I like the Idea that there are people in my empire careing about effictivity and improve my production.
But I seldom use them because there is one big conflict for me: I want to level up them before I use them, but you can not do both, staying in a city and leveling... I never build the Adventurer-Guild, perhaps that combination works. I am an Outdoor-boy...letting heros stay in a city is not so much fun...
Or something else...
In the game "Endless Space" Administrators gain XP for what Administrators do: building improvements and so on, perhaps a variation of this could help. Perhaps they could gain XP when you reached special milestones, like doubling the income or sth like this.
Or you offer them "Missions", played "indoor, virtually outside", like killing a Crimelord in the city, helping an old lady with her stupid Umberdroth who climbed on a tree and does not find the way back down, or killing some spiders in cellars... just to give them a chance to make some XPs while sittng around in the city...
It is nice that they are "Commanders" now, making them more valuable in fights, but still the advantage of Administrators is nice to have in the game, but as mentioned above I find it hard to play to gain a hero only for the purpose to station her/him.
I would like a "subsystem": Together with chosing "Administrator" you get a special Henchman-type, a Manager with either bonus "- xy Unrest" or "+ xy food/money, like the new traits where you get Research or Money once.
So the hero can still do what heroes do, and his earnings for the Empire in Administration result in recruiting that Administrator-Henchman.
I park them in cities only near the end-game or if they happen to be near a city and I need to build a unti for them. In the latter case I park them until they can travel again.
More than anything else this particular concept is where the two different parts of the game RPG Adventure vs Civ building are exposed as not being 100% connected yet.
I do. Really useful once you start conquering. I prefer to get them research upgrades if possible.
SOme of this is due to heroes being UP right now, but some isn't, I did this in FE as well.
Injured heroes will become admins.
Why not just make it like civ in that all troops give a certain amount of unrest reduction such that if you station troops in a city they reduce its unrest. Then make the bonus for heroes/henchmen a larger bonus such that you can have either troops occupying or an administrator to keep the peace but with out them you are in trouble unless you have almost no taxes.
I think as a "path" the stationed commander is in theory pleasant. I get annoyed when I have too many Heroes at the moment because of the exp reduction when many of them are in the same unit. In some sense, having a stationed hero or two helps me to enjoy having fewer to micromanage but still gain a benefit from them.
It might be worthwhile (but OP?) to consider traits that allow them to gain additional exp sitting in a town. Similar to them sitting in a town with an adventuring guild. Only for any town.
I like the idea from endless space: Administrators get exp from administrating!
When they get injured enough to be useless, put them in a city.
Typhoid Fever is a good example.
In FE I never seemed to find a lot of champions and so never used them for administrators. In LH, with the extra unrest penalties for more cities and the choice of champions at each fame level, I find myself taking an administrator early and moving him around to the city with the most unrest.
I don't use them for the exact reason that was said in the OP. The administrator needs to stay in cities while leveling up is outside of cities. So you take administrator that gives you like, 15% or so reduced unrest in the city and that's it. Your empire grows, unrest grows, one administrator can do so little later in game. If you take more then one you are significantly weakening yourself by limiting your fighting heroes. Basically, the problem is that there are almost no ways for administrators to level up while doing their job - administrating. This, i believe, should be addressed by giving them way to level up in cities.
I've not seen enough bonus to warrant taking administration. Nor do I park them and leave them there if there's not other things to take care of. Wandering pests. Enemys, etc..
I love the idea about administrators getting xp for administering.
The concept is good but implementation in not. Heroes are not common enough to where shackling one in a city makes any sense. They are far far more useful in the field, fighting/exploring and earning xp. There should definitely be dedicated "civilian heroes" (DLC!) that are separate system from the combat heroes so you dont have to choose between the two. Id make mobility the defining trait of the civilian classes.
So like
A Bard' has the strongest bonus but it only last for a few turns and then they need to go to a different city before they can reactivate it
A Lord cant leave the city they settle in
Merchant Guild moves between random cities for random amounts of time
Retired soldier have the weakest benefits but only need another hero to escort them if they want to move.
I used to in FE but it doesn't seem possible in LH. There are simply not many low level champions available. I think you get 2 before they start coming with their path already chosen. But if you turn the first 2 into governors its almost too late in the game to level the 3rd unless you have access to quest maps.
I love to have leveled administrator to put into conquered city until it build Bell Tower, Town Hall, Cleric to become useful. Without help, conquered cities hardly do anything.
I like the trade-off that Governors need to get out off the cities to fight now and then to get experience, and not just stay safe in the city and get loads of exp (while living their decadent city lifes).
You just need an army to fight for him, and to pick the targets carefully. For instance will long ranged opponents be spooky. Also give him some fighting abilities so he can survive abit in combat if cities are attacked or when you go out in the field with him. He is as much the Captain of the city garrison as he is the governor.
It's strategy. You have to sacrifice some exp. for other heroes to level up your administrator guy now and then (make him fight together with them, sharing experience points, or instead of them borrowing their army). Just getting free exp. staying in a city will kill these trade-offs and strategical priorities and give us a few less hard choices.
God no, absolutely never. Maybe if I have a late game worthless champ come, who already has it, I might station it...
