So the question is contained in the title of the topic playing for tec or advent often faced with the fact that if Vasari in 2-3 jumps from your HW, it is difficult to build a fleet of frigates to reflect rush starbase, even use 2 factorys for spam. Who know what other ways are there to counter this tactic ?
Maybe grab corvettes and build a large number at your HW to stop it from building?
Ideally you should spot the colony frigate incoming before it gets to your homeworld. You may be able to intercept it with your Corvettes you're using for expansion, destroying it before it gets to your homeworld (or force it to deploy on a different planet). Otherwise its mostly a matter of getting enough ships in place to destroy it easily right when it starts building. If its already half way built before you get anything attacking it you're in trouble.
Also, if it is really driving you nuts you might want to experiment with carrier cap starts, so you can have some bombers in your arsenal if you really need them.
Somewhere i read 20 light frigates can kill it if its not supported by a repairing skirantra.. If you cant find a way how to destroy it, try to use it against someon and see what he is doing if he can destroy it try to copy what he did, anyway buncs of corvettes can deal with that thing if you were paying attention and started killing that stuff right from the beginning of building. A capital ship with attack ability can do a great work in it, I am recently trying Vasari in skilled multiplayer (although i haven't really played that much skilled 5v5), and i had an enemy starbase on my homeworld, the other player could upgrade 2-3 things on it but my disassemble nanites or what the heck its name on the Jarrasul Evacuator killed it in the last second (my capitalship was killed too but my HW was saved..)
Yes, but. Yes because killing that stuff is way easier than killing the starbase, BUT because you wont expect a coloony frigate going to your homeworld in the first minutes, and its hard to spot enemy ships that are not attacking, because scouts are the same category, and you are doing your own stuff like researching building upgradin, worrying on how to survive against the incoming Vasari attack etc and its very easy to miss that stuff and only spot the strange colored stuff under your home planet.. and thats way too late if you have nothing already there. I must admit I can't pay attention every second of my games and look everywhere, and i like to have a look on my allies, enemies, other planets and planning, not always looking for incoming colony frigates.
desciples with malice , desciple with malice + energy aura
malice share damage between affected ships, with who we share it here vs 1 base? en.aura give small buff on 1st lv., it good work with big fleet, but better use bonus bomber squad for more dps on starttnx all for answersfor TEC i`m found the marza give good dps support with her incendiary shells, before i`m always start game akan or sova caps for advent this is hard work
It is, best bet is just to get a Halcyon early and have some bombers to take care of it. Illuminators just take too long to get to help you out a lot here, and Corvettes can't do much once the starbase has started to deploy.
Just IMO don't bother with incendiary shells, just go for radiation bomb. Sova should do alright if you load her with bombers, missile turrets might help as well. You will be at a disadvantage if you go Akkan and get starbase rushed before you get your second cap.
Usually you can get enough LFs to deal with it...carrier caps with bombers help, but aren't necessary...space egg with nanos, marza, or even radiance can get enough DPS to help significantly, and all those caps are pretty strong leads regardless....
The key is simply fleeting early...scrap the capital ship factory, get 2 factories on HW ASAP....fleet fleet fleet...I personally suggest LFs over corvettes (though certain Vasari strategies favor corvettes)....if you are fleeting ASAP then it isn't too bad to counter (though scouting scouting scouting helps you dearly)...
Desciples
The biggest problem really is that the mere threat of a migrator at any time can put you in a huge predicament...it's easy to have enough fleet to pop a building Orky, but the problem is having that fleet there in time...you may want to attack or move your fleet in a different direction, but you know that if you do you'll be hosed cause an Orky will then pop up on your planet...
scout..... only way to get it done and live to tell about it.
better yet, build a couple of starfish. Protects against starbase and once the enemy is preoccupied in another place with your fleet, send in the starfish and attack somewhere else.
Send them on a suicide run to an interior enemy planet and blow s%$@ up.
You truly misunderstood the question, and starfishes likely will never kill an Orkulus alone.. And it would be a bad idea building them ad the enemy only has ships that are good against them, both light frigates and corvettes, and this is about the first 5-15 minute of game when you will not be able to access such expensive ships.
Some vasari players try to send a migrator to your planets (or even HW) and set up a starbase there very early in the game. This is no problem to counter because the starbase takes forever to build on your planet (e.g., 250% longer build). So you just need to have a sizeable fleet within 2 jumps of your planet and you're fine. That means always open with bunches of corvettes (30?) or light frigates (20?) and have two frigate factories somehow nearby. That's basically a solid open for any kind of strategy if you're on the front lines. If you have 20 light frigates within 2 jumps of any planet, then your enemy has just wasted resources on trying to build a starbase on you. You go over with your 20 light frigates, building about 10 more with your two frigate factories, and voila --- your cap ship has some more experience.
Now, there are other much nastier ways to try to starbase your worlds. For example, enemy brings a fleet and pounds on you while you're pounding on his starbase. Enemy's ally sends a fleet to another of your worlds so you head over there and start to fight, while enemy then slips a starbase in on to your planet. Enemy starts to build 3 or 4 starbases simultaneously on your different planets. Enemy builds a mine field and builds the starbase inside that minefield. Enemy brings along 10 overseers while building the starbase. You get the idea. Many nasty strategies. But the "early starbase rush" is easy experience for your capital ship assuming you don't open with two civic labs, ice colonization, and volcano colonization when you're in a front line battle position.
