Today the President, many other Americans and yours truly shed tears. It's beyond belief, beyond explanation and beyond any understanding.
Despite the grief felt after Columbine, Aurora and most recently Portland, today's "event" added a new dimension to the insanity which cavorts in our country. Twenty children aged 5-10. Teachers. Those who dedicate their lives to opening the minds and spirits of those precious, fragile sprouts.
Despite this newest horror, this appeared on Twitter:
Vipers: No compassion. No genuine human feeling. Sociopaths and psychopaths waiting to happen to some other group of people here or somewhere else. 'People'/airheads who interact with keyboards and touch screens who have no thought beyond, "entertain me". No, not vipers... vipers are snakes which do what they're supposed and succeed at doing in the context of normal Nature. These creatures are something else entirely.
If you see people crying or somber, nod your head to them. They are real people.
If you see people laughing and acting happy, ask them "Have you heard what happened in Newtown, Connecticut?". Odds on the answer will be, "Huh?". If after you tell them, they respond blithely: Run!
Run for your life.
Truth is never told.
Only discovered.
♥
As Jafo said, "The argument is absurd". Guns are designed to kill. Therefore they engender fear.
The logical response to this is not to buy guns in the first place, and therefore not to cause the fear which causes others to buy guns to defend themselves.
The logical response is to purge violence as well as the means to perpetrate it and make health care (Psychiatric and Medical) available to all.
"They'll only find another way" is denial. It's denial of the fact that the "need" for a gun/weapon is pathological.
You "need" food, water, clothing, shelter, health care, love and other people. You do not "need" guns or other weapons. They only cause fear and "pre-emptive" violence.
They solve nothing.
Empathy with those mourning the results of this kind of violence alone should dictate the solutions.
Guns only engender fear when you add the human equation and your dumb enough to climb through someones window. The fact is a gun is an inanimate object which when left alone does nothing but turn to rust...until of course you add the human factor. Then all hell can break loose. But this is not the normal outcome. For a lot of people they engender food and protection.
There is nothing logical about it. Guns have been used for centuries for all kinds of reasons...mainly for protection and hunting...it has only been recently that the domestic violence of this scale using a gun has come about. The fear should be channeled towards your fellow humans since it is humans causing the fear and violence. Leave a gun on the ground and never touch it and it will rust away. The logical thing to do is not touch the gun if your imbalanced.
Yeah...good luck with that. Put everyone on ritalin. Unless your blind, violence has been escalating all over the world...does anyone ever doing anything to try and stop that? Well...we used to at least try...but everyone is so glued to the damn cell phone and blogging and texting they are just to damn busy to be bothered. The world is fast becoming anti-social...at least in this country it is. Turn on the TV and all you see is cell phone ads...little girls screaming because they just got a cell phone for Xmas. Most of what you watch on TV anymore is violence based and we call it entertainment. Our priorities are really screwed up in this country. And some violence you see in this country we make TV shows out of it...does the word gangs ring a bell? What is anyone doing about that? Oh...and it comes on at 8:PM.
No...it's a fact! You can whittle down everything that can be used to kill someone and they will continue to find another way. Granted...the next choice of a weapon may not take out a bunch of people at once...but dead is dead. There is nothing pathological about the desire to own a gun. There are "millions" of law abiding responsible well balanced people in this country that will never ever use a gun to kill another human...unless of course it's to defend themselves. Your use of denial as an excuse is flawed and being used as fear mongering. The need to own a gun for some people is very real...nothing pathological about it.
That all sounds just hunky dory...not very realistic. In the real world there is violence, greed, and people wanting to take your food, water, clothing, and shelter. It may not have happened to you but in the real world it does happen...and it may yet just happen to you...and trust me...harsh language doesn't work.
As far as a gun solving anything...depends on your intentions or what end of it your standing on. Denying the majority of law abiding people the right to own a gun because of a few nut jobs again is fear mongering. And the need to own a gun is growing...maybe not in your perfect world but in the real world it is.
