http://projectw.gaspowered.com/
Age of Empires online development is done, and this is GPG's next thing.
I like GPG and can't wait to see what it is.
agreed - my all time fav game. Totally wish you'd sell impulse (step 1 complete), buy the ip rights to dg, and change your business model to support a f2p game and collect billions. Let me know if you decide you want to hire a fanatic for this sort of thing.
meanwhile, back in reality - brad, I'm curious, have you seen any of the gameplay with their new game? I'm intrigued, but really think they are painting in really broad strokes. It's like it could be a really amazing game that I'd love or just some goofy smeh.
The challenge with the Demigod IP is that people seem to think it "failed" when in fact, it was quite a successful game. It only seems like a disappointment when people try to retroactively claim it was supposed to compete with LoL which is ridiculous. It was supposed to be a tight RTS game with MOBA game mechanics. It was never ever designed as a competitive league game and would require a rewrite to become one.
What was amazing about Demigod is that it essentially demonstrated that you coudl take Supreme Commander's engine and with relative ease turn it into a very different game. And it remains one of the most visually stunning games out there.
But like i said, the IP has a lot of baggage because people seemed to be looking for reasons to pile onto anything that looked bad for GPG. You'd think that Demigod shipped "broken". The only area it was broken was that *internet* IP based multiplayer was hosed for the first few weeks and if THAT is a criteria for damning a game, then Diablo 3 is a "failure" as it had simuilar problems when it first shipped.
Connecting tens of thousands of people at once on differing connections worldwide is very hard to do. Obviously, if we had had to do it over again with the benefit of hindsight, we'd have done it as F2P. But back then, retail was king. It was the primary way to get games into people's hands. If it had come out even a year later, we could have done F2P as a massive beta and ironed out the network scaling. But that would have required us to think of Demigod as a F2P, online competitive game rather than as an RTS with Dota-like mechanics.
I recall an initial issue being that gamestop or some such jumped the street date when the servers were not all on and you were also getting hit by pings from pirate copies, which you had to redirect.
Yes, though I consider that to be our fault, not GPG's. That is, per the Gamers Bill of Rights, our retail copies had no copy protection. Gamestop released the game the Friday before Easter and pirates put the unprotected copy and put it up on Bittorrent. This, in turn, grossly overwhelmed our proxy servers (the servers that tell user A how to connect to user . But I'd also argue that the infrastructure should have been able to handle even the warez level of users.
It's one of those urban legends where people try to say that the only reason Demigod didn't become the dominant moba style game is because it had connectivity issues for the first couple of weeks. If seamless connectivity at launch was a requirement to become a blockbuster, then WoW, LoL and Diablo 3 (just to name 3 well known examples of games that had connectivity issues during their opening days) wouldn't have been successful.
The single biggest challenge to Demigod was that the F2P model got going just after Demigod launched. It had to compete with HoN and LoL for players and those games were free. It still did remarkably well but people assumed Demigod didn't become a mega hit because of its network connectivity at launch. Occam's razor says that if you have 3 similar games and 2 of them are free to play, the one that isn't is going to be at a disadvantage.
When GPG designed Demigod, there was no LoL or HoN. They wanted (and succeeded) to make an RTS with Dota-like game mechanics. It was never imagined as an e-sports type game and there was no such thing as F2P at that point.
People seem to forget that Demigod reviewed very well. Average score was about 4 out of 5.
HoN didn't go F2P until mid 2011. For the first year it had a $30 one time fee, but eventually went F2P to compete with LoL which was by then the MOBA king. I'm not disagreeing with any of your points. If anything, this shows the F2P model is very competitive, and that even after Demigod it was still not fully accepted.
As someone who played Demigod for awhile, the rough launch was annoying just like any bad launch, because the game was great and we wanted to play. Bad launches never stopped a good game, it just makes people sit and hit the "reconnect to server" button until the problem is fixed.
I've always wondered if a dual-track model would work.
Make a FTP limited model, but then offer a full-price model. You'd lose money on the whales, but gain money on folks who don't want to keep chugging along bit by bit, as they'd know they'd get everything for one price.
The main reason I've never gotten into a FTP games are twofold
a) A ftp model has to be unfun if you don't pay up. If the game is fun without paying up, people will just not pay. There was a scrapped NCSoft game called Exteel which was super-fun, until they put the pay stuff in, then it sucked because of the grinding.
