it's 'in your home'. As all those people who get copyright notices from bit torrent cases will attest to. any more than murdering your family 'in your home' somehow would mysically make that legal. The act of making the copy is illegal. You infringe upon the copyrights of the rights holder the second you do that. It is NOT like the examples you provide.
Want to install Office Pro on 5 computers. get Office 365 whihc allows for installation on 5 computers.
Want Office 2013 on 5 computers, you have to buy 5 license.
Want to play a game on 5 systems, buy 5 copies.
You don't get to pretend that making multiple copies when the license doesnt allow that, and not call it 'stealing' just because it 'doesnt leave your house' That logic is sheer stupidity. THe law is clear, you violate the license, that's a copyright infringement. Period.
I'd strongly encourage you to go read up on the issue before posting again, because it's painfully obvious that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
It is in fact a breach of the license to copy it all over your house so everyone can play at the same time, unless the license says otherwise.
Coming in here and saying it should be on GOG because you want to make a bunch of copies is a great way to ensure absolutely nobody takes you seriously.
Feel free to tell Microsoft legal that and see how it goes.
It's really absurd in the case of Office because there's no lack of free alternatives that do what home users need just as effectively.
Yeah, then you should be asking for a family use option, not asking that the developer spend more money to put it on a service solely to make it easier for you to pirate. Why would they ever want to spend money so that you can then rip them off?
@satoru1: "That poster" attempted to demonstrate that GOG.com will permit you to play the games you legally purchased and downloaded from GOG.com regardless of the GOG.com Web Site Terms and Conditions of Use. Steam, on the other hand, will not (try not agreeing with the terms of the Steam Subscriber Agreement the next time and see what happens...you will lose the games in your Steam account).
No it is not, that's an Internet Myth - it only becomes so if the copywrite owner/author explicitly allows wider ownership and/or usage that that single licence on one computer.
The Owner/author lays down legal terms and conditions for its use, you do not own copywrite merely by buying it. If you do not abide by those terms and conditions you break the licence agreement. You do not own Copy write, the author(s) does(do) even after purchase. When you buy it you buy under those terms and conditions given by the Legal Owner. If you break them, the Contract of Sale is Null and Void, and you are breaking copywrite law.
The Judge will not listen to Folk Law, he/she ahs an actual set of Laws to uphold.
Both steam and GOG have one sided disclaimers that ultimately leave the user/consumer with no rights. (Class action suit anyone?) j/k However, once a game is downloaded from GOG, it will continue to be playable ... Steam, however, requires 'steam client side' updates which, prevent games from being played in 'off line' mode after a certain time. That is the significant difference.
BTW, I use steam, and have softened (somewhat) my attitude toward them. However, I still get my mods elsewhere- not from steam. Just keep an eye on your TV, steam has your tv in their cross hairs.
edit for spelling error
Well, I wouldn't care if it went of GOG, but it would be a nice business model for somebody who wants a non steam platform.
If GOG terminates your account, you have no actual LEGAL right to the game. You can play and install it. But that doesn't mean your copy is 'legal', because GOG terminated your license
Steam just has license ENFORCEMENT. GOG doesn't.
Also note that Steam no longer even totally disables accounts. Even the extreme worst punishment Steam gives out now are account suspensions. In which
1) You get to keep all your games
2) You get to keep your account
But
3) You cannot buy things from the store
4) You cannot activate retail cd-keys
5) You cannot trade
6) you cannot activate gifts
7) You cannot use the market
Your account is 'frozen in time' but that's it. And this the MOST extreme punishment an account can get on Steam now.
And don't forget, Frogboy said that GOG does not provide the sales accountability developers need. That was in reply # 176 of thread https://forums.galciv3.com/449009.
After seeing that reply again I am definitely voting NO on GOG.
Not true. If GOG terminates your account, it only terminates your account. Nothing more. Only the publisher can terminate your game license, not the store you bought the game from.
I did try to contact them. They never replied. I know I have an account because I noted down a username and password!
I could annoy them about it again but if they can't answer the first ticket, I don't hold out much hope for them answering a second one.
So I have my GOG version of Master of Orion 1 & 2 but if I ever need to download it again I'm sadly out of luck.
Edit: So I decided to annoy them anyway. I did get at least an automated reply back this time.
If you live in Outback OZ and have to rely on NBN Satellite for internet connections, then you`d never vote for Steam. Like all the earlier GC`s please allow access through Stardock.
If you download via Steam or Stardock, you still have to download it. That criteria does not mystically disappear, and you're still going to have the same bandwidth limitations.
the GoG guys seem ok though. They might only pay quarterly but at least they pay you on that schedule. But the lack of real time data is a bit of a disadvantage since its then hard to correlate sales with discounts given. Just like other debs have indicated that seeing correlating data between discounts and increases in sales allows deas to make rational decisions as to where the sweet points are. I think Brad, being a savvy businessman, sees the value of that. And thus "in comparison to Steam", GoG has some disadvantages from that perspective, for making rational business choices.