And solutions towards violence are dictated all the time...unfortunately greed is a factor. If people started dictating a more realistic cost of health services maybe something could really be done. Charging people ridiculous amounts of money for just guessing what may or may not be wrong with them is a huge part of the problem. Oh...but we don't want to entertain that thought.
What 'right' exists on God's earth to 'own a gun'?
There is no such right, just as there is no such right to own/drive a car.
There IS a right to defend oneself, but if there were a "right" to own a gun there would be no licencing/permits/whatever.
There is a PRIVILEGE to own a gun, but it is NOT a right.
America still gets itself confused over interpretations of its hopeless 'Constitution' and its rights. Some idiot wrote it all in clear gibberish so everyone can interpret it to their end.
The stupid thing needs to be rewritten in clear English so the modern idiot can be certain of its intent.
It's a sad day when we lose children, they are innocent to the world and have so much promise for the future. It's worst when we lose them to a mindless act, something which shouldn't happened. My thoughts go out to their love ones and to the other children of the school who will need the love and care in the years to come. To the brave teachers who lost their lives looking out for students and to the community as a whole.
Guns will always be a part of America's culture, this will never change, the majority wants to be able to own a gun. So there should be laws and government regulations which enable a person of the community to have ownership of a weapon. It's up to Americans to decide what type of weapons they should have access to.
Should people have access to automatic and semi-automatic weapons which are design to have multiple kills in a small time frame. If so, then the community should be prepared for mass shootings and/or have a better structure in place to deal with it. Gun control is not about taking away guns, it's about what regulations and laws the community thinks should be in place for the protection of the community. Do you think it's working at the moment?
Me and my fellow convicts down here (I think you would find the vast majority are settlers) see guns as a tool. You can get a gun quite easily if you have a purpose for it. Most farmers have a bolt action and a shot gun for pest control. Shooters have semi automatics for their jobs. Hunters are allowed a number of guns for hunting. I can even get a hand gun if I go through training and justify why I want one, yes collecting is fine. So most Australians are happy with our gun law (I think we should have a bigger punishment for unregistered hand guns), but that's us.
I have a bolt action .22 in a gun safe, which I use for rabbit shooting down on my parents farm, have not fired a shot for over three years now ... no rabbits.
Nope. They engender fear. Period. No context needed.
See how conditioned you are? You can't even see how logical it is! Americans produce the most guns and gun iownership in the wordl by HUGE margains above other countries. Especially in private ownership of guns. Why is that? Because we are locked in a cycle of gun-fear-gun-fear.
Yup... like bookmarks, put a saddle on them and ride the. Doesn't work, eh? That's because you're arguing the absurd... They are designed and used to kill. Therefore? No context needed.
Right along with guns. Funny thing. Don't need Ritalin. Just no guns.
So guns are ok? Because anything can be used to kill. FINE! Then you won't miss the guns, will you?
And wrong again. It is realistic because it is true. Can you live without food? Water? Clothing? Shelter? Why do you argue the absurd, endlessly?
Can't convince you of the obvious... you refuse adamantly to see it.
Correct.
Here's more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/15/fashion-calif-mall-shooting/1772539/
or this: http://annistonstar.com/bookmark/21143472-3-people-wounded-at-Brimingham-hospital-gunman-killed-
That's just today. You'd think that people would learn. NO! I want my gun! I wonder what this maniac would shoot if he didn't have a gun? An ice cream cone?
47% of Americans own a gun. Most of those own more than one. What? One isn't enough? NO! The U.N. is going to invade my living room in black helicopters to steal my Internet! The UN wants to steal my guns and put me at the mercy of the international plot to take over America!. Mobs of hunger crazed zombies! Giant amebas! Build a bunker! A bunker and a gun 100 guns in every pot!
So...like how is it all the countries with almost zero private gun ownership and tiny defense budgets manage to survive?
Guns. Yeah. 137,000 gun dealerships. MacDonalds? 37,000. Nothing crazy there.
http://www.mibazaar.com/gunownership.html
Why do 47% (per NRA) of Americans own guns? What the hell is everyone afraid of? Answer - criminals with guns. So... go buy more guns which criminals can steal, and cause more fear to buy more guns. Perfect...if you own a gun factory, the NRA or a cemetery related business.