If you do get sb'd, don't panic. Just don't lose to it, i.e., run away. Then start building some ogrovs (about 7 if enemy does not upgrade starbase) or some bombers (about 12 bombers if enemy does not upgrade starbase). If enemy upgrades starbase, then he's spending more resources on a static defense. If he's doing this on multiple of your planets, then he's spending lots. So you just keep upgrading your (mobile) fleet of ogrovs/bombers. But you do need to get those ogrovs/bombers into the action before your vasari enemy builds fleet (counters ogrovs) or hanger defenses with phasic trap (counters bombers). Those hanger defenses with phasic trap are really nasty, and an advent player essentially is really stuck until his TEC ally with some ogrovs comes along to take those out.
my apologies, i forgot that this was referring to the first 15 minutes.
i was referring to how selucia said that even the threat of an orky is dangerous. by 20-25 I usually have starfish, and you only need a couple to defend your planet from a vasari colony frig while your fleet's not there.
By this stage in the game, opposing players will be shadowing the other with their fleets, so it's usually fairly easy to sneak through a few starfish (unless it's a choke point of course).
Unless the opposing player has invested in static defenses or a few frigates around each planet (unlikley, since most players go all out attack), it's really easy to sweep a grav well of asteroids with starfish 'cause of their multidirectional attack abilities.
In addition, this tactic usually causes a response all out of proportion to the threat. I've seen people pull a dozen or more frigates from their fleet to chase down the cruisers and this can be easily capitalized upon. However, if the other person does not send a fairly substantial force after them, the starfish can do a great deal of damage, since they can attack while moving in any direction and have a massive range.
The effect of all that is that it forces your opponents hand. It gives them a pair of crappy choices to make: Let them live for a couple of minutes and lose more resource asteroids, or go after them and stomp them out, but remove a substantial force from your fleet. The tactic works well against any race, though against tec it's the best because of scarce strikecraft and the ability to outrange the starbase.
the point of using the starfish is that they give you a fairly reasonable counter to encroaching starbases while they also help keep your options open.
however, it only really works on random maps since there's alternate routes to go to reach your opponent's worlds
anyway, that's something i sometimes do to even up the odds when playing as advent.
Corvettes kind of null that strategy....
People trolled with ogrov squads back in diplomacy, when there were no corvettes...it sometimes worked then...
Trying to do the same troll with starfish and in a realm with corvettes wouldn't work nearly as well...
In a 2v1 situation, some player (on the duo team) certainly could invest in antimodule ships and wreck far more havoc than they otherwise would...but that's a 2v1...
It's called multitasking...
The strategy is all about deception and moving fast. As you obviously know, most multiplayer games are set on fast game speeds, so reaction time is down. Besides, it doesn't take long at all to cause enough damage to make it worthwhile. The idea is to get as far in as fast as possible and to not engage if at all possible, and to only engage resource asteroids since they're weak and do a sizeable amount of economic damage when destroyed. It also really helps to make a distraction while you're doing it.
I still think that the Orky rush needs a nerf.
The lone colony ship is halfway bearable but when supported by an - even weaker - fleet and you can say goodbye to that planet. Same for sneaking it in. If you dont have your full fleet 1 jump away, it will finish building and after that you are death. With 2 upgrades the Orky can kill everything you can field at this stage of the game.
Ogrows certainly would help, but they are rarely viable at this stage of the game. Adjucators.... are doing a terrible job.
Imho the main problem is that a halfway good executed Orky rush has easily the potential to do 10 times the damage of its construction cost. Assuming you counter it. There is very little risk for the Vasari.... at worst he looses the a puny colony ship and at best he already has a mighty starbase at his new planet so his fleet can go to attack further.
Low risk-high reward about sums it up...
In the last two days I beat Anhpp in a 1v1 and Grimm in a 1v1 AND a 2v2 using SB rush. Anhpp is certainly a better player than I am and Grimm is at least my equal. So yes, SB rush is extremely powerful, and perhaps uncounterable if you don't immediately take the necessary steps (if you go econ first rather than fleeting you may be screwed).
It's so hard to decide whether attack the building Orkulus and leaving my fleet vulnerable to the enemy ships, or let the starbase build up by retreating to save your ships. Usually Vasari players start with Skirantra that is good for repairing the building base or Jarrasul that will sneakily throw heavy damage on your capitalship so even if you kill the starbase your fleet will be heavily decimated and you may not be able to retreat your capitalship as well because of your focus fire on that offensive bullshit. Even with double sized fleet you can take so big losses.. not to say if he attacks on 2 planets simultaneously with the starbases..
No one mentions also building turrets within range of the building starbase. But if they can reach, they also help, and are quite effective against Starbases & Cap ships (20DPS, 100% attack modifier). Later the T4 defense tech, Syngery, raises dmg by 12.5%, and shields by 250 for each add'l turret in a group, for up to 5 (ie max +50%dmg, +1000shield).
Too bad the tier 2 civil tech "Communal Labor", doesn't speed up construction rates fast enough to really help.
Yeah, disciples [spelling] with malice, is good, if he brings other attacking ships. I wonder how good a Radiance with Detonate AM would be against a brand new building starbase (200 direct dmg, bypassing shields)? I've never tried it.
Starbases have no antimatter until you give them certain upgrades.
It has 0 antimatter so antimatter-killing attacks can hit it like the Detonate antimatter, it just only damages it, doesn't remove any antimatter as it only has 0, but in theory it has antimatter as it is written on it's card.
Hm, has this been tested and confirmed?
In my testing it only does damage while it's draining AM. Once the AM is depleted it no longer does damage.
It makes sense given the description of the ability, unfortunately it limits it's usefulness in terms of being a damage dealing ability.
hmm it is interesting, I always thought they damage even when there is 0 antimatter... strange, maybe the small amount of damage done by the radiance antimatter bomb or what is this name confused me to think it damaged the base..
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