Hello guys,
I just recently got back into Sins when I picked up Rebellion on the Steam sale. I spent the last couple of days feeling out the changes compared to Diplomacy, and trying to decide on a Faction and Alignment. Now I'm at a point where I believe I'd like to focus on either TEC Loyalists (the turtling/ war-of-attrition type of play seems like it'd appeal to me, and I've always liked having good economy.) or one of the Advent factions (I like the Battleball synergy, both Titans appear to be quite powerful, Culture and all the stuff linked to it seem powerful, and shields are awesome.).
So, I'd like to ask for some help deciding on a faction, and if Advent, on Loyalists or Rebels as well as some starting help like what shiptypes and researches to get early etc.
Thanks a lot guys!
Well I'm a modder, so I've checked the datafiles on such things. And in this case if it isn't giving XP it seems to be a clear bug.
buffInstantActionType "ChangePlayerIndexToFirstSpawner" instantActionTriggerType "OnDelay" delayTime 0.000000 isPermanent TRUE failIfNotEnoughShipSlots FALSE experiencePercentageToAward 0.500000
It really depends on how you define "offensive" and "defensive"...does defensive mean "good at your planets" and offensive mean "good at enemy planets"? Does it depend on whether it improves DPS or improves survivability? Does it depend on whether it helps you take out high value targets or hold your position?
In truth most abilities can be used both offensively and defensively, and thus are really neither...
Both Unity Mass and Chastic Burst would probably be clear "offensive" abilities in that they are raw DPS....Repossession is a clear offensive ability since it only is useful when attacking enemy planets....the other abilities aren't so clear...
Looking at the Coronata, I'd say that Unity Mass and Repossession are clearly offensive while Suppression Aura and Subjugating Assault are more defensive in nature (the later being defensive since it effectively reduces enemy DPS)...looking at the Eradica, I'd say that Chastic Burst and Strength of the Fallen are offensive while Purification and Unyielding Will are more defensive...
Of course, it really depends on how you use them...the Eradica is a true one man army: you can do risky offenses with the Eradica because you know it will rape most fleets and can always eat an aeria for lots of health...but, it also can hold ground very very well...if you want a titan to hold a position (such as near an SB), one that can go invulnerable and do AoEs on crack is your best pick by far...
That's why I try to stick more to the themes I mentioned above...when you try to look at the offensive and defensive themes, it can get really muddy....
In practice though it seems that the Eradica is, as you say, more suited for offensive operations than the Coronata.....
And Goa...you know the devs just put that line to troll you....they probably wrote it in after putting these lines:
INTERCEPTOR 0.100 BOMBER 0.100000
and this one
aiRetreatThreshold 0.25
You should all play AL and help fix whats supposedly broken: suppression? Subjugating assault? I clearly haven't a clue cause i malice + unity mass stuff.
One could start with the useless culture techs...global unity at tier 5 (with 2 levels) makes me cringe...
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Tested and confirmed, converting a frigate gives you 50% of the normal XP.
It now gives 10 % extra tax/extractors income.
That does have a value.
Is that a big enough of a difference?
Not enough to really justify going deep in the harmony tree most games. The advent aren't like the other races- in previous iterations of the game their civic tree was notoriously bare. On any other race there was already adaquate reason to go civic labs, and any new techs are just a bonus.
The advent however don't get a whole lot beyond new techs from the harmony tree. Honestly as a result, going deep harmony only really makes sense for a complete gamechanger- something of the magnitude of Wail.
+10% max allegiance is certainly strong. But it's not enough on it's own. Honestly being that the advent loyals have no gamechanger-tech like wail, I think what they need is a suite of changes, most notably including buffs to techs like Confluence & Actualization of Wills. Global unity though does represent a direction these changes could take: where the Advent rebels have strong militant options(Wail, Eradica, respawning ships), the advent loyals could have a better economy then the Advent is traditionally used to. Perhaps some changes like:
Assimilated Populace: Down from T4 to T2 or T3.
[comments: This tech has the potential to be good, but simply comeso ut too late to actually improve the advent loyal's early economy. By the time they can reach T4 harmony, most of their colonization is already done.]
Confluence of the Unity: Additionally increases the max population of all worlds by 5/10%
[comments: This would be an economic buff which would synergize well with assimilated populace & global unity. While they still would lack other race's trade upgrades, the advent loyals would have the best default tax/extractor income]
Actualization of Wills: Increases rate enemies lose allegiance by 50%(down to 1 rank from 2). Additionally in any gravity well where Advent Loyal culture is dominant, enemy colony frigates/scouts may not capture neutral extractors.
