Today the President, many other Americans and yours truly shed tears. It's beyond belief, beyond explanation and beyond any understanding.
Despite the grief felt after Columbine, Aurora and most recently Portland, today's "event" added a new dimension to the insanity which cavorts in our country. Twenty children aged 5-10. Teachers. Those who dedicate their lives to opening the minds and spirits of those precious, fragile sprouts.
Despite this newest horror, this appeared on Twitter:
Vipers: No compassion. No genuine human feeling. Sociopaths and psychopaths waiting to happen to some other group of people here or somewhere else. 'People'/airheads who interact with keyboards and touch screens who have no thought beyond, "entertain me". No, not vipers... vipers are snakes which do what they're supposed and succeed at doing in the context of normal Nature. These creatures are something else entirely.
If you see people crying or somber, nod your head to them. They are real people.
If you see people laughing and acting happy, ask them "Have you heard what happened in Newtown, Connecticut?". Odds on the answer will be, "Huh?". If after you tell them, they respond blithely: Run!
Run for your life.
I have been following this thread, vowing to myself that I wouldn't post......rather silently pray that whatever power let the events of that day happen would now try to fill the huge void left in the lives of those families and be the much needed support system for them moving forward.
That is what I vowed to myself.......over and over.......but then I kept reading and some of the almost intentionally obtuse replies (from what seem to be mostly pro-gun-toting americans) have pushed me into opening my big mouth.
While there have been a few people I have felt the need to respond to in this thread I hope you don't feel singled-out WebGizmos since you obviously aren't the only one in this thread with your sentiment.
Sure.....anything can be used to kill someone. Only one problem with your sentiment, guns are the only thing explicitly designed with said purpose in mind.
It is especially at times like these that I am grateful I live in Canada where I do not fear the government, I do not fear my neighbor, and no I do not even fear the criminal because should I ever need them, the appropriate law enforcement are a simple phonecall away. I am deeply saddened that in the US it appears your culture of violence and fearmongering has your nation frozen in inaction. You can't help anyone (least of all yourselves) if you are afraid. Up here in Canada we are not afraid, that is why we can help ourselves, each other and others around the world. For the most part keeping peace, spreading peace and living peace are all possible up here because we don't constantly buy and distribute the "tools of war". Gun sales in the US go up everytime something like this happens? Are you kidding me?!? Just crazy....
It's STILL not a right, John. Self-protection may be a right.... but owning a gun is not....
Who gets to decide whats a "right" and 'not a right"?
Far more often true, it seems when I or someone else disagrees with one of your sacred cows. .. and true of you, John and your comments on other peoples' art... you see them one way, others see them differently. The blessing and curse of the written word.
It most certainly is. Americans have a constitutional right to bear arms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
In other words " I believe we would kill a hell of a lot of people in this country (with guns probably) before ...........yada yada.......take those guns away." I mean...my god........maybe it's because I'm Canadian and all.......but holy crap how's that for irony?!?
You don't protect human beings with guns, you protect them by taking the fear of guns away. How is a nation that can't stop pointing guns at themselves ever supposed to be a model for peace to anyone else? Fat lot of good that yankee F-word (freedom) does if it is more often used to mean being "free to kill" than "free to live". Might do the yanks some good to look to some of us other nations and how the rest of us are able to live without fearing the boogeyman down the street......
I am so saddened by the american gun-crazy attitude and the FEAR it perpetuates.......and I fear that if the US doesn't wake the hell up soon, things like what happened the other day are just fated to keep happening there. So sad......
A quick look at your profile shows that you live in Australia. A cursory search on the internet shows that 5 years after Australia implemented a gun control law homicides are up slightly and assaults are up by some 44%! So much for gun control.
You stay in Australia and I will stay safe in the US with my 2 semi-auto handguns, 2 shotguns and a deer rifle with scope. I also hold a concealed weapon license and regularly carry by Ruger LC9 9mm.
I'm saddened by a 'so-called' Government slowly and steadily chipping away at the constitutional rights of it's people... and using ANY crisis imaginable to reach their political goals.... its more about the rights, than it is the guns. I don't even have one, and probably wouldn't but if I did want one for personal protection, I want to maintain the right to do so.
