It's a big galaxy out there! Share your ideas for new alien species you'd like to see in a new Star Control game!
Why not? I don't think I'm alone in fandom in pretending that sucky sequels simply don't exist. (I mean, it's weird how they went straight from Star Trek IV to Star Trek VI without a fifth movie, isn't it? And I keep hoping they'll make a sequel to The Matrix...)
In all seriousness, though, that seems like a significant creative pickle you've gotten yourself into. Long-time Star Control fans -- myself included -- have been wanting a "real" sequel to Star Control II for a long time. If you want to keep that fan base, you'll have to convince them somehow that the changes you've made are better than a "real" sequel would have been. And that's not easy, especially since fans have had over twenty years to think of sequel elements that appeal to them and that they, indiviudally, think are awesome and indispensable. (This is, by the by, why I think that "prequels" that explain deep mysteries in a series tend to be disappointing. Fans have worked through ideas in their minds and come up with their own reasons why certain things are the way they are... and Hollywood's "answers" are never as satisfying as ones that we like and we want in there.) Possible, yes. But not easy. I sincerely wish you luck.
IMO, one of Star Control III's gaffes was in explaining too much. Feel free to keep some mystery in there. The mark of a really good game, in my mind, is one that compels you to think about it while you're away from the computer. Do that, and no matter how many changes you feel you need to make, and I'll be an eager and happy player.
Thanks for all the information you've been giving us about the creation of this game, Frogboy! I'm at the edge of my seat waiting for September's update.
Exception to my "prequels" rule above: Men In Black III. They offered, in that movie, a far better reason for the Men In Black to consider a candidate from the NYPD than anything I had ever come up with. It let me forgive them for Men In Black II. If you guys can do that with Star Control, it would be just as good (for my money) as a high-quality Star Control reboot.
Honestly, I'm all for adding some new aliens. You could even integrate aliens into Star Control 1 without actually changing the plot much at all.
There are three categories into which these aliens might seem to fall.
1.) Un-uplifted races. These species would wind up being, basically, either planet-bound or system bound. They wouldn't have the spacial infrastructure to participate in the Ur-Quan war in a meaningful way, but could still be a source of resources, information, and even technology to the interested player. The Slylandro are a good example of this in the Star Control 2 universe - if they had been encountered by someone other than, say, the Melnorme. It stands to reason that there may be many of these races out there, and events such as the Yehat's uplifting of the Shofixti are the exception, rather than the rule.
2.) Low-population / imported races. Most of the races in Star Control 1 are very, very local. The Ur-Quan didn't bring a bunch of races from outside the map, and even neglected to utilize the Thraddash, despite their existence as battle-thralls. Perhaps the Ur-Quan could have races that they brought from much more distant sectors, in order to utilize their tactical or logistical advantages? The biggest rule, however, is that the Ur-Quan don't want new colonies outside the borders that they set for their battle-thralls, so they would be used sparingly.
Perhaps, then, we could even see some misbehaving, and attempting to create a covert colony, which you might blackmail / recruit later?
3.) Neutral races. Star Control 1 focused entirely on the conflict between the Ur-Quan Hierarchy and the Alliance of Free Stars. Without changing the makeup of either side, there is plenty of room for races that are space-faring, but don't either want to join up with the galactic conquerors, or place their ships on the line in opposition. The Melnorme qualify here - by being an entirely shipbound race, and hanging out in regions that are inhospitable enough most Ur-Quan wouldn't think to look there, even if they had the technology to overcome the massive interference, they avoided both sides. The Arilou nearly qualified, but weren't willing to let humanity fight alone.
I could very easily envision a race of space-pirates, who attack the supply lines of both sides during the conflict. Perhaps, using some technology to disguise themselves as members of the enemy - perhaps their ships even have the ability to swap their primary weapon with the weapon of ships they've salvaged, outside of battle... or their primary weapon is very bland, but they have a tertiary ability to fire a limited number of shots, as above. Their ships would be cobbled together, and their mannerisms would be as piratical as possible.
Their homeworld, if they even have one, could be in an asteroid field so dense, you'd have to be an Arilou to get to it, or have navigational sensors well beyond what most ships are capable of.
---
The two biggest things I'm concerned with don't involve the inclusion of new races. They are, first and foremost, that the character and appeal of the original Star Control races is preserved. This makes some of the races, like the Utwig and the Supox, a bit more difficult to include. How would they enter the conflict? Would they be relocated? Would they have been pressed into service as battle thralls? Would the Utwig still have lost their Ultron?
