first of all, all the exp enhancing skills are the must, if hero is planned to develop. Thus, for couple of levels nothing happens .... I personally think those should be gone, exp enhancers are too good to pass on them, on the other hand, they are totally boring ...
second, warrior's skills are kind of boring +1 attack, +2 attack and so on for like 6-7 levels before you get sweep ... On the other hand, playing wizard: you have all this summons, new spells etc. and leveling is way more exciting ...
I would love to see some difference in the battle-animations as you level up as well.An increase in stat that has no visible difference except a change in damage-number is too boring - almost like I am just changing variables in a database (which I actually am)The whole reason of a graphic/gaming software is to remove the underlying numbers game and give us a visual stimuli - to give the illusion that we are not just changing and updating variables.
Take an archer for example:
In the beginning his arrows only hits legs and arms (and stay lodged in body until victim is dead)At max accuracy he begins to make heashots. etc.
Just an idea...
And yeah, if you were wondering, leveling is very boring..
Regarding the exp traits:I agree, they feel almost mandatory. At least make them unlock some nifty abilities
Regarding Summoner:
Only played 1 game of LH so far, as pariden focusing on summons. Loved what you have done to it. Really felt like a mid/earlygame powerhouse, and i could feel my time ticking as lategame arrived, and my summons became relatively weaker.
Lots of fun summons, but i did miss an active thing the that the summoner does in combat. Basically i always just passed Porcupine's turn in combat. Adding something like a "rebuild elemental" (heal that only can target elementals) or "chain elemental" (imprison that only can target elementals) would lead to a more active summoner. I assume its possible to have a skillpoint give +1 to summons AND a (not op) spell?
Regarding Commander
I did still find the new governor skills still rather "boring", the +100 instant research felt like it arrived way to late. (Netting 100rp instant when making 40 pr turn.. not too good.)Maybe move it to an earlier lvl? Sacrificing the combat power of an early hero should reap a pretty good reward, especially now that they arrive so rarely?(lower combat ability due to picking commander slows fame generation, maybe commanders could generate fame? Dont be afraid to make them quirky, like if you focus on the research skills , then maybe u can unlock a "grenade" skill with 50% chance of hitting self. Or a 3 (combat)turn casting time spell that does a random effect (summons a shambling golem? Mud bomb , hero explodes?, just random stuff).Also, would it work to make some of unrest modifiers of the commanders global? Hero's should be out there, lvling:P
Regarding WarriorThe +attack skills are good, but not too exciting=/ Adding some situational skills would be fun. (maybe a "hit and move back 2 tiles" or the previously suggested Decimate Hope my feedback can be of assistance
IMHO it's good to have a great number of abilities to pick. Levelling up is fun, is a "wow!" moment and so having many of those moments is great, and for not ending picking all the abilities we need to have plenty of them.
Of course if you can include more entertaining abilities than just "+1/+2/+3 attack" to spice things up then it will be even better. I am sure there are plenty of good ideas among the forum posters and also in similar games.
Also, many posters have said that champions/sovereigns are weaker than trained units. Making them level up more often would balance this issue and provide more fun during the level ups.
I agree wholeheartedly with this ^ I'm sic n tired of static tech trees they need to find a way to randomize them without making them overpowered in what sequence they come in.
I think the champions should always start at level 2 with a selected path.
After playing for a few hours i think that the xp talent should be removed and automatically applied so characters level up faster. I am finding the melee characters are generally below par in combat to the point of the game you are up to. Mage class characters seem fine to me.
Or... if you are given 4 choices instead of being able to choose every abailable skill, then randomness comes back, but this time you can see the cute tech tree and have some control among random
The generic +1 level traits are boring. In vanilla FE I chose those only if the Random didn't give me something more interesting.
As is the level trees are 1. too linear & 2. too vanilla.
Solutions i've been thinking about (all already on this thread as I'm posting late):
1. Give more than once choice per level up. Given, say, two choices per level-up, you could pick one "boring" bump in a tree and something else more interesting on the same level-up.
2. Break the trees into smaller bushes. Dragon Age II had an OK system for this kind of thing. I would really like to see smaill mini-trees for each weapon including staves.
3. Combine the vanilla stuff with something more interesting. -1 spellcasting time and a new spell. Bonus with swords and a new maneuver. I've been spoiled by what DND 4.0 did to warriors giving them lots of interesting in combat options.
Some combination of #2 & #3 would be ideal IMHO.
Completely agree, I much prefer the original FE system for heroes (both recruiting & skill leveling). Yes the random skill choices were sometimes garbage and you just picked the lesser of the given evils but it was always fresh and new. This static tree with predictable and boring choice progression is much less enjoyable.
I think the boring trait lines are the problem and not the static traits. If you have many useful options in every game the trait selection is your DECISION without relying on a random number generator.
If the trait lines would be removed like suggested here: https://forums.elementalgame.com/441857 it would be perhaps possible to include a few random traits in every path to make everyone happy.
Not sure how interesting it would be if every champion was almost exactly the same in terms of potential, pretty interchangable = boring.
I can see the point of those wanting random skills, however that is definitely a subjective matter. I personally like being able to pick where I want to go. What needs to happen (now this is just my opinion of course) is that we have so many cool things in each tree that it makes "builds" of different kinds (within each class) all very viable. Like Wizard1200 said the more interesting and "cool" options available the more enjoyable and "strategic" your choices become.
