http://www.gamespot.com/news/witcher-dev-avoiding-hit-and-run-strategy-to-releasing-games-6411596
Both The Witcher 1 and The Witcher 2 released a _crazy_ amount of post-release downloadable content, and all for free. Arguably many of the content they released were really "extras" that isn't as "core" a piece to the base game as say, the map stamps and quest pack that FE:LH/FE asks for.
I'm not sure about the amount of new quests the quests DLC adds, but at the moment quest variety in FE:LH is pretty poor - I'm seeing repeated quests (and that's not making use of the quest generation tomes) even in just one game. And there's a really high amount of quest overlap in a second game.
I don't know, I just feel that what with Stardock supposedly being one of the "good guys" of the gaming industry, it could probably do without asking customers to fork over $10 just to improve what, that I at least feel, is just addressing some of the (subjective) key weaknesses in the game presently.
Heck even Heroes of Might and Magic VI which went through post-game support hell (which involved a messy change in development studio) released full animated town screens as a free patch Or maybe I'm just being deluded about the whole Stardock being one of the "good guys" thing.
The 80+ quests / random events is rather poor amount? I disagree with that statement. One issue that may seem is that the amount of quests at each level may seem rather small and thus the overlap will be present. I do not think that the Quest DLC will address that quest overlap issue of which you speak.
The Map DLC does provide unique play experiences and there are things that go above and beyond the core game itself in the DLC (a rather huge map). So, I do disagree with the fact that this 'fix' things currently lacking in the game, the price point on the other hand I can only say that this price is about standard for this type of game.
cd projekt / valve and other popular & wealthy companies can afford to play nice
even if Stardock releases a free update who is ever going to hear about it?
they can only do what everyone else is doing:
put the base game on some 50%-75% off sale and hope people buy the DLC...
These SD guys are greedy criminals I tell ya... They would charge visitors of their building for the air they breathed if they could find a way to do it.
/sarcasm
It always makes me chuckle when people come here of all places to complain about SD not giving stuff away for free.
I think Stardock should have given away FE and LH free to people who bought EWOM.... fargin bastages!
Witcher 1 and 2 on the other hand, are not broken and both got really good reviews even based on their original release (particularly Witcher 2). Yet the devs went on to keep releasing DLC after DLC, seemingly endlessly, without charging a single dime.They even did a massive remake of Witcher 1 and it was free update for everyone who already had the game (there was no date cut off AFAIK). If you have the game, even a pirated copy seeing that Witcher 1 had absolutely no DRM on it, you can download their massive free remake update.
cd projekt / valve and other popular & wealthy companies can afford to play niceeven if Stardock releases a free update who is ever going to hear about it?they can only do what everyone else is doing:put the base game on some 50%-75% off sale and hope people buy the DLC...
BTW, my impression of CD Project Red is that it is a small-ish, indie, outfit not all that different from SD. I didn't think Witcher I in particular sold that well either to have received that much attention since they were pretty much an unknown entity here in the US before that. And even today, I wonder how many people know of just how extremely gamer-friendly that company is.
Thanks for sharing your perspective Parrotmath. Yes it is probably the quest at each level causing the overall quest diversity to seem poor due to how frequently you'll see repeated quests.
BTW some background behind what prompted me to make this post: I work in one of those big software giants and there was a discussion in the company's computer gamers discussion mailing list today about LH being on sale. Someone asked what the list thought of this game. Comparisons to Civilization V, AOW III, HoMM, etc. were made and the general consensus was that it tries to do a lot of things but does not do any single area particularly well. The point I am trying to make is that it makes it hard to sell this game against others making negative comparisons or pointing out the game's flaws (e.g. lots of repeated quests, but still charging for improving quest variety) when you can't even go the route of saying, "hey, the developer/publisher is awesome the way cd project red is and so go buy this game to support them".
If you need the DLC to like this game, then maybe this game isn't for you.
I'm retired on a fixed income, and I didn't mind paying the $4.99 for what I got.
Your impression is incorrect.