However, as for consciously and intentionally developing a unit just to sit it in town... no. That would waste all the monsters on sitting around in town instead of leveling a water/death mage or a fire mage or an archer assassin...
I will be blunt on this. Move all the "All Units in Army get..." perks from Defender to Commander, and Commander will be used. The reason it isn't is because you have to kill all those monsters just to "retire" the unit.
The "Stationed in city" bonus perks should be divided among every tree so that any champ can get those regardless their path, and then we might have a reason to use commander; or to choose retirement pensions as I have come to call them.
ok so, same problem as before. administrative heroes are still useless, basically.
we need heroes to be able to gain some administratively related xp while governing a city. The exact numbers can be tweaked so that it's generally weaker than adventuring, but the concept has to be there
I don't find it a problem that a hero class is rather specialist and more seldom chosen. Neither I see it as a problem that they have to go to combat to earn some experience here and there.
They have their good uses, but you dont want 5 of them, but one or two is nice, and they can easely advance some levels and get really usefull traits for your Civilization.
Never use them. (FE)
I never take that class intentionally.
Even if one is given to me:
Early game I'll ignore the in city bonus bc I need my champions to lead my armies.
Mid to late game I'll dump them in some city and forget about them bc I don't want to be bother with trying to level up a worthless champion. Annoying that if I get unrest in a city to 0% their bonus isn't helping any more. They don't make enough of a difference to be worth micro fussing. There is a similar issue with buildings which lower unrest in that some of their benefit is wasted. I despise the unrest mechanic, this is just one of the problems with it.
Rescuing the governor concept
In my opinion LH should make governors completely separate from regular champions. You get them at certain fame levels, not as a replacement for champions but independently (if everyone gets them they will use them and governors will become another aspect of the game). They only live in cities, can fight in city defense but not adventuring. They level over time at a fixed rate. Their power becomes much easier to balance bc they can't go adventuring.
Why a fixed rate XP gain?
Because simple is better than complex. Nobody likes xp tied to fighting (current system). Other suggested systems gain xp though city defense and through building things/training units. Effectively, these systems would equate to a fixed* rate xp gain. To the extent that they aren't (city defense xp) the effects seem perverse: is micro moving your governor so they can fight in every city defense fun? For governors I can't see any game play benefit to tying xp to anything other than time- though I'm open to explanations. If governors are bound to cities as a non-landscape way of differentiating cities the mico- worries would disappear, and I could see a time + cityDefense making sense but cities aren't attacked over and over again so I don't think this would make much impact on overall xp growth.
* In any game your cities are always producing something. It is true that each level require more xp than the last. This is mostly done in games to balance giving more xp for harder monsters, could could be done differently for governors As cities get bigger they produce more stuff. It is easy to imagine these numbers being out of whack, and any system actually used would alter the numbers until a desirable normal play level progression was achieved- which since your cities are always building something would end up linear which is why I say fixed.
The only time I use Administrator is when a hero I get already has it. I don't level anything other than my sov and even still it feels so damn slow.
To make a fixed rate xp gain just make it that each class gains 1xp per turn regardless, think MoM here. I know this is a discussion for governors but this simpleifies the equation such that everyone is gaining experience even if they are just sitting administrating. However they gain it faster adventuring. Also you could then add a bonus to some building like a town hall that then doubles xp gain while stationed in the city thus making it worthwhile to park administrative types but still allowing them to advance. Keep in mind 2 xp a turn will add up initially but in the end for a non combat centered class its not much. To counter the free xp just bump up the xp table higher slightly (maybe 50% at most) and you should have a stable reliable system for managing xp.
Sorry if this is not clear, not much sleep the last few days (school).
If you have extra mana, you can just recast paragon (+1 level, -5 max hp, 90 mana) on your administrator. If he never leaves the city, there's no need for the extra hp. Just beware; my current game has a bug where if you cast paragon twice(or more?) in a row, the second cast will use mana but not give the level up effect.
Just reread the spell, and it uses the sovereign's hp, not the target's.
+1 for endless space way. found the concept work well in this game. Each city can get an administrator who get xp for each production?
In legendary you get lot of heroes that do nothing, personnaly I can just level 1-3 armies (and that cost lot of money), so even when you get nice heroes later you just don't level them... Administrators need to be more fleshed out, need different ways to level other than fighting.
I've suggested that instead of sitting in a city improving the unrest of that city, they get a smaller bonus, but applies to all cities and they don't have to stop campaigning to give the bonus (Campaigner is my suggested name, and it provides a global unrest reduction and a once-off cash injection for each level). I've suggested some numbers here, but they need to be balanced for three levels of the skill (which it seems is what is happening to skills that previously had five levels) and modified by map size.
I don't think Elemental, FE or LH is particularly about heroes sitting in towns getting experience, so it's probably best to not provide a big option for this. I like the idea of a small unrest reduction campaigner bonus that stacks that applies faction-wide and a bit of cash for the coffers to provide an instant "hit" to get something done straight away.
What do you think?
I never keep champions in my cities unless I have a reason to defend it from attack in the short term. The issue is that if you park them in your cities you have no good way to level them up (even with the buildings that provide a bit of xp) and unlock new governor type abilities. So if you are going to bring them along to the fights any way you might as well give them fighting skills in my opinion.
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