Greetings!
So here we are! July 2013. Next month will mark the 3 year anniversary of the launch of the first Elemental game!
2010: Elemental: War of Magic
2012: Elemental: Fallen Enchantress
2013: Elemental: Fallen Enchantress – Legendary Heroes
Could we worse. Could be like Star War: Episode 2: Attack of the Clones!
So where do we stand?
Legendary Heroes v1.3
We are still working on v1.3. The AI got a major overhaul for v1.3 and so there’s a lot of play testing in this. In hindsight, redoing the monster behavior and the player AI for the same version probably was a bad idea. But in the long run, it’s better to get this out of the way so that players can feel like the world makes more sense.
One nice little touch in 1.3 is that the AI will inform you when it’s cast an offensive spell (see below):
A lot of the AI updates in v1.3 have to do with handling path finding and massing of troops. There’s been some new internal APIs programmed in that have made it a lot easier for the AI to put together more effective armies. The AI will also interact more with the player.
For those who play on below normal difficulty levels, have no fear. While the AI will be more “intelligent” we are lowering the resources that they get a bit and making them make fewer decisions per turn so that they aren’t so overwhelming.
Next up for Fallen Enchantress
We have some stuff in the works but it’ll be awhile before we’re ready to announce it. Fallen Enchantress will continue to go forward with meaningful updates that we’re funding with the DLC purchases. The DLC system turns out to be a good system as players are able to get more optional content which in turn lets us keep adding new features to the game itself.
v1.4 will probably focus on some UI and performance related items and v1.5 will (I hope) be the big diplomacy update.
Beyond Fallen Enchantress
There’s a lot more we want to do with the Elemental world. We debate regularly about what we should name future things.
I.e. Elemental II? Fallen Enchantress II? Elemental: Something New? Or a completely new series? Tell us in the comments what you think.
Multiplayer
We have a lot of requests for this. Here’s the basic issue. The tactical battle system in the Elemental games was not written in a way that allows for multiplayer. All the actions in it happen within its own box. The short version is that all the tactical battle stuff would have to be rewritten, from scratch, to have the tactical battles happen in multiplayer and that’s just not going to happen. That would be extremely expensive for us. It’s not that we don’t think there should be multiplayer. It’s just a cost/benefit ratio (not just in terms of dollars but in terms of human assets that would have to be taken from other projects). It’s not something I’m happy about either.
More DLC
The DLC has been doing extremely well. Thank you for your continued support! We have more on the way. The next one we have in mind is called the “Loot pack” which is just adding a ton of new items to the world. If that does well, there’s more spells and equipment that could be added to the game world as well.
It would be amazing if we could keep making free Fallen Enchantress updates for years to come with optional DLC paying for it. Talk about a good deal for players. I’d like to see the kinds of feature improvements to Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes that you’d normally see in an expansion. The biggest problem then comes down to naming (i.e. do we need to come up with Fallen Enchantress: Infinite Edition or something someday? Give us your opinions there).
Anyway, we are just beginning still with the Elemental universe! Stay tuned! We would love to hear your thoughts on the game name issues (in terms of making it straight forward to new players).
I like this pattern of using the second part of the previous name as the first name and a new second name. Elemental: Fallen Enchantress became Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes so the next one should be Legendary Heroes: Fall From Heaven or some sort.
A few quick suggestions:
1. "Deeper" Diplomacy
2. More custom maps
3. Another campaign/storyline
I'd be happy paying for the latter two items. The first one should probably just be part of a general AI update or something. All told, this game is wonderful and I'm really glad I happened across it. I will gladly throw my money at Stardock for future games and DLC. Thanks!
Legendary Heroes: Elemental Reborn !!
Pack all DLC, expansions, and updates onto a steam-free edition of the game!!
For a future expansion I'd like to see terrain play a greater role in the tactical combat. I.e. tactical terrain that provides defensive bonuses, archer on a hill means extra range, etc.
That won't happen, as Brad has pretty clearly stated that Steamworks is too beneficial financially (not just for market access, but saving costs on hosting/uploading files) to not use it as he is now. I can understand a decision like that, provided it's based on market conditions, and he keeps his promise to make whole folks if they ever get screwed by Steam. (within reason- such as a false banning)
That said, it has bit them in the arse a bit with the last beta, and they could make it where running FE independently doesn't turn on Steam, but they haven't...
I remember that too. I think Derek said that in the preview art thread, that he saw 6 or 7 different projects in all the artwork shown.
I'm a big fan of long, confusing names with colons. Dark Forces: Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast: Jedi Academy. Wooo!
For the sake of clarity, a new game in the elemental universe should be either Fallen Enchantress II or not have FE in it at all. If it's a new expansion for FE, then yeah, Fallen Enchantress: Curgen's Revenge or something would be just fine.
For future updates to FE:LH, I'd say diplomacy and influence/culture are the two biggest aspects that could be worked on, that I would like to see.
For future DLC ideas: new items, new heroes, new monsters, new spells, new world events, new nations, etc. Another path could be to add in story campaigns for the different nations, which could slowly lead into Elemental II.
