New topic:
Original Topic:
So two games in the last two days where someone quits because their "Build Order" is wrong!
Did we get a bunch of Star Craft players over the holidays?
4 years of playing sins and I've never seen anyone quit a game and restart for something like this!
I was using hyperbole with my statement it is the worst ever, my point being there are a LOT of areas for it to improve. I also play(ed) SC2 and before that I played it's beta, SC a LOT (10 years of beta testing and all we get a couple new units and slightly better graphics? come on blizz!). SC2 is a rush contest that has one winning strat per side and if you don't follow it exactly in time and execution you lose. I don't call that well rounded, I call that borish and unimaginitive. Blizz wanted to create an arcade game and they did. If you like playing that more by all means do so. I like games requiring thought at multiple levels of strategy with many avenues to victory.
You already outed yourself in your lack of understanding of this game in a different thread where you explain the "easy win" method of simply building a VL titan.
Mr_Book I think you may be overselling the strategic complexity of Sins a bit there. Many avenues to victory? I wish this were true but it really isn't. I wish culture was a more viable avenue to victory but it rarely is. I think the fact that a lot of SC2 players have been hopping in to Sins (as well as a lot of the Chinese players used to playing PvP MP games) and picking it up at a competitive level really fast speaks volumes. If you are used to MP RTS, it really doesn't take long to learn. And it is a valid criticism to say there are still a lot of research techs in the game that are fairly useless, let alone the entire diplomacy tree other than the feed research (useless in 5v5 MP at least). As far as the VL Titan, most people do consider it OP (I know this doesn't mean it is an "easy win method" though as you have to beat them in your window of opportunity before they get to late game).
I think most SC2 players would find Sins laughably easy to pick up and play. This doesn't mean one is better than the other - just that SC2 has a much much higher skill ceiling that is determined mainly by APM and memorizing build orders. I don't find games like that very fun or interesting either but I'll admit they have higher technical requirements on the part of the player. Sins is pretty relaxed in comparison. Nothing wrong with that though - I love that it is a really different style of RTS.
Let us analyze the different strategies in Sins...
1) Play TR, LF spam + Marza...hope game ends soon2) Play AR, LF spam + Prog...rape with Eradica and wail...3) Play VL, Orky rush + Egg....rape with Titan and Orkies...4) Play VR, get booted from lobby...
Now admittedly I over simplified some things....somewhere in there is a stage where you spam bombers or fighters or corvettes...
I am a pro SC2 player and I have never quit a game because of build order in both sc2 or sins. I have made silly mistakes like accidently scrapping my capital ship etc but no, i do not quit the game because of it. The only time when I quit the game is when I know there's no chance of winning at all. I'm not someone that gives up easily.
I was in a game where Newplayer thinks my team have lost but my team had 2 high level VL Titans and there was nothing on the map at that time that can stop us so we played on. However, I think Newplayer was pissed but he do not understand how powerful are the high lvl titans.
Ehh- if nothing else recognizing your start position and playing accordingly adds more variety then you'd have in a game like starcraft.
Well that said, it would be nice if we could get some more variety in terms of early game combat frigates.
Well some of the very skilled like How and Jbaum have a preference for LRF/flak builds...sometimes needs a bit more room though...illum spams also are actually pretty strong, mainly because they fair so well against corvettes and flak compared to the other 2 LRFs...
You do see HCs sometimes...and other interesting plays...but, as a whole, of all the possible strategies in Sins only a select few are viable 90% of the time...
I haven't seen a skilled Vasari player lead with something other than an egg...every once in a while I see a Marauder, hardly ever see Vulkoras anymore unless some troll eco think they have a cool way to cross center and wreak havoc (I don't recommend doing that strategy)...
Advent, it's pretty much progs...some players lead with other things....Auqia still does Halcyon leads, Turtle does his Rapture (though he also trolls with scout spam so take it as you will)....I lead now with Radiance unless I'm suicide...
TEC, it's Marza or Akkan, leaning more towards Marza...haven't seen a Corsev in ages, Sova rushing is almost dead (practically have to have 2 of them now), dunovs have their place but still a rare find...and kols, lol, only noobs seem to build them...
Every faction pretty much has it's "game", usually centered around the titan and one or 2 key techs...it gets boring after a while, to say the least...
Sel, very nice simplifications. I agree. It hardly makes sense to move up the tech tree now. Its all tier 0 LF spam, (and maybe corvette spam).