I just get skeptical of the money value of these games , as you're going to be constantly paying. Compare that to a traditional game, where for $40 I can get 100-200 hours of decent to good quality gameplay.
Maybe it's where ftp came along at the first time in my life where I feel more time-poor than cash-poor, but I just don't get the appeal.
I've played a few F2P games as a "whale" and it is very easy to get sucked into paying thousands of dollars playing a game as long as you have the cash to spend.
I'm completely fine with pay2win or pay2unlocks, as long as 1) the powerups can be gained without spending cash, even if slow and 2) the things limited to cash is cosmetic only, no special ships or weapons. But most importantly 3) all F2P games should have a clear overview of what payers get and what non-payers don't get. Nothing annoys me more than seeing F2P and the benefits basically being unknown unless you completely understand the whole game (I'm looking at you, RPGs). On the other hand, a game like Smite or Hawken are completely honest and open about what you can get with cash and those games I enjoy immensely and I have no problems paying for stuff.
I tried Demigod. As a dota player for many years, Demigod was crap as MOBA game. No way around it. I cannot see any bigger other reason it didn't end well. Dota also worked over RTS netcode but that didn't stop it from becoming more popular then WC3 and start its own type of game genre.
So, your take is that even if you owned the rights to the Demigod IP it would be better to scrap the IP and come up with something else if you wanted to create another Moba? Hearing that makes me a bit sad. I realize that DG made you folks some money and was certainly profitable, just bummed that you think public perception wise that Demigod 2 would not succeed... and perhaps it would be best left as is. Some of the characters you folks created and the mechanics are just great. The rook alone is amazing. And all of the other mechanics that are not found in other mobas (creep/defense upgrades/income upgrades, etc). Lots of great ideas that haven't really been implemented elsewhere in a MOBA (AFAIK). Even if you didn't own the IP and choose to use GPG to code Demigod 2, do you really think it wouldn't be profitable as a stand alone game (eg not a f2p game)? That's a question I'm certainly interested in.
And continuing the off topic fun... would you folks even be interested in getting into a f2p setup with a MOBA game? I'd think that would be a colossal change (full time staff for a single game, patches, balance, qa, etc). Just curious if this is something SD would actually consider of if that's completely out of scope.
If you wanted to make a new Demigod game, you would be better to create a new engine to do it. The models and other assets have value as does the IP. But what really has hurt Demigod is the widespread (and mistaken) belief that Demigod was some kind of failure. But that perception hurts it.
Demigod serves as a good PR lesson -- communicating with fans is not always the best route. Demigod's initial networking issues were no more or less severe than many other, much higher profile, game launches.
But Demigod was a success. It made millions of dollars, had a pretty sizeable user base right up until LoL shipped.
I started some shit!
I own Demigod, I think I tried it once and didn't like it. But, I think I bought it on sale, never played any MOBA game and never heard of them at the time. My reaction was, "WTF is this?" I really don't think that my dislike of it had anything to do with the quality of the game, just that MOBA is a genre that I don't like or understand. Since then, I have taken other looks at the genre and can confirm that I simply have no interest in playing a MOBA.
You should take a second crack at it, run through the campaign mode with someone. It's a much better game than most of them are. Where it fails is in the relatively short replay value it has. Lots of depth compared to the others, but not a lot of variation, unlike what you get in LOL with several dozen characters to play against, yet most of them having only one or two very specific ways to use them.
Hey guys!
I am backing up Frogboy on this -
The concept on wild man is awesome!
BTW - yes I am a backer. There is currently something cooking over at Gas powered games and well I want to see some Carnage.
The game is single player with some Cooperative play
Here is the TLDR Feature list for wildman
Wildman kickstarter now officially cancelled: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gaspoweredgames/wildman-an-evolutionary-action-rpg/posts/403739
True Heavenfall, though this forumpost by one of the devs almost confirms that they've found a publisher or something along that line.
Servo is a CM. We wish GPG the best, but I wouldn't draw any conclusions until Chris makes an announcement on where things are headed next.
I'm really wondering if Stardock is the mystery publisher.
What's the point of drawing conclusions AFTER things are sorted?? You gotta guess and such before they tell how it is.
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