I don't know if it is just me but I seem to notice that the AI tends to trade tech knowledge amongst itself quite a lot, insane amounts in fact... to the point where they can out tech you with barely having any tech buildings. This phenomenon is probably directly correlated to how many AI players are in the game, because more trading of points can occur.
I generally like to play in games with many AI players, typically 12-20 AI players. It seems to me like the AI likes to trade tech amongst itself quite a bit, this isn't a problem in itself, but at the rate that it is occurring right now I feel that this is an issue that has to be addressed because it kills the pacing of the game. I set the technology pacing on epic, but even by turn 100 or so nearly every single one of the AI has maxed out all of the trees while I am barely though the first quarter of some of the trees. I even built two conclaves as starting towns and it is still not possilble to keep up with the pace of their teching, solely because of the way they trade tech points, probably at a one to one ratio which you will not get unless the AI asks you. I can tell they don't have a lot of research because when I do research treaties with them I can see that I am getting far more research than they are out of the treaties. Even the crummiest little nations with barely 2-3 cities in comparison to the about 15 I have, have maxed out their trees.
The way that the tech points are set up right now basically self perpetuates the game very quickly to the end game. The AI basically trades for enough tech points to learn a tech, then gains that tech and the some tech points, then trades those points away to gain more tech... and around and around without barely having any research.
There needs to be some kind of limit on this spontaneous intelligence generation. Maybe, the game should keep track of how much of a tech you actually researched yourself and award you tech points accordingly. Say if you researched a tech 50% of it yourself then you would only be awarded 50% of the tech points. That way the amount of tech points in circulation would be less, and this would help to curve the amount of tech generation, while also giving technology friendly nations a greater advantage.
It is not normal, it is the bug everyone is discussing in this thread...he was joking with you...
Seems different to me, people were talking about ai giving away "knowledge" points to each other and ending up with more points then giving away, but on my screen i see that ai is generating huge amount of research points somehow. Maybe they make multiple research agreements with each other? Or research agreement calculation for ai is wrong?
Just checked, points are not coming from research treaties, i made ai terminate all tech treaties he had and no point drop was observed. I noticed however, that his research point grow at constant rate every turn, he gets +10 every turn, so i guess his research rate "pile up" like gold does instead of dropping to 0 every turn like players research points do?
No one is quite sure what is causing the bug, but the way the AI is getting 1,000 or 20,000 knowledge is still the same issue.
I believe research point and knowledge points are different, though high amount of research points would certainly cause high amount of knowledge points. Just thinking that the original cause of problem may be invalid research calculation, and not knowledge sharing.
I also have a lot of problems with this. Just starting research on something like 'drills' and the AI sends a message gloating about how it just finished researching refined diplomacy or some crap like that.
I play modded huge maps, on a modded epically epic game pace. With 8-10 AI trading that 10% amongst eachother, they should reasonable have around 200% of normal tech rate. But they end up having 5, 10, or even crazy 25x as much tech as is sensible.
I think the problem is that when giving tech away, you don't actually lose the points from your trading pool, you just lose them when trading with that same faction. So the AI all trade their 100 tech points with eachother, and then somehow trade those same 100 tech points to most of the other AI, and then again and again. So their tech rate starts looking like a freaking exponential function. It may also have something to do with the modified tech rate on epic paced games.
It would be totally crippling if the AI knew how to handle player constructed armies.
Frogboy, has this been addressed? Will it be?
I'm having this issue, too.
Particularly on Large Map, Epic Pacing, Expert Difficulty.
Mediocre-to-weak rulers have a research of ~2000 by the 90th turn, 4 settlements.
Makes me wonder, does "Epic" pacing only affect the human player?
Good to see I'm not the only one with this issue.The problem is NOT with advanced units... Namely as while the computer may cheat tech they frequently have trouble having sufficient iron/crystals to produce said units.
It's the material/grain/research/gildar bonuses they get repetitively at the end of the tech trees, and later the damage/defense/accuracy bonuses. It really breaks epic games.
Some additional screens: http://imgur.com/v3vfHGz,tb9NVJz,NUWZna5,UEaa8S0,ejodRTu,pgNI658#0
I find it more than a little sad that there is not more conversation about this. Its odd that I can devote my entire faction to research, have over 15 cities, and still be outpaced in techology by an AI opponent that has had 2 cities all game. +150 research a turn and my faction has what is likely less than 1/10th the technology of even the most pathetic factions.
This is JUST before it started to get ridiculous. Around ten turns later some factions started increasing by 20-50 power in individual seasons. When you have a production of +150 in all cities and an endless supply of Gildar it's little wonder how they can achieve this.
I'm hoping the XML change fixes this... It's truly ridiculous. I've been wracking my brain trying to discern how the CPU brag about techs like Refined Agriculture on by turn ~70-90 with only 2-4 cities and non-optimized research cities.
Ya it's kind of shocking this wasn't hotfixed weeks ago. This is a game breaking bug and I don't see how anyone can stand to play without modding in their own fix (reply #22 and #23, it works). Players shouldn't be forced to use mods to make a game playable for over a month, a 1.13 patch should have been out the day this was reported with any number of quick one line temporary fixes to the issue.
I certainly hope so, I had already modified the value to zero before even posting.
I've spent the last few days trying to make a massive epic games work and every single time around turn 100 the exponential tech growth of the factions would hit like a hammer. Even if I did play the game all the way through the pacing was hectic. Heaven forbid if I wasted a turn or settled on a tile without an essence for the inspiration spell. Defeats the entire premise of what I was trying to achieve...
If the XML change does work (haven't started a new game yet, burned out from my last game...) my only worry is that I am so used to competing with these exponentially growing factions that the easier difficulties are ruined for me. Considering starting on Insane or Ridiculous for that very reason, or putting a self limitation like 4-5 cities maximum until turn 100 has passed.
Brad posted this:
"Fixed bug where AI knowledge trading didn't always reduce tradeable knowledge"
About 1.2 here:
https://forums.elementalgame.com/439150
So i'd say hopefully that the fix above, and maybe reducing the KnowledgeFromResearchPercentage to .1 as it sounds like it should be, will resolve this issue.
No, 10 is correct. If you set it to .1 you might as well be setting it to 0, which is the quick and easy way to deal with it now, turning it off.
OK cool fair enough.
Oh well hopefully they had a good look at it and have sorted it out, they obviously did something as stated in the pre-release notes. Lets just hope it's resolved.
It's reassuring that this is (or has already?) been looked into. Thanks for pointing this out to me, I haven't read the 1.20 changes until now.
The suspicion that knowledge trading wasn't reducing is the primary reason I set it to 0 actually. While x10 explains part of the bloated numbers, it doesn't explain the excessive accumulation.
By turn 100 it seems like that AI was researching end-tree techs on a seasonal basis. There is no other way that they could have accumulated the +10% research tech (and others like it!!!) over 20 times by the time of my images.
This issue seems to have been addressed in patch 1.2. Thanks for your efforts Stardock.
Very nice! This was my only complaint.
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