What about the Orz? The Orz entered the galaxy by wiping out an entire human sub-species. How would you keep the same balance of cute, babbly fish and eldritch terror?The second thing I'm concerned with is game balance. As I said before, Star Control's combat system is essentially a fighting game, and those are incredibly notorious to balance. The larger the roster, the more difficult balancing the characters while maintaining truly unique character mechanics and styles becomes. Since this is a reboot, it stands to reason that the player will have more than 2-button capabilities, which means that the races that do exist will need to be retooled somewhat in their operations... I'd be cautious about attempting to add many combatants right off the bat.
You are definitely my type of people.
It's just like how Heroes only had one Season, and Seinfeld somehow started with Season 2.
Anyway, I Think there's more than enough material here. I can see it now:
The game opens with the conflict between the Earthlings and the Androsynth. The player is sent in a Cruiser to check out a "disturbance". BAM, it's the Chenjesu, all like "YOU'RE NOT ALONE IN THE UNIVERSE", and "the UrQuan are coming to enslave us all! Ah!". You get some hybrid earth/chenj, exploration-based ship, and set out on a mission to recruit allies for the first Alliance of Free Stars! You get a big map. You meet new races, described here, and familiar races along the way. You can add tech from other races as upgrades to your ship, or new bases or station defenses, or new ships and fleets. You locate Precursor crap. Meanwhile, the UrQuan are doing the same, adding to their thralls. Occasionally, you meet up, and fight in famous, epic fleet conflicts. (The ones briefly mentioned in the classic games. "The Battle in Draco!")
Maybe each game plays out different? Sometimes you recruit the Mycon or VUX before the Urquan? Sometimes, they get to the Yehat first?
The game ends with the massive battle of Rigel, then, a science vessel headed for the Vela, escorted by the player.
ROLL CREDITS
....Wait...we found something on this planet! A factory! For making starships! Star Control Prime 2!?! *Freebird plays*
There, now go make my game, and its sequel so we can all finally play a good SC3 "Prime" game.
P.S., Where can I collect my Stardock writer's check?
Thanks. And on further reflection, I kind of realized how grateful I would be for any new Star Control. I seriously wish you guys the best of everything. Judging by your Galactic Civilizations series, anyway, I don't think I'll have much to worry about. (Call it fan jitters or something.)
I'm eager to hear what you guys come up with! Let us know if anything comes from negotiations with Activision, too, okay?
Oh, geeze, lost my nice long reply.
Basically: More of what we've got would be appreciated, because I will never know too much about my darling VUX or ZFP or Slylandro, and will never get tired of Supox and Pkunk and Arilou-- but I'd also love to see some more very weird species that aren't even necessarily animals; for example, an intelligent cordyceps-like fungus that pilots a drone host species, or something that evolved on a world so cold it had liquid nitrogen oceans. I'd also kind of love to see something about the highly intelligent species already here on Planet Earth, like squid, and octopus, and various corvids, but that's my own personal biogeek pipedream.
Just ignore SC3 please. The story wasn't much fun. A few races were nice much most were a bit boring. The new ships were mostly boring too, with too much focus on cloaking.
If you can make a game like SC2 again, with a story as funny and with graphics as colorful as in SC2, I'll most certainly buy it.
I wouldn't mind if you would re-use a few of the nice races in SC3 in SC4 and make them shine in a new nicer setting. Just ignore everything else.