I don't think that's a reason to disregard them entirely as their drm position is to be lauded.
----
however I "generally" try to buy indie games from their Humble Store if they have one. As Humble takes almost nothing from using their service, sub 10%. While all other digital sites, Steam GoG GG GMG etc all take 30% margins. So if you're making a "choice" that's the better one.
I got an option, give us an option for a hard copy of the game?? A way to play the game, even if it had limited features when not online... Just don't be like SimCity and require a constant Internet connection to play the game, even though I am online 99% of the time, I do like to play games on the road when I have no Internet access, as I don't have a mobile hotspot, or mobile Internet of any sort.
Yes, I don't care what goes on GOG, as long as GC III does not lose money and is making some profit off of this dealership.
If the business loses money for making this decision, I would say hell no.
Oh wait, didn't frogboy said that he wants 20 million dollars for this to work? I am sorry but looks like it is a hell no then.
From a user's perspective they may seem ok, but Brad has to look at their track record of how accountable they have been to the software development companies. How often the reports are is beside the point if the reports are not accurate. As he said:
"GOG has a number of issues for developers. It doesn't provide retail-time reports. Instead, every quarter we get a report on how many units they say they sold. We just take their word on it that they sold that many since there's no activation or any other way to tell how many copies they sold.
And companies make.."mistakes" on accounting all the time. Atari claimed to have sold only around 1,500 copies of Demigod in Europe back in the day. But because we had activations, we knew we had actually sold around 40,000 copies during that period and made them correct their 'error'."
He is saying he doesn't trust them to pay SD what SD is due.
AND, he is the one that has to evaluate the delivery companies and make the decision.
Ok, I have to say something about this. GOG's DRM position costs them nothing. They're a store. They're not the ones making the games.
If people pirate the games that they get from GOG it's the developers of suffer -- i.e. the ones who put for the investment in time and money to make the game. GOG (or any web store) putting up a game for sale isn't some act of nobility.
I think in principle that GOG is great for games which have gone out of circulation, but it's not so hot for games which are still selling in other outlets. Your mileage may vary (mine appears to suck).
Game piracy hurts future game development and may lead to price inflation or more draconian measures, neither of which are good for the honest game consumer.
There is a case for making games less reliant on an internet connection, or more tolerant of an offline status. Maybe there's a hardware solution coming in the next decade. For now we're just going to have to make the best of the situation, and I'd say that GC3 being in development is a pretty damn good situation to be in.
I like this idea, but recognize why a game developer might not.
First off I'd like to thank Frogboy for replying on a Saturday night ,
I've always been for giving the publisher/developer what's do, whether it's the film, music, or, game industry. With that being said even though there are multiple ways to get around DRM's I respect it and pay for those products. Isn't there a way for an alternate option?
I don't really see how. It would be akin to someone objecting to Microsoft's DirectX insisting we also provide an OpenGL version.
What most gamers don't realize is that Steamworks isn't about DRM. It's a full-on platform that provides hundreds of services big and small for game developers. I'd argue that Microsoft should be the ones making these kinds of things. But they're not. Valve is.
What I like about GOG (Which stands for Good Old Games after all) is that it provides a nice place for legacy games to get a second life. That is its mission. It's not really viable as a method to sell current games.
I understand that there may not be, or at least may not be a viable option, I'm not even really open to the GOG option, this post just gave an opening for the discussion. All I'm asking is this not require online access to play the game, I only have a few games on steam, unlike the hundreds that others have, none of these games require me to be online to play as steam still launches and still allows me to play, if Galactic Civilizations III is the same way I'm fine with it.
My largest concern is not what I have to download or have on my computer to play the game as I know Stardock has always has it's fans in mind when producing a game but instead what happens if Valve (Steam) has issues? Where do I go to play the game I purchased the right to play? That is the only reason I support the alternate options.
As far as being the same as objecting to Direct X that isn't the same, as Windows doesn't make the end user be online to continue to use my Windows PC, to get updates and support yes, or even to register the product and have it work initially, yes, simular to the way Galactic Civilizations II was, you want support you need to be registered and you get your updates ad support.
Now times change, to survive as a company I understand you need to invest wisely, so by having a large global digital distribution company on your side like Valve (Steam) to assist in this process, with no hard copy, helps the company financially by getting it front of people that would otherwise not see it and cutting overhead in hard copies. I agree that is a smart choice.
Now with all that being said let me rephrase my concern, can Stardock say that this will not require you to be online to play? and if you don't need to be online to play or start the game, does the company have a plan in place, even if they can't say what publicly should Valve (Steam) run into problems?
(I tried to search for always online and could not fine a specific post answering this, so I apologize if this has been answered)
steam already has an offline mode. While as tad "flaky" in theory it lets you play games even if you temporarily lose connectivity. And the Offline Mode is supposed to I allow indefinite offline mode without any phone home requirements (this functionality is being improved now that all games have been moved off the old steam content system) yes you will hear that Offline mode "does not work" but by this is both true and not true.
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