For future Elemental games, I'd go with Elemental II where multiplayer is a focus from the ground up.
All that said, I'd rather see GalCiv3 (with multiplayer support) before the next Elemental game.
I know what I want... (assassinated by Frogboy and programming team)
I know...but I'll still dream...
The deal you are offering, DLC for continuous developement sounds amazing, and i'll buy every single product in the Elemental-Line that you will be releasing, let it be DLC, expansion or Elemental 2.
Im especially excited about the 1.4 update, which will hopefully fix two of my biggest complaints about the game so far...
Keep up the great work Stardock, you are about to develop Elemental into the best strategy game of all time!
I actually think you might want to ditch the Elemental title entirely. I mean you already did with Fallen Enchantress to escape the negative Metacritic. Just being realistic here I think the name Fallen Enchantress now has more value than Elemental does. But it doesn't make sense for future titles unless they always feature a Enchantress who gets corrupted in them lol.
I would say just go with a new title entirely. I think you can use the next year or so doing updates to FE:LH to really refine, and develop good gameplay concepts. Then create a sequel with better graphics/multiplayer using those mechanics.
Speaking of updates i'm glad there is an update planned to improve Diplomacy. That's my biggest beef with the game. I might be expecting too much but i'm hoping for something similar to Total War in terms of Diplomacy. That series does it really well in that it has some depth but isn't so complex as to distract from the wargame focus. It just gives you ways to bribe or make nice with some enemies so you can focus on killing others without getting dogpiled. Where as in the current FE if you fall behind for any reason in terms of faction power you are boned.
After that the only thing left I really would like to see is maybe a victory overhaul. Better more epic Master Quest would be nice. There were some neat ideas in Warlock Master of the Arcane for that. Like the different gods you could appease, and how a God that hated you would send their Avatar to fight you, and it was an epic battle that could take many turns, and several armies to win.
In one of these DLC's, I'd like to see some more traits for units and factions as a whole. I love the customization options, I just want more.
Question: What if multiplayer had auto-resolve only combat?
^ Yikes... such a high sacrifice is not at all worth it IMO.
Surprisingly, I'm thrilled with nearly every piece of info here! I especially look forward to the 1.5 patch if diplomacy will be dramatically improved upon. I've been mostly happy with the DLC released so far, and new ones like a "loot pack" sound wonderful (of course, as long as they are priced well for their value).
In addition to what's planned, I'm most interested in DLC that adds new features to the game, both large and small. Adding collision-detection to some objects so bolt spells and arrows don't go through all walls, hills, and other obstacles would be a huge plus.
Large features like adding full-out dungeons, incorporating naval units/buildings, bringing back a vastly-improved version of the dynasty system etc. etc. would all be mind-blowingly wonderful IMO. And while a lack of multiplayer may be a bummer for some, it doesn't matter to me any -- I've always preferred to play this type of game (4x or any turn-based strategy) single player. Nor do I think the announcement should be any surprise to those who frequent these forums.
The only thing I wasn't thrilled with hearing was about the possibility of a "complete" edition of sorts down the line, perhaps with all or most of the released DLC. While it makes sense to have something like this to sell/appeal to new players coming into the game late, I dislike being someone who supported the game all along by purchasing DLC seperately, only to see it all released as a much cheaper package at a later date. Always feels like a slap in the face to those who supported the game all along.
One last (long) point I'd like to mention while discussing DLC/expansion possibilities. A huge feature I've recently started thinking about since a conversaion with a friend whom I've introduced to LH: Far more interactivity with cities. The way we envisioned it, would be introducing a non-turned based mode where you can enter settlements/cities via 3rd person the moment they are constructed. This would dramatically overhaul the sim aspect of city building (in addition to housing and general city planning, you'd be able to add many minor aesthetic features), add another deep layer of strategy to the game, while also drastically enhancing immersion. Here you can walk about town, see anything that is being currently constructed, see townspeople talking (with small text boxes dynamically popping up around you) about their lives, what they think of the sovereign, rival factions etc. Quests may be given to you by townspeople while you guide your sovereign around town.
You can give champions jobs/occupations around town that corespond to their class, like make a Warrior a full-time trainer of army units in town, or a blacksmith that improves and unlocks new weapons. And you can visit these champions in their places of employment to see how they're doing, while making use of their services. You can constuct your own customizable palace both from an aesthetics point of view, and for strategic/defensive purposes. Battles can occur while walking about town. You may encounter an assassin from rival factions. If there is high unrest, you could encounter townspeople picking a fight with you. You can also enter rival cities in full detail when they're friendly, or when you invade them.
This is only scratching the surface what of we discussed, but before I make a bigger wall of text, anyone feel free to let me know what you think of this idea (you're to be commended for sticking with me this far regardless). It may be too big for DLC, and perhaps better suited for an expansion/future Elemental title.
I don't have any good names off-hand for expansions or sequels. But some of the names mentioned remind me of Street Fighter titles:
Super Elemental II: TURBO
Legendary Heroes: Champion Edition -- That one kinda makes sense!