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Time for something new.
How many times can one explain the obvious?
Guns: The perfect solution to the problem that guns and frightened people create.
The Kraken Wakes ... [btw...there's an 'o' in that up there somewhere]...
Without knowing all the details, that seems perfectly reasonable to me.
I grew up on fifties and sixties westerns and played cowboys and Indians with my two older brothers....I was Annie Oakley...with my derringer....didn't make me a killer... Or violent...or a gun lover... I do worry about the children exposed to the violent video games these days though.... I think for the ones who are disturbed...they are incredibly graphic, desensitising and isolating... And there seems to be more disturbed kids around these days in an era of increased access to drugs...broken families....lack of supervision with both parents working.....alcoholism etc....our problems aren't becoming less...laws need to change with the times....not reflect what the frontier folk needed...
I don't see this thread as political....it's a moral dilemma foremost......if we can't discuss it here...between friends...then what hope does a nation have.
Thanks for the apology wiz...it was a really strange remark, especially coming from you...I just took it as lashing out in a moment of frustration and grief...
You guys really have a huge job ahead of you with your sized population...your ingrained gun culture.....the physical number of guns out there...it's a lot easier out here with our smaller population, we just have to really remain on top of it to make sure we don't end up with humungous probs like you guys have.
Without the human equation guns would be senseless. What would be the point of making a gun if it was just left to rust. WAKE UP!! A gun has one function......to shoot fuckin bullets! It's purpose is to KILL! Nothing more, nothing less.
No, thank you, syd for your understanding. And for your excellent and spot-on post.
Not the strangest remark I have made or will make, to be sure, but I do regret making it.
a·me·ba or amoeba (-mb)
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/558/classroomguns.jpg
Right...privilege...call it what you may...or interpret it whichever way you want. What word one chooses to describe their ownership of gun doesn't really matter. The fact remains that there are people in this world that don't care what word you use to describe how someone came about owning a gun except in a discussion like this, and the ones committing the crimes don't really care about a constitution, all they care about is what you have and how they can make it theirs, and those same people would more than likely agree with everyone advocating guns being destroyed...would certainly make their chosen criminal field much easier. And the unstable ones I'm sure have all kinds of insane reasons to use a gun.
I would like nothing more than to see no need whatsoever to own a gun and all guns purged from the world, but it isn't going to happen as long as violent people and corrupt governments exist.
Well apparently they do for you.
Who's conditioned? I didn't grow up in an environment being conditioned as most people did. I was lucky enough to grow up making my own decisions coming to my own conclusions and outlooks on life and the world around me. Please don't lump me in with everyone else. And again there are literally millions of private gun owners that will never ever use a gun to kill a human being. But because you have this fear of an inanimate object they should give them up? Your fear is misplaced.
Ok...I have this fear of being run over by a car or being stabbed with a knife...and this country has more cars and knives than anyone else in the world...when do we start getting rid of them? Or telling people you can only have one of each? When does it stop before we start looking at the real problem?
Now your just being silly...bookmarks...saddles...really? Who's being absurd? And yes gun are created for killing...continuing to state the obvious doesn't help your cause. Kinda of hard to hunt using harsh language or throwing stick or stones. Humans took a useful tool and turned it into a killing humans machine. Again...human factor.
Ok...just keep ignoring the fact that humans are resourceful and won't find another way to kill someone if that works for you.
Pointless.
lol....doc doc doc You talk about me being absurd and adamant. Let me put it another way...Huh!?
And here's more! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year I want my car!
And more! http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm
And more! http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Causes_of_Death
I can do that as well...but what's the point?
And how many forks and knives do you own? You only need one!
The rest of that above is just plain silly! Giant amoebas!?
Macdonalds!? Really? Talk about absurd! Break out the tinfoil hats!
Again with the fear mongering. Just because you obviously live in fear, most people are pretty sensible about gun ownership and don't live in fear.