[comments: This would give the advent loyals an early-mid game gamechanger as they could secure neutral extractors, forcing the enemy to push back their culture if they want to take neutral extractors. it would be a pretty straightforward way to add more utility to culture for the Advent Loyals]
Well there are any number of other ways it could be done, but my point is improving the advent loyal economy would give a real reason to pick them over the rebels.
A terran world at 280 population has a base income of 7.0 credits a second...assuming an average of 2.5 extractors (each with base income of 0.4 resource per second) and applying the "standard" conversion ratio of 4.5 credits to resources, a full pop terran is basically producing on average 11.5 credits per second...
One can do a similar analysis for all planets...below is the average income of each planet type when fully populated (exclude population bonuses from other sources):
Terran -- 11.50Desert -- 9.25Ice -- 9.40Volcanic -- 7.15Moon -- 4.85Asteroid -- 5.90
For each planet, that is the average base income that is affected by allegiance...give a 10% bonus to allegiance, and you are looking at something anywhere from .49 to 1.15 extra credits per second per planet...note that this is an added credits per second regardless of the planet's allegiance since it is 10% of the base (which is taken at 100% allegiance)...
Compare that to development mandate, which allows an extra trade port per planet....trade ports have a base income of 1.0 credits per second, but with a 7.5% per node bonus you easily could be looking at 1.6 credits or so (8 planet trade route)...in a large team game, you can expect trade route bonuses to be close to 75% or even 100%...
So basically, development mandate is far superior to a 10% bonus to allegiance, especially when you consider that it also allows you to build other structures besides trade ports...that development mandate is one level (as opposed to something like Allure of the Unity which is two levels each granting 5%) is an added bonus...
Just trying to put things into perspective...
Playing Advent:
whats the absolute difference between playing advent rebels and loyalists in the early game. Whose more like to survive before the titans role out and what can we do to improve the loyalists? That is the real question here and i have no taste for Wail or the Eradica because they are very op when used (dont bother with they are not op responses). Whats more important is the loyalists and the advent overall. Is the 5% bonus to allegiance for global unity helpful for instance?
Wail was never op and after its nerf is even less dangerous.
Does the 10 % allegiance bonus help? Yes. it is a notable improvement. I wont win you the game, but it helps.
I appreciate the caution of the developers to give Advent a halfway good economy.
As I learned the hard way in a few mods Advent with good economy are actually equal to - general OP - Vasari. Which means that TEC effortlessly gets steamrolled.
Maybe another 10 % increase, but I would not go any higher.
Once the Vasari are nerfed back to reasonable levels Advent might actually stand a change in late game.
yourself Mr. Illuminators are sooooo OOOP.
My thread about Illuminators may be an opinion...the fact that lum spam is most common and successful LRF spam is not...
Your post was very funny-which just comes to show just how i can post something like "The coranata is OP" [under the right circumstances] and basically become you.
you're already worse than him... Congratulations!!!
I have a 9 step process for making the TEC and Advent comparable to Vasari.
Give the kol passive adaptive forcefield, a longer range and more damaging flak burst, and make grg cost 40 am. (making the kol have a purpose as an anti-strikecraft/anti-titan cap instead of being currently basically useless.
Give the TL's marza a +about 17-23% range boost on missle barrage
as previously stated, have the TL titan get aoe damage for ability and improve the shield by 20% and give it a 20% phase missile block.
Make Coronata better with improved direct-fire weaponry (i don't care that it's already among the best at it) and give it a ability disruption attack (preferably with a duration of at least 20 seconds)
make all culture research for the advent about 25-35% cheaper so that a culture wave of doom is a viable tactic. (I've always thought that something like this should be part of the advent's arsenal since they kinda peter out late game.) In addition, doing this would allow an advent to damage another player's eco by making the other player invest in a large # of culture centers versus trade ports.
give crusaders +7 base damage
make starfish do 35% more damage
Nerf desperation and maw damage
make vasari rebel starbase upgrades cost 10-15% more.
And now I prepare for the criticism onslaught...
No Vasari bomber nerfs?
i've always been a supporter of flak burst
i have no ideas as to a counter that the advent can have
actually, i've got an idea about that.
buff animosity.
make it work on strikecraft, increase acceleration by 100%, give it a small repulsion field around the radiance
or someone might be willing to figure out a better way for flak frigates to target strikecraft.
idea: make flak only able to target strikecraft and give them an aoe passive ability on it's weapons
"Wow, something has happened! the clouds of strikecraft fogging my mind are vanishing! I feel... WONDERFUL!"
Seems like we have another troll...
Time to update the Official Troll List....oh wait...
Nope, I'm a sometime troll that has decided to partially troll to amuse himself
By troll list do you mean everyone?
Oh god...a troll who doesn't know they are a troll....
We have a special tier for you, don't worry...
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