moved to proper topic
First of all I would like to say that I am EXTREMELY excited to hear that a new Star Control is under development. I have been a HUGE fan of the series ever since I picked up SC2 on 3D0. With that being said, I agree with an earlier post that we shouldn't muddle with the alien races that were in SC2. However, I do think it would be very interesting to explore the back stories. For example, The Throdash (my spelling is off I am sure). I always thought they were hilarious!!! I have always thought the Ur-Quan were the baddest muthas in the galaxy. So, to the point of my post ladies and gentleman, I want to see more about the precursors. Who the were, where the heck they came from and absolutely positively where the heck they went. One more thing that I think would really make this project a smash hit would be the expansion of the galaxy, or universe that the game will be played. Don't get me wrong here, the size of the game on 3D0 and PC was great for the time, in fact I thought it was fascinating with the shear amount of star systems and planets within the game. But now, it is 2013, I can play the entire game from start to finish on my Android smartphone, graphics, voices, EVERYTHING! Gentleman of Stardock, we have a HUGE, let me say that again, HUGE!!!!!!!! opportunity to do something very special here. With the advancement of technology we have seen in the last 17 years or so, we should be able to put together a universe that is so big, and so fluid that the outcome of the game could be limitless in terms of different endings and scenarios based on what is explored, and what decisions are made by the person playing. I personally want to see a universe so big that it would take years to explore and finally come to a conclusion, hey that's just me. Additionally, the only thing that I was left a little disappointed about in SC2 was the way in which you acquired minerals while mining on planets/moons. In the game Star Flight, Sega Genesis, you were able to see concentrations of materials underground with a scanner, then you mined that spot till it was all exhausted. I find that much more immersing than just little dots on the ground like in SC2. I hope and pray that you guys at Stardock are as passionate about this as myself and the legions of fans of this franchise are. Like I said before, we have the opportunity of a lifetime to create something never seen in the video game world. Thank you everyone for reading!!!!!
I don't think of SC3 as canon. Star Control 2 and Ur-Quan Masters establish, imo, the Ur-Quan universe canon.
I think we can get away with a lot with the use of *something* altering the time-line way way back during the Precursor days to change things around. It obviously means that the Classic Star Control series will have a bit different timeline but also allows us to start with a new Star Control game without having to mess with Star Control 3.
Hi there, I'm also super happy there's a new SC coming. I just wanted to add that the most interesting Star Control aliens to me were the ones that looked nothing like the life we're used to seeing on Earth. Species like the Chenjesu, the Mmrnmhrm and the Mycon really captured my imagination because they were totally alien. Perhaps when designing new SC aliens it would be fun to explore totally different biologies for species that would have evolved on high or low gravity worlds, or worlds with a lot of tectonic activity, or worlds with a thin atmosphere. Perhaps they see a different spectrum of light with sensory organs that look nothing like eyes. The Sylandro are a great example of what I'm getting at. Aliens that are truly alien. I'm trying to work on that for my own sci fi story, and it's a really fun challenge.
As a fan, I have mixed feelings about anyone touching the existing Star Control universe. Couldn't you, I dunno, have 2 universes? Let the new Star Control have have its own set of aliens and leave Paul and Fred's work to stand on its own?
They've essentially stated they're doing exactly that.
I personally can not wait for this to come to fruition!! Thank you so much for finally bringing back this brilliant game series!!
It sounds like you will give this the love and attention to detail it deserves, and talking to Fred and Paul about it and seeing if you can get them on board with the project gains you even more respect from me and the other Star Control fans I would imagine. As much as I would have liked a continuation of the series I think you are right to bypass Star Control III and go for a prequel approach and start your own version of events leading to a new series but in the same vein I hope. Not any remakes as such but a retelling with differences leading to a split timeline/universe/dimension? Is that the plan?
Starting from the first point of contact between Earth and the Chenjesu sounds like an interesting idea, it would certainly give a more full understanding of the story, especially if you are wanting to attract new people as well as fans. If you start from there it could even be possible to witness events mentioned in Starcontrol I or II like the botched first contact with the VUX (perhaps we could even be playing as Captain Jeffry L. Rand (random idea)) , the uprising of the Androsynth, the foundation of the Alliance of Free Stars, taking part in the First Contact War etc. It also means we could get to know the Chenjesu at their home world and the Mmrnmhrm at the Mother Ark before they combined into the Chmmr which would make for interesting additions to the lore.
Perhaps even change things up a bit by having us meet the Gg and the Burvixese that the Ur-Quan wiped out before they meet their deadly fate. Perhaps even finding out more about the Sentient Milieu that the Ur-Quan used to be in league with, it might make for an interesting sub plot to find the members that survived like the Taalo or the Faz and enlist them in the war. So so so so so many ideas, it must be great for you guys to have such a wealth of things you could do or draw from for this project.
That all hinges on if you are planning to keep some or all of the current races from the first two games if you get Fred and Paul's permission tho. It would be a shame to lose them, the races and their stories to me are the heart and soul of the game. Not to mention I would love to see Stardock as well as Fred and Paul finally answer some of the long awaited questions looming over the series. Like what happened to the Androsynth, who are the Orz, what happened to the Precursors (sorry Star Control III), what were the Rainbow Worlds really for etc etc.