If you can ever get over this fear you have only then can you see why someone would own a gun or more than one. Believe it or not there are a lot of people that are very responsible, level headed, that understand perfectly well what a gun can do...but they don't think the way a criminal does nor do they live in fear. Your the one who keeps throwing the fear factor around like everyone thinks we're being invaded or there's some sort of conspiracy going on at MacDonalds.
And criminal steals guns from people that don't take responsibility in regards to gun ownership by not securing their guns. They sell guns in this country like it was toys are us. The problem is that they completely dropped the ball when it came to selling some smuck a gun...assuming they were responsible. The one thing I will agree with adamantly is that not everyone should own a gun. Most people are completely irresponsible when it comes to owning a gun...in fact most people that own a gun never even fired a gun...they probably can't even load one.
The fact is...humans are far more dangerous than guns.
Correct...unfortunately it exist and there's no denying it.
Hopefully having a gun that was just left to rust would be a signal that we have become better humans and had no need for it...the next step would then be not making them anymore.
There your just stating the obvious.
Wow!
None so blind as those who refuse to see. Pointless to discuss it any further. Futility max level achieved.
Keep your "purely defensive" guns, missiles, tanks, submarines and nukes.
Just beam me the hell out of here.
Please.
Ditto
^ Great. There goes the neighborhood.
It's a simple resolve to this issue really, anyone who uses or owns a gun illegally, sells a gun illegally, or allows access to their guns to others by not securing them properly... just take them out in a public square, hang them upside down by their feet, and sever their heads, then just leave them there for all to see! After a while people will start to think twice about owning, or improperly using/securing a gun. This include parents who leave their guns around and their little 5 year old dies playing with it, even police or military who leave their weapons lying around, doesn't matter! If you own a gun you are responsible for it, period! Do what's right damnit! I am tired of reading about stupid and so called mentally unstable people who use guns like this! High school kids planning and/or performing attacks, a little kid bringing his fathers loaded gun to school for show and tell, another little kid having one in his backpack, he drops it and it goes off and hits a little girl, a kid at home discharges his fathers gun and the father is a cop ... every single day it's something else!
I am trying to make a point here, so don't think I mean the part about severing their heads and leaving them there literally, it was said to stress a point. There has to be drastic consequences!
It's not that I am against gun ownership, I am against idiots and the problem is that lots of people fall into that category, and we as a society allow this idiocy to continue with what seem to be minimal consequences.
When will it all end?
My "new" self would not generally respond to a thread such as this, but then again this thread shouldn't have been posted in the first place. Clearly shows a lack of leadership at the WC forum site to allow threads to be posted that are guaranteed to illicit arguments on sensitive issues.
This tragedy is un-comprehensible for me. Killing one child that age is unimaginable, killing 20 is off the chart.
You're not going to solve any issues here with any comments but it does provide an opportunity for some to make asinine statements.
Our constitution is not out of date, it is a living document that has had its interpretation broadened over time to better meet today's needs. It just amazes me how perceptive our forefathers were.
Australians and the US have much in common. We both originated from the same stock but left jolly old England under different circumstances. We are kindred spirits and allies.
There is really no reason for anyone to own an AK-47, a glock with a 30 round clip or an Uzi unless your part of a state militia (I believe it is okay for Israelis subject to call up to have an Uzi at home).
Gun ownership is a bi-partisan affair. Providing for mental issues is not.
Proposing the same solution every time when an horrific incident such as this occurs, which produces the same result (nothing) is by definition insane. War on drugs, same thing.
Oh, and never, never take a bat to a gun fight.
https://forums.wincustomize.com/438228/page/4/#3295221
On yet another note...they seem to be coming out of the woodwork now.
Ind. man with 47 guns arrested after school threat
http://news.msn.com/us/ind-man-with-47-guns-arrested-after-school-threat?gt1=51501
[quote who="RedneckDude" reply="123" id="3295494"[/quote]
As observed from Mt. Sheepmolester, TN.
Wish I could say I was surprised, Steve... but I'm not.
47 guns and ammo worth $100,000. Need to be sold, 1/2 given to the wife, the rest for mandatory mental health treatment for him. Betting he'll use it all.
OK. I'll relent. You can beam out too.
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