Why, that is so difficult to understand for some folks, is beyond me.
And for what its worth, there ARE "boogeymen".... bad guys, with illegal guns... in every city, in every country. Just because you don't concern yourself with it.. doesn't mean others don't.
I grew up in England..No guns allowed (at least back then) a friend of my sister was shot dead by a man entering their home after they were asleep... her father was also shot.. but survived..
He had a gun, they didn't.
So.. PLEASE.. don't lecture me about Boogeymen.
.....because battling for right(s) over human lives is crazy......and incomprehensible to the rest of the world!
Which has nothing to do with guns as the majority didn't have ownership of guns and those who had (like me) still have weapons. It was just the automatic and semi automatic weapons which was taken out of the general population, to stop mass killings .... and it has worked so far. Also Australians don't feel the need to have guns to be safe.
Good try....
Now, whilst you are feeling safe in the US....remember you are 9 times more likely to die by gun in the US than in Australia.....
...and 5 years after the US did SFA about gun control how are the US crime stats chugging along? Oh, that's right....what the OP is all about.
Clearly it really IS all about penis size ....bragging rights for owning semi-autos.
YOU HAVE NO LEGITIMATE REASON for owning weapons designed for WAR.
Unless you're talking about service rifles.....because you are serving.
Which you are not.
No problem Monk. I will agree that the basic use of a gun is to kill...but it has evolved over time for other uses...such as hunting and skeet shooting for instance. Unfortunately there are some who have no respect for life and use it specifically to kill. And as I said before as well...not everyone uses a gun to kill unless specifically for protection...and if that happens I think they have proven the point for needing a gun...they obviously lived in a condition that called for ownership of a gun...believe it or not it does happen. Now...in a perfect world we would have no need for a gun...that's a world I would love to live in...but that world does not exist...when it does I'll one the first one to cheer. And the problem has existed for far longer than people will even acknowledge...it's called war. But because we don't actually see it and it's not in our neighborhood we just ignore it. But I'd bet the people dying as a result of it wishes we wouldn't.
It you have someone living in an area that is violent...and because of economic reason they cannot relocate themselves away from the violence...would you deny them a gun for protection...or would you rather they became a victim? And that scenario exist for a lot of people. None of this is as simple as some think it is.
I would prefer we lived in a non violent world. Until the human factor is addressed the problem will remain.
Seriously...who did I insult..point it out. Your grabbing at straws now.
Indeed... and glad to see you again. Yes, I can't fathom why people can't grasp that guns cause fear. Even when the owner is perfectly stable and knowledgeable in safety.
The problem is that they stolen. The owner could go bonkers... or those surrounding him/her. All I am saying is FAR tighter controls on sales and ownership. Far better access to mental health. Far better surveillance. The lethality of guns dictates that. And folks - please - no car examples.
As it is, it's the wild west... and that has to change.
@Giz: Explained it to you on the phone. Remember how we got acquainted?
There is no place in private hands for self-loading weapons of any sort.
If it's again this American excuse to self-protect then learn to aim. ONE bullet in a gun in the hands of a COMPETENT person is all the deterrent you SHOULD ever need.
Anyone who cannot hit what they aim at with one bullet should never be given a gun.
When guns are restricted to single-action it makes it oh-so-tedious to engage in mass murder.
Quoting WebGizmos, reply 162Now...in a perfect world we would have no need for a gun...that's a world I would love to live in...but that world does not exist.
Web....choose your pick, [link] and no, the US isn't top of the list....but it ain't on the bottom either...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
For all of the back and forth in this thread. I would like some american (any pro-gun-toting american) to clearly point out to me how citizen gun ownership (particularily automatic weapons) in the US makes for a safer public and why if that is true, there are exponentially more gun-related deaths per capita in the US compared to any other first-world nations?
Why do australians (as evidenced in this thread) and canadians not require a machinegun to feel safe? Why would I (a canadian) feel nervous if I knew my neighbors thought it necessary to own a gun (nevermind an arsenal as many americans do) and I would in fact feel I should move away. I would (and most canadians would) feel MORE threatened by having a gun-toting neighbor in the neighborhood not the other way around!
