Recently I was involved in a discussion regarding the two Boston Marathon bombers. It started off with someone expressing concern about the amount of anger and hatred being directed towards the bombers.
I am dismayed and afraid about the amount of hate and vengeance for the two who planted the bombs. It is spreading the attitude of vengeance in our country. I saw a quote from Ghandi this morning which I have not verified, but it struck me as true. "An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind". What is the difference between those two and us wanting to kill them?
This comment launched a discussion that had one side advocating that we should try to understand – show “empathy” towards how people could become so “disenfranchised” that they would commit such violent acts? They also argued that it was unhealthy for us, as a society, to feel so much anger, hate and a desire for vengeance against the perpetrators.
I disagree.
We have the ability to indulge ourselves in this discussion precisely because we live in a civilization that instinctively and actively removes the monsters from society. We should be thankful that the instinctive emotion by our society is anger, disdain and hate towards these monsters and not empathy or compassion.
A civilization that frets too much on whether it's acceptable to dehumanize monsters has little expectation to survive in the long-run. It only took two monsters to shut down Boston. And I think we all know that there are many many edge cases out there that could become such monsters. Our civilization could be severely disrupted by a handful of individuals like the Boston Marathon bombers. We should show no tolerance whatsoever for individuals that act in this way.
Therefore, as a society that seeks to survive, we should absolutely show the maximum amount of disdain, disgust and contempt for human beings to engage in such behavior. We should absolutely make it clear that people who engage in this act are so loathed that we no longer even think of them as human but rather as animals, vermin, and monsters. We so reject their actions that we figuratively have kicked them out of our species.
I think it's intellectually facile to argue that it's somehow "wrong" to dehumanize human beings like this. At best, it's the result of not thinking through the consequences of what would happen if a significant plurality of our society showed an ounce of compassion or empathy towards these kinds of monsters. And at worst, it's simply indulging in feel-good sanctimonious back patting (i.e. "Look at me, I'm an intellectual because I imagine that intellectuals are above feeling 'negative' human emotions).
If we want to keep our society, we better hope that people continue to think of human beings that would seek to destroy them as monsters, vermin, animals and worse. “What is evil?” someone asked. Pointlessly and indiscriminately murdering innocents who were there to support loved ones participating in an event that celebrated excellence. That’s evil.
Just my 2 cents.
We are a nation of laws and under those laws, citizens expect justice through the laws-courts to be served.
The scales (of the evil deeds committed and the punishment for those) are balanced through justice.
Really? Are you kidding?
Not to change the subject or belabor this point but please really think about it....
Where is the societal anger, disdain and hate towards the abortionist monster named Gosnell currently on trial for killing one woman and 7 infants born in his Philadelphia abortion mill?
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/345483/dehumanizing-word-games-gosnell-andrew-c-mccarthy
First off, I want to say in many ways I am a big pinko commie liberal, but a big problem I noticed during all this, is in America, how our political leanings bias us toward everything. People on the left seemed sure this bombing was done by a white right-wing extremist. I'm not saying it wasn't a possibility, but lets be perfectly honest, if there is an act of terror anywhere in the world, you have a 95% chance it was done by a Muslim. And yet despite that fact, the Left refuses to believe that Islam is to blame. And Liberals are often very quick to blame religion for many woes in our nation, but only in regards to Christianity practiced by White people. In fact, they were calling people racist for believing the bombings were done by Muslims. I often post anti-religious stuff on my Facebook, and I posted one about how Muhammad had sex with his 9 year old wife and some Atheist douchebag commented how this was racist and we shouldn't be saying bad things about another person's culture. How fucking hypocritical is that? I don't care what your religion, culture or race is, if you are a terrorist or child fucker, you are scum.
There are monsters in this world, and they exist in many forms. Those that are willing to kill, rape, and steal without remorse are monsters. And we have to point out the monsters when we see it, and we have to fight the monsters together without becoming the monster too. This terrorist deserves a fair and just trial. Why? Because that's who we should strive to be. In the face of terror, in the face of hatred, we keep our ideals of justice and liberty and the best way to give these bastards a big "fuck you" is to continue being who we are.
so sorry to hear this... Mum's are just such a huge part of you.. I still work hard to keep my Mum at 96 in her home.. but it gets harder...many challenges...
I dread the day... and don't even want to imagine what you are feeling today... but I feel for you nonetheless...
[quote who="Jafo" reply="19" id="3348265"]These animals do not, not in any shape or form. They can rightfully rot in hell.
It always amazes me that we compare/describe the very worst of human nature and their atrocities... as 'animals'... I think it must just be from habit, having heard the term as we were growing up... because, when you come to think of it... no animal behaves as badly as humans can... they exhibit loyalty, protection, loving care to their offspring.. and any savagery in the wild is just pure survival instincts... they really don't deserve the bum rap of being compared to murderers, rapists, paedophiles and other twisted fuckups that appear in our society...