And yeah, the same old Caps: Egg (maybe Skirantra), Progen (maybe Halcyon), Akkan or Marza... thats about it.
Why do you lead with the Radiance, and whats it got that you want?? Cleansing Brilliance? And who is Turtle?
I remember when Sova rushing, or a duel Vulkoras seige cap rush occasionally worked. It was nice to have a little more variety. BTW, I've played with you a few times lately, as Obi 1.
I'm resurrecting this thread... mainly because we have a balance patch potentially coming and Seleuceia and EkkoTek's point are relevant.
I tend to agree. I'd personally like to see a bump in damage tables to counter the early spam a bit more.
For instance, now that LRF have a true counter their modifier versus medium armor could be moved well above 1.33%.
In fact I'd go so far as to say none of the counter modifiers should be below 1.5 (Excluding ANTIVERYHEAVY, bombers would need some nerfs if their damage modifiers were changed).
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYLIGHT:VeryLight 1.33333 (Flak versus Fighters/Corvettes)
DamagePercentBonus:ANTILIGHT:Light 2.0 (Fighters/Corvette(Side) versus Bombers/LRF/Scout)
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Medium 1.33333 (LRF versus LF)
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Heavy 1.5 (LF versus Carriers/Support/Flak)
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYHEAVY:VeryHeavy 1.0 (Bombers versus Heavy Frigates, shitfire maybe nerf bombers some or reduce this modifier to give Heavies a chance!)
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMODULE:Module 2.0 (Orkulus/Ogrov/Adjudicator versus Modules/Starbases)
DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:Light 1.5 (Heavy versus LRF/Scout, This is why neutral Heavies chase scouts) DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:Medium 1.25 (Heavy versus LF)
DamagePercentBonus:CORVETTE:Light 1.5 (Corvette versus LRF)
It's got a Marza interrupt which most TEC players lead with now. If the Revelation had a better second ability like regen AM with Guidance it might be a nice lead, I never see a revelation now.
The ability to build so many corvettes early make these openings nearly impossible.
This is a good idea, it is a bit strange to see how ineffective are ship counters even when your opponent has slightly more ships (no more than 1,5x your ship count), would make it easier to withstand unexpected very early rushes, but still won't change the boring situation of what fleets are effective, maybe makes fleet composition change a bit earlier.
I like the heavy cruiser line, as at this moment if you build heavy cruisers while your opponent has some bombers you only wasted resources, as they won't even reach the enemy ship, boom they are dead. Even worse if you are facing Vasari. Only making difference if you have high numbers of heavies, but bombers will still kill them too soon. Would make the game more interesting if you could build heavies without worrying will they ever reach the battlefield..
As Zombie said, I lead with Radiance solely for detonate AM...the proliferation of Marza's and the ease with which players can get them to lvl 6 basically means that a radiance with detonate AM is your only chance...
If you go prog or Halcyon, you are basically banking on energy aura or malice giving your fleet so much of an advantage that the enemy never gets their marza to lvl 6...
Radiance is also definitely the best Advent cap late game....it is the only ship with any sort of resistance to PMs, and detonate AM/cleansing brilliance are the only abilities useful in a late game dominated by caps and titans....energy aura, malice, etc. simply don't help in situations where you only see SC...
Some have tried to argue that shield regeneration on the prog is a great counter to missile barrage...I'm skeptical of that, it is a dangerous thing to gamble on and requires very intense micro...
sc logic says this is a long term strategy-not short term-not an openers strategy:
there is a cost involved in choosing colonizer frigates
Radiance is also short term since it counters missile barrage (which is a very real threat for sure mid-game, and possibly even early game)...
Basically, when your opponent is likely to get missile barrage, you are not likely to be in a position to get a 2nd capital ship, and thus if you didn't lead with a radiance you will limited in your tactical options...
a fair argument but its still expensive with out military applications when your building colonizer frigates and waiting for them to recharge there am.
TEC with marza is in same position....yet it is strongest lead....
its best you use your radiance and wail for now.
ADVENT OP OP!! TEC UP!! RADIANCE OP OP!! MARZA NOT GOOD AS RADIANCE!! OP OP OP!!
marza op, radiance + wail op-----revelation up (needs an ever increasing buff per update)
~
The problem is, nobody likes jalapenos.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
