mobs can't hit me.
Maybe the to hit chance floor should be 10% rather than 3% for everyone... That would go someway towards counter balancing the dodge stack strategy?
https://forums.elementalgame.com/438139
Go down and look at "accuracy" under "Path of Assassin"They do have a trait that boosts accuracy, that said I do agree it is not even worthwhile remembering, since it grants the same bonuses as leadership except it only grants it to the assassin, instead of the whole army.
Just wanted to barge in and point this useless bit out
Sincerely~ Kongdej
I am not sure that that's a good idea.
The issues, I see, for dodge stacking include:
If the AI issues are addressed, dodge could flip from being strategically good to being strategically bad. But I think that the goal should be to have it be strategically valid, but not always valid.
Anyways, currently the two weaknesses of dodge stacking are magic (but armor is also vulnerable to magic) and accuracy (which has a minor use outside of dodge stacking -- if you can get +25 accuracy you'll have a 33% damage increase against non-dodge troops and the benefit increases against moderate dodge troops and there's a threshold effect against high dodge troops), and the AI is just awful about deploying accuracy and magic. So, dodge stacking is currently overpowered.
Lucky makes this situation worse but ironically also includes accuracy.
But if you have troops that can't be hit because of dodge, I do not think that it should automatically be the case that everything can hit them in a prolonged battle. I think it should be OK to be strong against some opponents. For dodge to be a viable strategy, I think that there should be some tradeoff in picking its counters. And, perhaps ironically, lucky is one of its counters.
Lucky actually isn't so bad by itself, it only becomes a problem when you get to 80+ dodge (that's the only time that it would rival wraith's blood). By then it's already too late. I fear you're just looking for something to blame when the real problem is staring you in the face.
Is there a reason you entirely ignored my commentary on accuracy and magic?
I'm not sure what you expect me to say? If you want the AI to devote all their time to working on accuracy, all that will happen is that the player will ignore dodge (because it becomes meaningless). If you want them to dynamically assess such need, then it becomes a preparatory problem, where they don't have enough time to react and field a counter (by the time the threat arrives, it'll often be too late). This, of course, completely ignores the fact that the AI is incapable of recognizing such weaknesses in the first place. Also, the problem is not just with the AI, but that you can use dodge to clear powerful monsters and gain a massive advantage.
As for magic, the AI haven't shown any capacity for setting up a mana economy that would allow them to keep casting magic for extended periods. So they might get a few spells off, then they fizzle out. Also remember, they aren't deploying mages stacked with damage bonsuses, so the damage of their spells can often be completely ignored.
You're talking about drastic upgrades on things that could be fixed much more easily by reducing some dodge numbers.
If the AI begins taking way of the warrior, and way of the mage, I would expect that we would see accuracy contributions from some champions, and perhaps deeper spell use from other champions.
Meanwhile, some accuracy is available in troop traits, so we should expect them to show up in rushed troops if the AI notices or anticipates serious problems from dodgers. But, yes, the AI would need to be able to assess army strengths and weaknesses.
That said, I have seen the AI ramping up to get 40 mana per turn from a single town with a couple essences and shards. This was on insane, and was perhaps an overspecialization on refined arcana but it's not like building mana is outside the realm of possibility for the AI.
Also, there are many kinds of spells, and some can be effective enough without damage bonuses.
Anyways, the AI needs to be fixed -- if all that happens is the dodge numbers get changed the AI will still be crippled in other respects (like: magic). I suppose we could cripple magic, also, to keep from having to fix the AI?
I never said that, I just said that magic isn't a real solution to dodge stacking, nor is expecting accuracy trait on troops to be some magical fix.
By the time the AI can get 40 mana per turn, the game would be in its final stages... dodge troops would have wiped the floor with them before that ever happen. The same is true for troop design (nevermind that the AI can't design its own units). If you expect them to suddenly rush a defense once an army arrives at their doorstep, I think you're playing a completely different game than I am. I've NEVER seen any type of secondary effort that is truly worth fighting, once you crush their standing army, you just roll over them if you don't just demand surrender. The only way to prevent a complete wipe is to ALWAYS have very high accuracy, which would then cripple them in other ways (you only have so many trait slots afterall).
You're also expecting them to level their heroes correctly and picking spell paths and traits to complement a strategy. None of those are in the realm of possibility at the moment, and to do so would require a pretty hefty overhaul of the current mechanics (which I'm not against either, but I don't foresee happening anytime soon).
All of this, for what? so that you don't have to tweak some numbers?
You do not need 40 magic per turn to be able to use magic against dodge troops. 40 mana per army might even be sufficient, though the details can vary depending on the army and on the map and a few other things and 100-200 mana per army is a plausible range for a empire with only minor specializations in magic. Anyways, I'll go off and play a default game using resoln's magic and a warlock so I can do a better job of mentally translating into default turns the things which I have observed.
That said, I agree that the AI should be able to design units to counter threats, and it ought to be able to anticipate threats based on scouting reports.
Edit: I've played about 80-ish turns playing Oracle Ceresa (until the game crashed) on 1.12. I am on a medium map with everything set to default/balanced/normal, and I am averaging about 1 death shard every 10 turns and I have three uses of wither available to me on a 3 turn cooldown (so I can cast it every turn, or I can use three instances in one turn in an emergency, and then wait a few before I can use it again). I am not yet ready to take on strong monsters or high level champions but if things go like I expect, I doubt they will pose me any significant problems. Anyways, right now, I could fight an army unit with 7 members each doing 10 damage (so 70 damage in total) and take no damage from members of that stack if nothing has a stronger attack -- it does not matter what I am fighting with, I can reduce that army's damage capability to zero. That said, in this version, elemental damage (for example, the fire component of the melee damage from fire shrills - but that is new and I have not seen any armies with elemental damage, yet) does not get reduced by wither, so I am not completely invulnerable. Also note that I have not harvested any crystal yet, nor have I done any military research yet, and I am not sure if I will bother to do so.
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