I dont think any of us mentioned needing an assault rifle or a machine gun.
I see none of you ever talk about all the BAD people.. with illegal guns, that gun control will do NOTHING about.
Stay in your peaceful little neighborhoods, and water your flowers, smoke ur peace pipes and pretend there arent people out here in the real world getting slaughtered by the thousands by people with illegal weapons.
And when one day you are approached by one of these characters, car jacking, home invasion, robbery , rape, kidnapping etc.. you can preach at THEM about laying down their arms... right before they put a bullet in your head.
Better still, go preach at all the fathers of murdered daughters and sons and wives and mothers and fathers.
If it can happen to them, it can happen to me, and my family.. and yours. I would just like to maintain MY RIGHT to defend..US.
You.. can do what you.. want...Just leave MY rights.. alone.
Don't even get me started on the need for protection if a breakdown of society comes about, and the food starts running out.
and I think most Americans want the opportunity to defend themselves with a gun. I can understand why you guys would think this way. I can't see any talk about gun control taking away the 'right' and it never will. The difference is what the protection should be.
It's a debate worth having in the US, we did, everyone was prepared to compromise for the good of the community and we are happy with the results.
the_Monk ... back when I was 15 - 16 I was in a rifle club.... open range shooting ....303s and 762s ....all were bolt action single shot...and I could hit the side of a barn.... I managed an inner and 11 bulls at 600yards, aka 'a possible' ...even got a crappy plaque for it. I used to teach younger kids to shoot, and yes, I too had a healthy respect for them.
I did fire one 'automatic'...a .22 target pistol, again on a range.... but that's how they came...self-loading.... pretty bloody useless for "self defense" as the trigger pressure was so light it'd probably go off in a light breeze....hitting everything OTHER than the intended target.
I've never seen a gun of any kind ever outside a rifle range or out of the hands of a Government authorised person [police/army/etc].
Australia is about as non-gun as you can get. Yes, there are criminals who will have them....
....but there are also Police who do have them.
In our [sane] world that's all that matters...
@vStyler
I have living relatives in serveral major european cities, several canadian cities, and a few brave ones living in the states. None of my relatives have ever seen gun-violence (or any of the violent acts you described) save for something on television and my non-US relatives, like me don't have to live in fear of it possibly happening. The relatives in the US however are afraid of gun-violence potentially happening to them eventhough they live in similar neighborhoods to those the rest of us live in. Someone should really try to answer the "why" of that for themselves and just maybe there would be some real change in the US for once.
Incorrect, John. Read the first few pages. Lightstar had a particular way of dealing with that.
Go preach to the parents of the dead in all the attacks... Tell them how guns made them safer. For your own safety... Do it from a significant distance.
Fact is.. There are examples of both points of view.... no one can win this argument.
Your right.. guns didn't make it safer for those kids.. because no one around them.. had one.
They were unprotected... from guns, knives, bombs, poison, gas, rocks and sugar.
Agree completely.
My issue isn't with guns being used appropriately (ie. police, military, even farmers for pest control etc.) it is (like you also stated) with auto-loading guns, ammo that is capable of busting through armour and weapons made availbable to the general public that are known to be easily modifyable. The public citizen should not have the right to possess such weaponry nor should ANYONE have the right to a CONCEALED weapon? Seriously? That's just crazy-talk...
Couple that with having that type of "killing hardware" so readily in your homes......the place your children should be able to refer to as their sanctuary. How an american parent can EVER explain why daddy/mommy have various handguns, shotguns, high-powered rifles, semi-auto assault rifles, night-vision scopes, kevlar vests and disintegrating-vest-penetrating ammunition in their sanctuary and not hang their head in shame while doing so is beyond me. How are those children ever to grow up without seeing everything tainted by fear........those children don't stand a chance.........it is seriously enough to make one cry.
You'll never understand at that rate, John. If there were proper controls and mentally ill people got treatment they wouldn't need protection... wait a minute... wasn't it you who just got finished opposing protection because it would be expensive and because "it would turn schools into armed camps"? Can't have it both/either/or any way according to you...
Right... it's all about sour grapes. How did I know? 0 empathy.
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