Looks good, can't wait for 1.3 to go live. As far as naming goes, I'm a horrible namer so I'm not even going there lol. And as I said before any DLC/Expansions/etc you guys pump out I'm going to buy them. So I'll be helping fund future work on this great game!
@Frogboy
My favorite wish for LH is a great overhaul of the diplomacy-system. You wrote that you perhaps will do this in Update 1.5.
Are there concrete plans for it? What will you change or implement in diplomacy-system?
User interface improvements and diplomacy improvements sound cool. I'm not so bothered about diplomacy, it "does enough" for me at the moment, however more depth could be interesting. The user interface is unnecessarily clunky at times though, so some love here would be much appreciated. Hopefully we can get up to date versions of the manual and spellbook as well!
I would personally also like the balance to be looked at, Hunter as a profession seems so much weaker than Beastlord (for example), and Summon the Pyre of Man is just useless in its current form. I don't understand why you cannot cast Deathlash on summoned units but you can cast Consume the Weak, which with Skeleton Horde is just free mana. It could be worth having a look again at the different classes and skill trees; I would be tempted to eliminate Commander and divide up their more interesting skills between Warrior, Defender and General skill trees. Being able to get an unrest bonus or extra gold in the General path and having army wide bonuses available for Warriors and Defenders would increase the usefulness of later heroes you didn't upgrade yourself. At the moment there are too many late game heroes who are theoretically combat specialists but in practice are too weak to use as such. Giving them army wide or faction wide bonuses would make them much more useful.
For DLC, more variety is always good, more items, more quests, more monsters, more random events, etc.
Beyond that, naval movement and maps with several continents would add a new level of strategic depth, but please make sure the AI can cope before making any major changes like that. I wouldn't want there to be any Empire: Total War style disasters, where the AI never launches a naval invasion. I also wouldn't want naval combat to become too complicated, I personally thought Total War's attempt to make it as complicated as the land battles was a mistake. I'd be fine with no naval combat at all, because it could add a whole level of extra complexity which might put people off rather than make the game more fun. Which unit is on which ship? Can normal units fight in the tactical battle? Do they all die if the ships are destroyed? Etc. etc.
Some basic tactical terrain, including "proper" castle battles where you have to break the walls, could be interesting. I also liked the suggestion that the Master Quest could be made a bit more epic, the final battle itself is generally a bit of an anti-climax, in my experience.
If all that went in, I think it would be very close to the perfect game! So at that point to make progress would probably require a version 2.0, with completely reworked engine, graphics, rebuilding the class tree and magic tree from scratch, etc. Keep up the good work, I look forward to playing the series for many years to come.
Elemental has come a long way besides the things you are already planing i would like to see a deeper quest/dungeon experience and a more diverse city building. Currently i kinda always build the same stuff in the 3 city types, maybe add some more choices in the building tree or a deeper advantage/disadvantage system for buildings.
For the long term future a new GalCiv would be great, however the Elemental engine has one feature that was hardly used but could be the key to a great game: Terraforming.
So why not use it and make a sequel to the best Civ game of all time Alpha Centauri? Just imagine Frogboy instead of coding ai for insignificant races you could make one for an entire sentient planet.
Oh, one more thing: improve unit upgrading so that a) you can choose which pieces of armour you upgrade; don't just charge the player 50 gold for upgrading the size, charge them the per figure metal and crystal cost for their weapons, armour + equipment.
Another name for the next version...
Fallen Enchantress: The Return of the Grammar Ghoul.
Kickstarter:
Multiplayer for Legendary Heroes.
It probably won't work. But it just might.... It just might.... depending on how much you need.
For Legendary heroes I would like:
1. Steam workshop for mods. I hate having to remove mods, patch, update mods, etc. Steam handles this much better.
2. Fantasy Races. I hate the 8 different human races. Add elves, dwarves, dragonmen, centaurs, flamekin, icemen, shadowmen, angels, devils, trolls, etc.
For the next game in the series:
1. Do not keep the elemental world. The races are too boring. The world is boring. The entire story is the world is grey and dead - what a bland premise with lots of bland art opportunities.
2. Do please keep making games. I love fallen enchantress and legendary heroes and I will buy whatever you release next. I love master of magic. I actually thought that galciv was not nearly as good. Too many small numeric things. +5% to everything was a bit boring. I did purchase all your games though to support the company and to try them out.
Thanks,
Mike.
mdonais: if you look at Stardock's future games, it's likely you'll get what you wish for in a few years.
AMEN TO THAT!!!!
STARDOCK, I know your a 4X game maker and my 2 cent's well be very UNPOPULAR on this forum but I believe you could make the BEST RPG to date EVER!
1. If your willing to try a new market that is RPG , take FELH and eliminate the building or at least minimize it 80%.
2. Go back to finding HEROS along the way.
3. No EXP split.
4. The world is built around you having a stack of DOOM not a army.
5. Random quest will give random spells , loot , gold and HERO perks.
6. regular quests and random stores with different inventory.
7.You and your HEROS still level up and pick paths or have a option for random spell and perks at the beginning of the game, in setting options.
8.All above helps so no two games will be the same.
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