I must admit to wondering what this 19 year olds life could have been had he not been influenced by the older brother... it seemed to be a very broken, dysfunctional family where he probably looked up to his obviously disgruntled older brother in a hero/fatherly kind of way, given the absence of his Dad... who came across as a complete nutter. From being what was described by friends as a happy, bright, achieving young man with potential... it's probably the most disturbing of the two brothers, that he could be coersed to even contemplate these atrocities... leave alone actually carry it through... but still, he walked among people...families... and looked at them... knowing what was going to shortly happen to them from his actions... just unfathomable...
I'll go with vermin... or monsters... or just plain, evil... and they forfeit their right to live among us on this earth...
Our thoughts go out to the friends and families of victims of these horrific bombings. While it is difficult to turn to points of law in times of tragedy, those are, in fact, the times we most need to cling to the values, laws and rights that make us who we are as a nation. The Miranda warnings were put in place because police officers were beating and torturing "confessions" out of people who hadn't even been formally accused of a crime. We cannot afford to repeat our mistakes. If officials require suspects to incriminate themselves, they are making fair trials and due process merely option and not a requirement. To venture down that road again will make law enforcement accountable to no one. Like Obama's expanded killing program and his perpetuation of indefinite detention without trial at Guantanamo, this is yet another erosion of the Constitution to lay directly at the President's feet. Obama's Justice Department unilaterally expanded the "public safety exception" to Miranda in 2010 beyond anything the Supreme Court ever authorized. Each time the administration use this exception, it stretches wider and longer. However horrific the crime, continuing to erode constitutional rights invites continued abuse by law enforcement, and walks us down a dangerous path that becomes nearly impossible to reverse.http://ccrjustice.org/newsroom/press-releases/ccr-condemns-miranda-exception-boston-marathon-suspect-case
I couldn't agree more.
Exactly. Laws aren't just there to follow when it's obvious that they dictate the right course of action- they're there to guide us when the course of action isn't clear, and when we intuitively want to do the opposite.
Vengeance is not the answer because the only way we win against criminals is advancing civilization and our ability to prevent crime. (PreCrime: Minority Report). Currently we cannot stop the killing of innocents nor can we do the same in hopes we can stop the criminals by making them fear the "eye for an eye" mentality.
In the end good always wins (Once upon a time)
The only problem with this is that for well over 2000 years the same kind of stuff has gone on.
When is it expected that humans will become civilized to the point of correcting this?
He's to be Mirandized & handled in our civilian courts. I'm OK with that, weasel lawyers aside.
Of course, if he were walking around in Yemen now, he'd be torched with a drone strike, no questions asked, citizen or no.
Frogboy, I agree with most of what you said. We should as a society shun the type that would do harm. I'd only disagree with you on the terminology that you've used, regardless of what is done, a human is still a human. It is this ability of ours, to dehumanize a person, or a group of people that can and often do lead to these sorts of events; as it is an important first step on the road to becoming a sociopath after all.So no, they're not fit for society, either through some sort of conditioning or mental defect. They (the type of people who commit these acts) deserve swift and harsh punishment, however.. Death is no punishment. All the act of killing a criminal does is put a band-aid on the problem. It is simply we as humans taking the path of least resistance, and resolving a complex issue with a simple solution. Granted the complexity of any given issue is hardly objective, I believe it to be prudent to at the very least know the reason behind these and other terrible acts committed against our (society as a whole) people.Should we show these types of people (extremely violent criminals) empathy? I don't know about any of you, but for me, I do not have a switch in the back of my head that allows me to turn empathy on or off. It just is what it is. But if I were able to see through their eyes, does that mean I'd not judge them as harshly? Not at all. But when I look at people like those two brothers, I do not just think on the horrid acts that they committed, I want to know what led them down the path to doing these terrible things. If it were to ever come to the point in a situation by trial (within the moment instances are not counted here) where death is the only solution, I have to ask.. What broke them so severely that it would have us stare into the abyss?
Unfortunately John the human race is not capable of being civilized to that extent, and probably never will be.
So then these type of discussions are really somewhat useless, are they not?
I like to deal in facts and what the facts show us that the world would be a much better place without humans on it. Yeah I know, somewhat of a out there attitude. It's just that if humans are not ready to solve these day to day problems that effect each one of us I say lets turn the page.
I'd be really concerned if i did understand why they did this. I mean to know why they did it and to actually understand why they did it are two very different things. I'd love to know why but to understand i'd have to put myself in there mindset and look at why they believe what they did and then actually look at everything from that point of view. In the process of doing so you yourself might become the very monster your trying to study. It happens more often then you might think.
I'd just be perfectly content with knowing why and executing them. But i do believe that we need to follow the law or we change the very fabric of what america actually is. Some of you have mentioned that they shouldn't get a court hearing and should be publicly executed. This isn't the american way, you'd be allowing them a 'win' in this position. They attacked the people of boston and people from all over the world that attended that marathon. But we need to at least come to terms with the fact that it's america in general and anybody associated with america that these people hate. I don't believe we should skip trial or change the process in anyway. He should be tried just as any other criminal would or we face losing our own liberty and rights that so many people have died to preserve. Not to mention allowing that attack to alter american beliefs as it would be a resounding success for them.