However, if you are, and never will be, a fan of skill trees then only a random system would likely satisfy. Maybe there is a really intelligent way to compromise the two systems for both styles of players.
I think the keyword is "potential", because with 17 path traits, 8 general traits and 3 - 12 spell traits (depends on the number of spellbooks) like in my suggestion you have about 30 traits to choose from and that is much more than a hero can select during a single game.
I see your point and I think it has potential. For me at least, one of my favorite things in FE was 2 heroes of the same class were rarely the same even if being built with the same goal in mind due to the randomness. I don't mind being locked into a general set of traits due to class selection but the static builds through the trees are very dull. With the current tree I rarely feel like there's a cost/value issue. There's no longer a feeling after a level where I go "Ugh which of these awesome skills should I pick this level." Feels bland and straight forward.
Not only is leveling boring, the heroes are quite underpowered compared to units that are in use by the time they reach a certain level. They're very squishy (and a hero dying means a permanent injury, thereas a unit can just be replaced by one of the same type), and where one hero can use one axe to slash for, say, 30 damage thanks to his high attack, the units can use six to slash for 120. Quality over quantity just doesn't work out. Giving heroes some better and unique equipment as well as making the skills more crazy powerful could work.
Specially for warrior type heroes. It seems logical for generals and wizards to do only 30 damag in melee combat even if they are high level, but a high level hero that can't fight against six trained units is no hero at all.
I guess the only solution would be to give hammers, mauls, ... the overpower ability, because if you increase the damage of heroes they would be too strong against other heroes.
I am afraid that the overpower ability might be too overpowered (as the name says ). Perhaps a weakened version of overpower could be a trait that could be chosen by a warrior, or if you are allowing the warrior to pick overpower, place it at the end of a long branch.
Maybe another solution (even complementary) could be (I am just making it up as I write) to give every champion attack and defend increase bonuses each level. For example, let's say that Defender has +1 attack each 3 levels and +1 defense each level, Warrior has +1 attack each levels and +1 defense each 2 levels, Commander has +1 attack each level and +1 defense each 3 levels and so on. The actual numbers would have to be worked. So your level 20 warrior would do a lot of damage to a level 1 hero, but not so much damage against a level 10 warrior and even less against a level 10 defender.
I think as a matter of principle if you have a hero that earned a high level through 50-60 battles, that hero should never be obsolete. You shouldn't be able to pump out in one turn a unit that can take at least 2 of them by itself. If melee is a viable path for a hero then it should be possible they are the strongest melee units in the game. It is the fantasy way, maybe it makes no sense that one guy can take a unit of 6, but otherwise the player is wasting time making melee champions. which are inferior at almost every point in the game. It also makes no sense it is cheaper to outfit a unit of 6 with high-end equipment than it is to buy it for the hero. Why does it cost 10 times as much for the hero?
Perhaps the overpower ability of hammers, mauls, ... could start at 50 % damage and could be upgraded like the damage of the counterattack ability. Giving those weapons overpower would make them interesting, but not too powerful, because they have a huge initiative penalty.
Passive attack and defense bonuses would work, too, but i think it is more fun to select a trait or a weapon.
But the point is they all have the *same* potential, that's the boring part. Whether you get Champion A or B makes no real difference if they all can be leveled up however you like. What's so "legendary" about champions that are the same?
Remember how excited you were in MOM to get Warrax the chaos warrior , Roland or even Torin? Each was unique. That said MOM was boring in a way that from game to game each Warrax might be a bit different but once you recruited him, you had no choice at all on how he levelled.
FE:LH is better at the part where you have choice to level, but it makes every champion pretty much interchangable which is boring. Some restrictions are good....
Let me add I am perfectly okay with giving players a choice on what traits to level, but there should be some restrictions at the start, so you dont end up not caring (much) which champion you got because you could level them up all the same way. So if i wanted a ultimate warrior it didnt matter much which champion I got (beyond some initial traits), and then I leveled it exactly the same because all choices were available?
Or am I misunderstanding how it works? I am only halfway through the first game with 2 champions.
Maybe each hero should come with unique abilities that only they posses. Having 2 or 3 "cool" skills that are unique and that once the level up trees are improved allow for different combinations with those special skills creating unique heroes that can be leveled up differently each game due to the different styles and combinations.
I think the trees have potential but just need a bit of work to reduce some of the repetitive and less interesting stuff. The mage tree is quite interesting. The warrior one is the most boring. I think they can definitely work well.
Having said that, a small element of randomness would be cool. A few special abilities that randomly appear along the tree... or maybe a small chance that when you level you get to choose 2 abilities... or a small chance that you get to choose another path.
A couple of abilities in the tree that are perhaps unique to the faction would also be interesting.
I really hate exp enhancing traits/perks/feats in general. They are either useless noob traps or mandatory free power that makes early leveling boring. Would hope to see them completely removed (except as starting factions traits and such).
I'm working on redesigning the Warrior traits. I'll post as soon as I have something useful to play with if anyone would be interested in such a thing.
There will be lines of three for each weapon type (also horses and two-handed). Each trait in those lines will have passive and active abilities.
There will also be 'stand-alone' traits which do no have prereqs. They can be either passive or active, but will generally will be a bit stronger than the 'class' traits.
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