Could you guys at Stardock make a non-Steam version of this game? I'm still not clear on all the details (I'm still searching for them), but having a copy of the game that does not require Steam at all (during any stage of installation and there after) is a big deal for me.I'm quite willing to negotiate on details. The game doesn't have to be Steam free during development, but I would like it to be Steam free at release. I'm even willing to accept some time after release. Just please make it available without the need for Steam in some form (that is worth getting).You would have my many thanks if you can make this happen.
It's one of the many reasons why I have a lot of faith in Valve. They don't charge for using Steam. They make their money on sales from their site.
The word benevolent doesn't even begin to describe Valve's Steam policies. They really are making the PC a truly competitive platform.
The current renaissance in PC game development is due to Steam. Period.
Renaissance? You assume it was at a low-point before Steam?I'm sceptic about that because I've heard the "PC gaming is dead" routine since the first Playstation came out. And I have not seen a single year that didn't have some good games appear.True, there may be an influx of developers but most of them seem to be the casual-gaming kind and usually don't last that long. We've even had some high-profile demises of publishers/developers since 2000. But what's new? Remember the ATARI console days with crappy games (pre-NES)? I don't think Steam is the real reason for so many new developers, I think advancement in technologies (hardware and software) have a greater impact on this.
Ask yourself this then. How do you think a single person developer or even a small team would be able to get enough copies in retail to actually make a profit and keep continuing to create games?
Word of mouth is a very powerfull tool. You don't need Steam to make the sales, any other community will do too. If the game is good enough the word will spill over into other communities and the ball will keep on rolling. Mojang/Minecraft comes to mind.
It was at a low point. No doubt about it.
Having run Impulse and been making games during a 20 year period I've had to deal with the ebbs and flows first hand. A viable digital distribution platform has been a major boon for game developers.
In a world minus Steam, you could have easily had a set up where digital distribution became viable but there was no real platform available. Microsoft can barely be bothered to improve DirectX let alone provide a decent networking layer, intra-game services, account management, etc. Steam's the only one doing this (Impulse was doing it but Steamworks was, overall, well ahead of Impulse::Reactor).
Do you have a game company? Please don't take this the wrong way but when you make such absolute statements, one must ask, "How do you know this?"
It's easy on an Internet forum to have passionate opinions on a wide variety of things. But when it's you're livelihood and when you're responsible for the livelihood of dozens of employees, one cannot deal with the world as they wish it was.
The market replete with dead companies who made excellent games. Word of mouth is an important ingredient but it is not a business model.
I'll take your word for it then.
I'm guessing some of you will have seen already but some retail game stores now have a digital download section. I don't know how well it works for them, but in the case of the local GAME store it's a whole shelf full of PC games that would have been occupied by something else. Your mileage may vary.
I keep getting the feeling that if I want an alternative to Steam, that I'm going to have to program that alternative myself. That frightens me. I'm probably not the best person to do such a thing. I'm too easily distracted and the like. Plus, I'm only one person.This is one of the reasons why I try to learn about Steam. I don't think it will die because a few or many people keep bitching about how they don't like Steam. They offer something that makes the market better, even if their other policies are not forgivable (or easily forgiven). To beat it, I think you will need a beast that can actually compete with it. Without competition, Steam can do what ever it wants because few developers can really afford to leave Steam at this time. Steamworks is the baited trap that brings developers in. From what I understand, it saves devs time and money because the developers don't need to buy code or program their own code to do what Steamworks. Unfortunately this means their games are unavoidably tied to Steam (unless they offer some sort of alternative game that uses no Steamworks code).
This topic is so hot they cannot ignore it, and I say please provide a non steam version, otherwise you will piss off so many people.
Also I say yes to steam, because I have a steam account and everything for it.
It's not that easy. There's all kinds of alternatives. Why would anybody use yours?
EA's tried to do it with Origin, and it's not exactly been smooth sailing for them. EA is a company with massive financial resources, and a very strong library of first party games they can use as a carrot to get people to install Origin in the first place. They still haven't particularly bothered Steam. Do you ever hear anybody say "gee, if only this game was on Origin?"