Anyway, best news all year I think, keep us all updated as much as you can! Can't wait for more information on the project, and it's awesome to see you letting the fans give some feedback and reading the posts. Kudos to all of you at Stardock
First off, as a fan of Sins of the Solar Empire, I'm happy you guys have taken over Star Control. Having made Ur-Quan Masters HD, I can't tell you the amount of times I was looking at your engine's graphical prowess with envy. I experienced this joy when I helped the 7 Deadly Sins mod for SotSE.
I personally have worked so hard on Ur-Quan Masters HD, to get new fans, and generate enough buzz to get a new game. So, forgive me, if I pat myself on the back a little.
Working on Project 6014, I can relate to this problem. What do you do with Star Control 3?
<Slight 6014 Spoiler Alert>
On 6014, we did not want to get in the way of TFB's ideas either (if they ever made a sequel). So we took up the controversial alternate worlds approach. The only one aware of these alternate realities were beings that existed outside of our dimension. They don't tell the player about Star Control 3, but making passing comments alluding that other realities exist, which the captain is not aware of.
It was controversial, because some fans (and members of the team) are so adamant about not even acknowledging Star Control 3. Frankly, I think it's the only way to deal with different forms of canon.
</spoiler>
As a wishlist. Oooh boy. Get ready.
I know some of these won't be popular, but it's my list. My #1 concern is you giving us a good game. #2, is I want a good story. Both are easier said than done.
I have been playing Star Control II via Ur-Quan Masters again recently and I must say. The alternate timeline or universe slant could work out really well if you do decide to run with that idea. It fits in with the game lore, even hailing back to Starcontrol II, with the whole Arilou/Orz and Androsynth story elements. It even mentions that Quazi-Space links to alternate realities where things play out differently. Signs point to the Androsynth being pulled into one of these alternate universes or realities by the Orz. Which they also seem to want to do with the Humans, but the Arilou had measures in place to stop it.
If your first game contains all new material from the introduction of the Humans into the Alliance up to around the events of Starcraft II, perhaps the next game would be the point at which you start pushing that it isn't the same as before in a bigger way. You could explore the DF (Dimensional Fatigue) and alternate realities thus separating it from the "prime" series. Following an Androsynth from the days of contact with the DF beings could be interesting, or perhaps a introduction/tutorial section or chapter done from their point of view. Introducing this new alternate reality universe as they first arrive there before swapping back to a human perspective, albeit an alternate one to the "prime" games.
I'm not much good with ideas for new races beyond wanting to see the ones mentioned but not seen in Starcontrol II to get some screen time. I'm sure whatever you guys come up with being fans would be great. And if you do manage to get Fred and Paul on board I am sure they would have more than enough ideas to keep you guys going.
Just promise me one thing guys! Make the music as catchy and memorable as Starcontrol II's. Each race with its own funky beats. Not the generic unfeeling droning rubbish they put in Starcontrol III. It wasn't just the story and badly written characters and weird puppet things they got wrong. The music in it was terrible on all accounts. I have faith in you guys
Please please don't make 3D realistic looking aliens. I always like the cartoonish feel of SC2. The pkunk and Zoq Fot Pic were my favorite races with their qwarkiness and seeing a hyper realistic rendering of these aliens looking ugly wouldn't have the same impact of humor and lovabiliy. I even liked the Illwrath with the joke that the big red spider is just a puppet on webs controlled by the smaller black spiders. For me I liked the style of Star Drive with some realism some cartoonish feel. Games like Starcrraft the 3D portraits of Toss and Zerg look....lame. Stick with colorful!
On new aliens to be introduced I would love some type of aliens that communicates through music notes, such that you have to find a exotic pkunk instrument or recruit a yehat musician to communicate.
Maybe a race of alien that act like matadors
Finally and most important. MORE FRUNGY CHAMPIONSHIPS
But overall please don't be afraid to be ridiculous.
Screw worrying about numbers, do a true sequel and call it something like Star Control: The Search for Precursors, or whatever the case may be... completely ignore SC3
Another thought could be ignoring Humans, have the prequel from another perspective and you (the captain of say the Chenjesu) eventually encounter the humans and help uplift them or something... the humans become a minor element and the story is unique this way from another view point.