Games Development Revenue 48.6m PLN, net profit 19.5m PLN
Digital Distribution Revenue 27.8m PLN, net profit of 4.7m PLN
Games and DVD/Blu-Ray distribution/publishing in Poland Revenue 67m PLN, net loss (1.8m) PLN
Others Revenue 7m PLN, net profit 1.6m PLN
(PLN is the Polish zloty – there are roughly 3.26 zloty to the dollar, so revenues were roughly $46m at current exchange rates, with a net profit overal of $7.4m).
So basically they shouldn't get credit for all of the stuff they did give away for free just because you say so.
Do you realize that what SD did in response to EWOM was unprecedented? As in it's basically never happened? Spoiled consumers can jump up and down and say "that's just making things right" all they want. There are literally dozens, or hundreds, of highly touted games that launched in a terrible state like WOM. Name one where the company gave their supporters even one major UNDEVELOPED game as compensation, let alone two? It almost never happens. The undeveloped part being key. They ate the cost of developing a whole new game (two, in this case) in order to make things right. They developed two strategy games and gave them away for free to burned customers and at a discount to many others.
It's not like EA and SimCity where they gave away a product that already existed. They incurred essentially no extra cost to give those games away.
If you're argument is against DLC in general, fine, whatever. Make the argument all you want (though that ship has long since sailed). But stop trying to act like SD is somehow nefarious. They, along with CD Projekt, are two of the most upstanding developers around.
What I said about the Witcher I was the sales of the game upon initial release, not to date which the figures you're presenting represent (which would probably bundles and sales event at GoG.com and Steam over so many years). Evidently their epic gestures including the remaking of Witcher I contributed to the sales figure we see today.
Mm, Final Fantasy IV? They removed the subscription cost shortly after launch and everyone who had FFIV is getting the ground-up re-development and re-launch of the MMO for free.
--
As I said in the thread title, that this is entirely subjective. Additionally I am comparing SD against CD Project Red whereas apologists here (and I don't mean to use this in a negative way) are comparing SD with the rest of the field.
FWIW there's not all that many titles that come to mind where an epic mismanaged release led to massive damage to a brand (i.e. other than E:WOM and FFIV - D3 and Simcity doesn't fall into this category for so many reasons).
At the end of the day, I'm just sharing a perspective and feedback Clearly the regular forum goers here are not representative of the general gaming public in that in general. Brand loyalty to SD is wayyy above average and consequently as marketing theory tells us, folks here have developed varying extent of price insensitivity and also will be more prone to be a SD apologist. And really I am myself not all that different despite making a critical (and perhaps even describable as entitled) post here in that I found myself being the only one to actively defend FE:LH and stress the things that FE:LH does right in my (big, software giant) company's gaming discussion group amongst others who were knocking FE off as not having multiplayer and how so many aspects of the game scream of being a low budget production.*
So again, I'll just iterate one (hopefully final) time that I am comparing SD to the company who probably who is the King in customer orientation in the gaming industry (CD Project Red) and not to the rest of the field. I will readily admit that I have always been of the impression that SD is one of the few good guys in the industry when compared to the rest of the field.
Hopefully this will help shift any further discussion of this topic away from whether this entire thread is all about gamer entitlement and whether SD is good/bad and more towards whether the content really needed to be $10 DLC especially in comparison to the things that CD Project Red does.(Edit:
*P.S: Just a little note here I must say it came as a surprise to me to see no one else pushing or promoting FE:LH. This from a community (of geeks) that frequently promote Kickstarter campaigns and support indie games talking about how awesome the folks behind the games are, etc. Point being that either the E:WOM damage to SD brand was indeed great, or that SD reputation as being one of the good guys isn't as strong as I had thought.)
You're argument is basically that (and forgive the baseball reference) all pitchers in Major League Baseball are disappointments because they're not Clayton Kershaw. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong and an apologist for whatever pitcher they don't think is a disappointment. Facts be damned.
