Fallen Enchantress is classic turn-based strategy: magisterial design, beautiful stylized art for grown ups, moving & evocative score, interesting decisions throughout. It has sweep and detail; variety and rigour. It is logical (the way fantasy must be to work at all -- Tolkien and Martin understood this, but few others) and it also stirs our sense of wonder. Puzzling criticisms have been made of this design, mostly by younger writers. But for mature strategy gamers, FE has an exciting "lived" quality: your Sovereign has cataracts and is past his best, but he quests on -- the world is wide and full of terrors. It's a bit like being plunged into a cross between Middle Earth and Westeros, without (thank the gods) any lame RPG narrative imposed from above. The mechanics and those luminous numbers (Initiative that means something) tell the stories. And out of the cauldron of those random maps (the heart of the game, where design time should be focused) what quirky, strange, and surprising stories emerge. I am old and have played them all: Master of Magic, Age of Wonders, Warlords I-IV, Disciples, the Civs -- these are great games, compelling, you keep coming back to them. Fallen Enchantress is such a one. It's a gem, a game for the ages. I didn't play its precursor, but bought the game after hearing Tom Chick rave about it in great detail (the man does his homework) on the 3MA podcast. And the designer himself spoke with great gusto. I'm glad I listened. Since then I've spent many many enjoyable hours in this crazy world that delivers just the right action-result ratio: I make a decision and that has a measurable, satisfying, and timely effect (not always what I wanted of course, if the Ophidian eats my henchman); clear, sweeping, and pleasurable. Thank you Derek Paxton and Brad Wardell. I can see why you love this game.
But I wonder if the population cost for Pioneers does not take the game in a weak direction. I haven't played 1.2 a great deal; and I'm keeping an older version installed because this change worries me. It seems to slow the pace and detract from the sweep and grandeur of the Expansion part of 4X. Expansion is fun, borders are fun; it's enjoyable to see your colour spreading across the map; and worrisome (in a fun way) to see other colours encroaching.... nDervish and other writers have made the same points. The population cost is a penalty that sets my cities back, guts them in a way (30 pop is a lot when you start at 3 and grow by 1 or 2 people a turn), and penalties -- especially in the areas of city growth and expansion -- aren't a lot of fun. The population cost is what killed Civ III in a way; or for me made it a chore, seeing your cities reduced as a settler is produced. And then, the more cities you had, the more corruption ran rampant until that city on a far away island that your fertile imagination just wanted to plant could do nothing. If the problem with expansion is that expansion becomes the single and ONLY best strategy every time, then a mechanism must be created to set up interesting decisions (the Sid Meier mantra) about expansion: bonuses for other things might be better, or allow for more powerful buildings in highly developed cities; something interesting and compelling to do instead of building the pioneer for expansion. Perhaps Pioneers might be given the option to travel to an already existing city and boost growth there, or help with production (rather in the manner of the old caravans in one Civ or other) -- again, in lieu of their traditional role as city builders. Too, the pop cost would really constrain the deployment of Outposts -- this is one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game: they have multiple functions, they are fun, the AI seems to be good at aggressively deploying them. A great feature I'd hate to see curtailed. But perhaps all this has been playtested. In general, though, bonuses are better than penalties.
In his essay on the design of Civ IV, Soren Johnson writes that in Civ III the designers dealt with the perceived problem of Infinite City Sprawl by raising corruption and waste penalties for more cities to high levels. This, he says, was a grave mistake. It killed the city sprawl, yes; but it also wrecked any pleasure the gamer took in expansion. "Gamers simply didn't like having their production taken away from them -- there was nothing fun about founding a city and finding out that it can only ever produce one shield per turn." Don't want this to happen to FE. When I read in Frogboy's post that Faction Prestige (a positive bonus at least, though a comprehensive list of sources of Prestige would help) will be dropped in favour of more Unrest penalties I get very worried (along with nDervish, whose posts are worth reading about all this). Surely we don't want a game focused on corruption/waste/unrest management. That just doesn't have the savour of high fantasy.
I'm sure good decisions will be made; this is the only time I've written with a concern about a game still in development. Fallen Enchantress is worth it.
Thanks for pointing out this population cost for pioneers changet. I will not be updating to 1.2 if this is the case for exactly the reasons described in the OP. Maybe someone could make a mod that rolls this back to the original no population cost for Pioneers? Please?
In 1.20 AI has trouble in expanding. It can lose its pioneers and be doomed. Human player can think of ways of increasing population by administrators or by spells... but AI fails. As a result human player captures resources and expands but AI fails quickly.
I think that problem of cities spamming is not in population, but in trait Wealthy which is the most powerful starting trait. Though it is 500 instead of 850 guildars its very powerful nevertheless. I'd suggest devs to replace the bonus of 500 guildars to +2 guildars per turn.
The game concept is to grow and expand. By making pioneers cost of 30 population the game kills itself. It's now slow and AI is ridiculus.
I'd suggest to remove population cost for pioneers, or make it is 5 or 10, but not more. And this population should be transferred to the new city, it's strange where the population is gone now. 30 leaves the city and 1 starts a new city. Where are another 29?
I'd also suggest devs to change another trait - Adventurer. It really saves tons of money and allows human player to recruit all and every high level hero for FREE! I'd suggest that Adventurer should give 50% discount on hiring heroes but not for free.
I think maybe the population cost needs to vary according to game length (you can choose a slower rate of technology at setup) because playing on Epic the cost is enough to slow down growth but it doesn't really hamper expansion because it's already limited by the slow rate of progress - you can't make decent troops without the right technologies. On a Normal speed game I could see how population would become the new energon.
I have been critical about the 30 population design choice and wanted to direct focus to making tall strategies more competative (before the 1.2 release I already wrote about this). It is good to see that others are voicing similar concerns.The change in 1.2 made me built more towns and inns (which I previously almost never built), so I guess it was not all just bad...I agree with webusver that wealthy and especially adventurer are way too strong compared to the alternatives, but I have not experienced that the AI is losing its pioneers because of the change. I have seen unescorted pioneers walking crazy distances, parking next to various independant monsters for many consecutive turns, without ever being attacked...
I have seen unescorted pioneers walking crazy distances, parking next to various independant monsters for many consecutive turns, without ever being attacked
This is a problem. I haven't played 1.2 enough to weigh in on the pioneer cost but I definitely agree that the decision to go with vertical or horizontal expansion needs to be a critical one.
Actually I tend to find that Silver Tongue is very strong for much of the game if your sov also has the trait that gives extra spell mastery per level. For example, you lack crystal to make mage units, you find an enemy army with a mage unit in it, confess them with your Kahlan sovereign and kill the rest. I mean we're talking as low as 3% chance to resist in some cases.
Sure, you only get to use the ability once per fight, but if your army has four moves and you can attack four enemy armies that are much weaker...
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