This would then lead to the Humans becoming a major element in Star Control 2
I always thought Starflight could become a multiplayer game this way, where you can start out as one of the other "aliens" and eventually get to the point where you help save the universe (even if it means sacrificing your Grand Lovely ).
NO problem! LOVE LOVE Ur-Quan Masters HD. If the UQM community needs any help getting the word out, let me know.
Makes sense.
For us, we've got two challenges.
(1) IF Activision ultimately doesn't let Paul and Fred work on a new Star Control what do we do? I think the best route would be to create (as someone else mentioned) a separate continuity.
(2) Regardless of continuity, we want to start the game where the humans first have alien contact.
To give you an idea of how the Star Control universe might appear in a reboot imagine this conversation:
http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/TheyMade.shtml
My personal preference is that the new Star Control stick closely with the Star Control 2 game as its core inspiration while expanding it in areas that are in the spirit of it (see Starflight for reference).
A quick status on our part in no particular order:
The other (and sadly cooler) stuff I can't talk about yet. But I'll put stuff up as we get further along.
To keep expectations reasonable, we have a long-road ahead. I.e. TWO YEARS before we would even think of a beta. We have to build out the prototypes, hire up more staff, and iterate, iterate, iterate.
So a Star Control/Starflight hybrid in a new 3D engine?
Can I get it by Christmas?
This game presents a lot of challenges. The idea if retelling an already existing story to draw in new fans, while keeping the old fans interested is difficult. If you simply retell the same story old fans will lose interest, if you introduce too many new facets than the original story can be compromised.
I have 3 ideas to accomplish this
FIRST.... Hoping to sway Stardock away from the prequel/reboot idea how about a sequel similar to the Fantasy Star games where the sequels take place in the far away future with references to the past games. Maybe the main character was trapped in a form of stasis and awakens in the distant future. The Galaxy is real different now, but the remnants if the Alliance of Free Stars still remain scattered through out the Galaxy. What happened to earth and its Allies, and who was responsible? Just like old fans were intrigued by learning about the rise and fall of the sentient milieu, new fans would be just as interested in learning about the rise and fall of the Alliance of Free Stars. The game could be an action/mystery game where the player could travel the entire map again meeting new races while seeking out the old alliance home worlds to learn their fate. Maybe a few of the old races survived, and are in hiding. The game could retell the SC2 story the same way SC2 used the Melnorme to recap the sentient Milieu. By telling new fans the SC2 story through the Melnorme or a race like them, new fans could learn what happened in SC2 while old fans could skip that. I think old fans would be very intrigued to discover the fates of the races they once loved in SC2, hoping to find the ones that survived, while discovering new races in the process. Even new fans would be intrigued by learning about the ancient races from SC2 and what happened to them. the game could include little events like the discovery of a relic statue commemorating the captain on Unzervalt.
SECOND.....Since it seems like the decision has already been made to make a prequel type re-boot my first thought is tell the story from the perspective of another race. Why does the main character need to be Human. Its the start of the War and the Chenjesu are exploring space trying to find allies to join the battle. The Chenjesu have knowledge of the universe that is beyond what humans know, therefore you can add new aliens and new experiences to the game without changing the SC2 story. The game can end with the Chenjesu locked behind the slave shield. You could even tell the story from the perspective of the UrQuan. Their evolution from friendly members of the sentient milieu to evil bad guys is an interesting story.
THIRD.....The problem with a prequel is it does not re-tell the SC2 story. Even with a new game that takes place before the events of SC2 if your ever going to make a game that happens after the SC2 story needs to be told. How about a game that takes place at the exact same time as SC2, with the original story as a back drop. I don't actually have an idea for the primary story here, but maybe you guys could come up with something good. For old fans it would be kind of kool to play a game that gives you glimpses of the SC2 events as a background story.
Why does this have to be the case? I mentioned this in my post above, the old Sega Fantasy Star Games were all sequels, but still were stand alone games where the player did not have to actually know anything about the previous games. Fantasy Star sequels took place way after the previous game which allowed the game to be something new while referencing the older games through things like ancient cities and ruins. I got a kick out of things like towns named after ancient heroes that you actually were in previous games.
By creating game far into the future after the events of SC2 you could create an entirely new universe that is intertwined with the ancient past while giving old fans enough of a link to the past t keep them happy, and nostalgic. People are always intrigued about learning things from ancient history, in this case SC2 would actually BE the ancient history new fans are learning about while old fans enjoy finding out what happened to the races they used to love so much.
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