In case you don't get the reference, there can be multiple "good guys" in a discussion like this. CD Projeckt is awesome for a whole lot of reasons (the biggest two being that they make good games and treat their customers well). SD is awesome for a whole lot of reasons (the biggest two being that they make good games and treat their customers well).
If you don't like DLC, don't buy it. Others like it and buy it. It added to my enjoyment of the game. I was also happy to give SD some money since I got a decent game (FE) and a great game (LH) for free. Reading back through your posts I get the impression you're not looking to have a discussion, you're looking to grind an axe. Enjoy, but I'm done helping you.
Same here.
That's fine if you choose to interpret my intention in this manner. FWIW I couldn't help but notice you stepping in to mock every one who express disappointment in SD in other threads too so so much for "helping" me.
And at the end of the day it is fine too should most of the folks here choose to interpret my intention in a similar fashion (- or if not intention, then at least take the same attitude towards feedback that if you don't like having to pay $10 for the DLC, then don't buy it.)
The reality is that outside of the Bubble that is the SD Forums, I'm seeing more people actively dissing the FE/WOM series than singing its praises (and I am so tempted to back up this claim by posting screenshots of the discussion threads I am alluding to except that it wouldn't be wise given where those discussions are taking place). Additionally, there was not a single person who came forth to suggest that SD is worth supporting for one reason or another, despite so many having done so for various kickstarter campaigners, steam greenlight games, indie studios involved in Humble Bundle or Steam sales, etc.
I can't say that I did not expect that I would find myself seeing more folks disagreeing with me given that I'm neck deep in said bubble here, but I still for e.g. greatly appreciated Parrotmath's sharing of his perspective because he did not make assumptions about intent nor make ad hominem attacks. (And besides he has also long been an upstanding contributor to the FE community). But the overt hostility coming from you Kantok in particular is almost enough to make me disillusioned and question why I even bother and waste time being concerned
It still sounds like you are saying that because it isn't the very best, it is somehow not worthwhile at all. "not well enough" I agree with the person who saw it as a sports analogy. It seems to be the philosophy that second place is just the first of the losers. If some company that I have never heard of until you mentioned it has a great customer support, I do not see that as diminishing my Stardock experience. You seem to be saying that I should be disappointed somehow. Why would I suddenly stop being happy with what I have and start being as disappointed as you seem to be. What does that do for either of us?
It's not that you can't complain about anything you want to complain about, but that you won't be happy until we complain as well. That part confuses me.
Well since you brought it up, I think Felix Hernandez is a better pitcher than Clayton Kershaw. Clayton Kershaw plays for the big-market (Los Angeles) Dodgers so he represents a Firaxis or EA games or Ubisoft and gets a lot of the glitz and glamor simply because he's in Los Angeles. Felix Hernandez plays for the smaller-market-in-the-middle-of-nowhere (Seattle) Mariners so he is a better representative of Stardock. Fewer people know about Felix Hernandez because because the Mariners don't have as many fans. Fewer people know of Stardock because they don't do all the marketing. Where am I going with all of this? Nowhere. I'm just rambling...
P.S. LH is a great game. I'd like to have the DLC content for free, but I understand how to run a business. If people will pay for it, why not sell it to them? Stardock needs to make some money so they can pay their employees to make more great games. Rinse and repeat.
Part of those DLC are free in someway ... if you have the maps dlc for FE on Steam you will have for free if you own too FELH .
I've never bought any SD game before this, so I beg to differ by you lumping me with the rest cause you disagree with what they and me say. I will say I am pretty active on the forums, and I most definitely do not go into "fanboy territory", but you branding me like that just cause everyone who disagrees with you is "SD apologists" is rude and ignorant to boot.
Back to the topic, the DLC's added imo great content (the first one was a bit lacking I agree, you can skip that one if your money is tight), and I bought them happily knowing I supported a niche game that added fun for me. The old game was fine as it was too, and with the endless possibilities of mods and whatnot, you can add stuff you miss EASILY without paying for DLC's if you want.