Before Steamworks came along, companies either had to do that on their own or pay for significantly more expensive and inferior solutions like GameSpy, or use even more inferior solutions like the loathed GFWL. Steamworks is a "trap" in the sense that it offers the best features for what it does AND offers those features at an unbeatable price. Developers aren't being suckered into it, they're getting tremendous value and aren't asked for a whole lot in return.
It's possible to make a game that uses Steamworks if it's there, and uses something else if it's not. But then you have to code the "something else", and if you're talking stuff that requires servers (matchmaking, cloud saves), you have to pay for that infrastruture too. Or you let Steam do it for you, and you focus on making games.
I mean just look at how far Brad has turned around on them.
That is what some people said about Civ5 when it was announced that it will use Steamworks. I was one of the people who said that I probably won't buy the game because of this. How did that work out? Civ5 did very well. I bought the game. So did many others who said they wouldn't. Steam is something that you have to deal with now, and luckily it has very few problems.
Like I said before, I hope they won't use Steamworks DRM even while using Steam. That is the only concession that I hope for
The main thing with Origin is that it doens't have a comparable Steamworks API. Without that, no developer is going to bother to go "Origin-exclusive". There's no incentive. Until Origin comes out with some kind of API that allows even just achievements, as a foundation, then Origin will continue to be "some other non-Steam platform"
Origin 'claimed' they wanted to go into the PC market. But so far I've not seen anything from them on the Origin platform that makes me think they were serious about that.
The thing is you don't need to compete with Steam for the whole market, just one niche e.g. games made by indie developers. This means the scope is smaller, your costs are smaller, and you can scale up at a time of your choosing.
You also have the advantage of taking a fresh approach to distribution which your users may like more than Steam, and having a different client which has less bells and whistles but delivers what the user (and the developer or game studio) is looking for.
More than that though, providing a viable alternative means that eventually Steam may improve in response to what the user base is saying about your platform, however small it might be. Real competition breeds innovation.
Frogboy got the money bags, please get 20 million dollars to frogboy and he will think of it as a viable option. I think the nail in the coffin has already been sealed unless we got a rich playboy billion air on the forum who can pay that kind of cash.
I am sorry, but just state the facts.
great idea, why don't you mod people make your own game, rack up millions of dollars and pay the 20 million dollars only to find yourself bankrupt on the curb because the game failed to sell well.
Nothing competes to steam, and BTW Microsoft is no longer controlled by bill gates and they proved to be greedy fucks lately because haven't you seen the first Xbox one convention?
He already did that. It was called Impulse.
and when you divert resources to the store, because well when the store is making money hand over fist it makes sense to put all your best people there, then you stop making games and you end up with Elemental. SO it's unlikely he's going to get back on that wagon given that that path is already been tried and the gaming division suffered as a result.
I would prefer it to be on steam.
GalCiv 3 is going to be Steam-only. This has been stated several times already, both in this thread and others.
All we were asking for was to have an alternative. In addition to the Steam-version, not as a replacement. Frogboy explained why this isn't going to happen. End of discussion.
So, what was your point for necroing this thread again?
So, this is how I see and understand it is this:
Steams servers and steamworks boosts the AI by enhancing its inteligence and learning tactics players use and building ships that they have designed for factions. It also has 1 vs 1 multiplayer.
Steam is also a useful platform for updates and DLC.
Steamworks doesn't really allow you to track that kind of information from the statistics point of view. You can do int/float/average values but there's no real way as far as I understand that you can pull the build queue or ship designs. I know they're going t odo that, I'm just not sure if Steamworks is how all that data is going to be collected.
Steamworks is essentially a sharing service. If you enable the option and play whilst connected to Steam online, you will be sharing all the stuff you build, and the tactics you get, which gets added to a central server which then distributes it to other players via steamworks, and your creations and your tactics may be used (if good enough) against players.
That is how I think it would work anyway. Be funny if I was spot on.
I used to hate Steam with a passion. But more recently I made peace with it and came to like it. Steam and valve changed and evolved over the years, in a good way I would say.
Not true that 98% of gamers use steam. I have used steam in the past for games and quickly dumped it. It is a heavy weight program that is some what glitchy, intrusive, and annoying because it requires the program to run and an internet access to play the steam game in question. There are plenty of us gamers that hate Steam. Pick another release and distribution platform. Even though I love Gal Civ if you want to continue to use Steam you will not get my money!!!
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