In the end do you honestly think they'll win in court? I don't think so, he will get the death penalty... even if he isn't legally sentenced to death but sent to prison... do you think the inmates there will be any nicer then the law enforcement that put him there? In any case it's a death sentence.
No, i was using the term "they" in regards to terrorists that attack the US in general. Not these two particular ones.
I agree with Frogboy that, compassion or empathy cannot be the emotion towards monsters like whoever did the Boston's bombing. But anger will never be the answer for anything good.
Do you understand that this was probably the same feeling that motivated the action of these two monsters?
Let's do an analysis of the past and try to understand what Gandhi meant.
What most of you think about the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
An action that caused the death of thousands of innocent people.
And that action was approved by the U.S. population because the ANGER felt in relation to the cowardly attack on Pearl Harbor.
"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind"
“... Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”
That was one wise old gremlin.
what twaddle... there was no such thing as an 'innocent' Japanese.... their sons/brothers/husbands/fathers were brutal soldiers devoid of compassion or basic human decency in a war started by...them...
they would have happily enjoyed their spoils of war had they been successful... and I would have been a slave in my own country...
We had Jap submarines in Sydney Harbour... Jap reconnaissance plains flying over Sydney and the east coast of Australia... Darwin was bombed...they were breathing down our necks ready to hop from New Guinea over to invade Australia... only stopped by some incredibly brave, resilient, determined soldiers in horrendous conditions....
You won't get any sympathy from Aussies on the Japanese... even now... their record of savagery is well entrenched in our minds... even more so with ANZAC Day just around the corner.... WE... don't forget...
The actions of the US put an end to the war and 'saved' many 'innocent' lives.... hopefully, it will also serve as a deterrent for countries bent on aggression now and in the future...
Australia will always be grateful to the US for their help... we are a large country, but with only a small population... tonight, a child will be born who will be the 23 millionth Australian.... and will be born free.... not under Japanese rule..
G-d bless your beloved Diggers and all who would sacrifice their lives to stand between families and war's desolation.
ummm, yeahhh
The US is great at starting economic war which usually leads to a shooting war, and even if the surrounded country does not take the bait and attack, they will invent one, like the Gulf of Tonkin, or quite possibly the Maine. I find it quite shameful that 'history is written by the victors' or as Napoleon quite aptly stated, "History is a set of lies agreed upon".
How U.S. Economic Warfare Provoked Japan’s Attack on Pearl Harbor Ask a typical American how the United States got into World War II, and he will almost certainly tell you that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor and the Americans fought back. Ask him why the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, and he will probably need some time to gather his thoughts. He might say that the Japanese were aggressive militarists who wanted to take over the world, or at least the Asia-Pacific part of it. Ask him what the United States did to provoke the Japanese, and he will probably say that the Americans did nothing: we were just minding our own business when the crazy Japanese, completely without justification, mounted a sneak attack on us, catching us totally by surprise in Hawaii on December 7, 1941. You can’t blame him much. For more than 60 years such beliefs have constituted the generally accepted view among Americans, the one taught in schools and depicted in movies—what “every schoolboy knows.” Unfortunately, this orthodox view is a tissue of misconceptions. Don’t bother to ask the typical American what U.S. economic warfare had to do with provoking the Japanese to mount their attack, because he won’t know. Indeed, he will have no idea what you are talking about. read the resthttp://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1930
How U.S. Economic Warfare Provoked Japan’s Attack on Pearl Harbor
Ask a typical American how the United States got into World War II, and he will almost certainly tell you that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor and the Americans fought back. Ask him why the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, and he will probably need some time to gather his thoughts. He might say that the Japanese were aggressive militarists who wanted to take over the world, or at least the Asia-Pacific part of it. Ask him what the United States did to provoke the Japanese, and he will probably say that the Americans did nothing: we were just minding our own business when the crazy Japanese, completely without justification, mounted a sneak attack on us, catching us totally by surprise in Hawaii on December 7, 1941.
You can’t blame him much. For more than 60 years such beliefs have constituted the generally accepted view among Americans, the one taught in schools and depicted in movies—what “every schoolboy knows.” Unfortunately, this orthodox view is a tissue of misconceptions. Don’t bother to ask the typical American what U.S. economic warfare had to do with provoking the Japanese to mount their attack, because he won’t know. Indeed, he will have no idea what you are talking about.
read the resthttp://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1930
Everybody really needs to stop watching TV or getting their history from Hollywood. Try doing some independent research.
Considering the atomic bombs saved more lives than they took I can see no reason why people are bitching.... Because a land invasion would have killed millions of men, women, and children all indoctrinated to die for teh emperor.
And the reason there was an economic "war" by the USA to Japan was Japan's blatant aggression towards China. So kindly take a seat over there.
Someone asked what the suspects motives were:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/22/us/boston-attack/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
According to the surviving suspect he and (mainly) his brother wanted to "defend Islam".
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