My end argument is stop branding people and focus on what your real issues are, namely you can skip DLC's easily and still get your money worth imo. If you disagree bring up valid points why it is not worth it, and not "waah waah they disagree with me, they must be fanboys so I will just ignore them". So far I see you "fanboying" up that other game and no real valid points at all. ("fanboying" is an exaggeration, just as I think you exaggerate with the branding, so in my case, not meant to be taking seriously, and hopefully get you back to topic)
I played E:WOM, there was a lot of problems with the game. I spent a lot of time playing it (and the beta), playing mods, making adjustments, sending in feedback and bug reports, and overall thinking Stardock is awesome.Then they promised to give me the next game for free. I got a full copy of Fallen Enchantress when it came out. FE is a great game. I spent a lot of time playing it (and the beta), playing mods, making adjustments, sending in feedback and bug reports, and overall thinking Stardock is awesome.
Then they gave me a free copy of Legendary Heroes. Legendary Heroes is even better than FE in my opinion. I spent a lot of time playing it (and the beta), playing mods, making adjustments, sending in feedback and bug reports, and overall thinking Stardock is awesome.Then Stardock said, "Hey, map pack and quest pack for $5 each!" The money in my wallet could not leave fast enough.All that aside.It would appear that you think Stardock should be doing more, doing it better, and for free. That's well and good. I just don't happen to share that opinion. I think that they've created a fantastic game here, and I am more than happy to support them in their efforts by picking up DLC. The game will work fine without it.
On a side note, I am more than happy to compensate Stardock for their time when they provide me with content. And I would be more than happy to keep buying additional content, should they decide to create more.Furthermore, I don't care a lick about baseball. But as a D.C. area resident, I am contractually obligated to add GO NATS! to any conversation about baseball.
Lastly, the reason I like Stardock as a developer is because they make games in a niche that I love (turn based 4X), they own up to their mistakes, they have great support for their products (multiple rounds of free patches which often add content and features), and treat their customers well. There are a number of companies who do not do any of those things. If that makes me a Stardock fanboy, then I don't mind the moniker.
Really? Brand loyalty is why I'm here? I think not.
I bought and enjoyed GalCiv. However, I didn't enjoy GalCiv2 (even though it is a good game) and I didn't like EWOM (not a good game) at all. I had forgotten about Stardock, but they remembered me when they gave me FE and later LH for free. And while that might make me feel all warm and fuzzy toward Stardock, the reason I hang around the forums is that I love this game (FE/LH). I don't mind paying for additional content because I play the game so much and the new content keeps the game fresh. It puts me back in the "sweet spot" of immense enjoyment for a while longer. Most games I buy today will never hit that sweet spot to begin with. So, paying a few extra dollars on this game is well worth it.
This was an awesome read!!! Thanks guys.
It's a business. They need to make money. Not out of greed or spite, but to keep the lights on. I think I only read that from one reply. If everyone spent as much time writing multi-paragraph posts as they (SD) did producing something, who knows what kind of life we could all be living.
peace in the middle east.
yeah right.
Tui's ad?
what does that mean? ^^
New Zealand beer advertisement - used to indicate heavy sarcasm
There are many different ones but here is an example:
[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/43/dtp9.jpg/][/URL]
For what it's worth I agree with the OP that Stardock are starting to strech it a bit. I bought the original FE and FE:LH is basically selling us the same game twice. Whatever process Stardock have used during the development of this game there clearly wasn't enough preproduction as it seems Kael has been constantly chasing his tail with continual updates/tweaks etc.
But hey-ho it is still an enjoyable game, but I personally haven't bought the second DLC as I don't think it is really worth it to be honest.
This troll-initiated thread should be locked.
With apologies to Steve Lawrence, Donny Osmond, and others...
Go away, little troll. Go away little trollI’m not supposed to post a reply to youI know that your words lack logicAnd that your tone is toxicBut I believe in this game, and I must be true
Oh, go away, little troll. Go away, little trollIt’s hurtin’ me more every word that I readWhen you trash FE like thisIt’s much to hard to resistSo, go away, little troll, before my eyes start to bleed
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
