Is it because of frustration over forever-unresolved core balance issues?
Is it because ultimately sins is an indi game and rebellion will join the other sins titles in abandonment?
discuss
I'd bet it's only 2 or 3 at any one time and 14-20 total.
Blame the MP community 100%, but don't look at the game itself for more than a few seconds. People might just be turned off by the Titan Arena the game's become.
"New blood" will always be an illusive carrot on the stick, but at what cost to the "community" as a whole? Rebellion as the OP suggests has issues, but not unlike any effort that is essentially a progressive pursuit of perfection. We don't need histrionics here, what we need is veteran players that embrace new players with tolerance, patience and a certain je ne sais quoi in nurturing them towards the accepted societal standards adopted by the aforementioned "community". 93.4% of virtually all "issues", of every every kind, could be remedied via expressed adherence to these standards. I would much rather participate with the dysfunctional contingent as-is currently to get what I need out of SoSE Rebellion, than put in the effort of subscribing to a higher ideal of player-base ethics. Those of us that abide in the MP community do so with all it's faults and blemishes because it's a labor of love for us. We pretty much know all of the ugly sides of the game, but we love it nonetheless. There is no thing like it. HOWEVER, to share this love of the game, and that's really what this is all about, a bare minimum assent of essential edicts must be made resolute.
Because...
There's a troll under every bridge - the only way past is to not let them get in your head. I contend that Trollism is the single most corrosive thread in our midst. Setting an example of Zero Troll Tolerance will go a long way towards not letting new players succumb to, or indeed become one. Because, remember: trolling for trolling sakes is a way of life. You can do it in your sleep (it comes so natural to some). You see it in MP games, on the boards, you can see it at the grocery store for that matter, but beyond cohering around sound principles and fostering an attitude of inclusion, the SoSE "aging in place" will continue to be fraught with counterproductive experiences, replete with angstful gnashing of teeth. We must all be emissaries against Trollism in the campaign to maintain, and retain.
In closing...
SoSE does require dedication to play and enjoy - "...jumping in and having fun." I'm afraid is never going to be one of the defining characteristics of the game. Alas, such is the lament of those that want something worthwhile - it comes at a price, but it's really not that complicated - it's quite simple really. You want to enjoy something you're apt to pursue, you have to take a part in it, (if that's what you want to "jump into"). Critical thinking in the input/feedback sense is crucial to furthering SoSE, but being a bystander, no matter your area of interest, be it in SP, MP, Modding, or even trolling - ridicule and complaints bears no merit.
Standards; Promote and Publicize, Embrace and Enforce.
From an online multiplayer perspective, this game was never really alive to begin with--and that dates back all the way to 2008 when the original game was released. Has it ever even cracked having more than 400 people online at once? Would it be possible to count the number of times it's been over 350 or 300 on one hand? Those numbers might seem like "a lot", but I think you need to consistently have over 1000 people online during prime time for a game to be truly "alive".
Do you have any sense of the specific sales numbers? I'm not convinced that it did that well--at least not in terms of sales volume. Perhaps it was very profitable, but that doesn't mean it sold real well. Are most gamers even aware that the game exists?
Entrenchment/Diplomacy >>> Rebellion IMHO.
I think the majority would disagree.
While you may contend that the fault lies not in our stars, but in ourselves, I would disagree. You have to build the rules into the game or the launcher, because you can't expect new players to know about them, much less read your convoluted post. Sins is by design a game that you CAN play online, but isn't very accessible to just jump into multiplayer and enjoy. This trend has become more pronounced as the game has gotten more complicated and more imbalanced over time.
I don't disagree but in the absence of changes to MP features/design, stickied posts like his are better than nothing and are at least a player based initiative that may reach some new players. Aside from this, what other options are there? I can only think of yours: not playing at all.
Personally speaking I think MP is the best place to figure out balance issues/tweaks. I know that much of what I did with the total conversion mod SoGE was spawned by having MP matches with my friends; with human players that use every race's potential to their advantage, you get to really see what's right and wrong with them, as the AI will never go to extremes, it just is not capable of doing so. Humans however, are and will, if they see an opportunity and can think of the strategic and tactical benefits of going a given route.
The convoluted post was the one in this thread, not a stickied post. It was a huge mess of a post that basically said, "be nice to new players" and "lets all have agreed upon rules" which I suppose is referring to the stickied post that actually says something?
I don't play much for several reasons, and a lot of it is due to design reasons. The game is just not that satisfying for time spent. Sins is great for single player and for playing mods, but multiplayer can be a chore where many games are pretty unsatisfying. I played several times this week and had a few good games, but I also experienced a minidump, people who entrenched and then quit after forcing me to build up for 20-30 minutes, as well as a few people who afk'd rather than surrender after losing their fleet. I'm aware of these problems and I still play now and then because I like Sins. I'm just explaining that Sins does not create an environment where most casual players find multiplayer enjoyable. It is the nature of the beast. Very good when played with friends, not so good for casual jump in entertainment.I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here. Sins is a great game, but not for casual multiplay, which is WHY the the online community is so small and you only find 10-20 people online during off-peak hours.
Let's be realistic here, Rebellion is a nice update to a great game, but balanced or not, we're talking about a game that is still largely the same game that people have been playing for years, and a few new units and techs aren't going to hold the same sort of fresh appeal as a new game. Combine that with the fact that the game was never hugely popular in the online scene to begin with, and this shouldn't be too surprising.
After perhaps the first month, Rebellion is what Sins has been for years, a great game that I pull out every couple months for a game or two, and sometimes if I've got some friends over for a LAN game.
Just to comment to DirtySanchez, for what's worth, when Rebellion was officially released, there are over 1000 players on line for a few days.
In comment to the general theme of this thread: how to bring in new players. In my opinion, there are two types of new players.
Case #1: Dialogue:
VeteranPlayer: you didn't have a great game. You want some tips on how to improve?
New Player: sure, that'd be great.
This is the type of new player we want.
Case #2: Dialogue:
New Player: stfu, i am better than you, go jump off a cliff and die, and i'll give YOU tips.
Amazingly, more than half, perhaps 3 out of 4, new players have this attitude. How can such players be welcome to a team game? They react negatively to any advice and ruin the game of 5v5.
So, it's true the MP community should be more welcoming of new players. But new players have their part, too, which should mostly be just to have a good attitude about playing better and playing with a team.
I always tried to help new players when I had them on my team, also explained how they could do better in certain areas when the game had ended, if they were willing to hear it. It is true though, that there are many players online that act like spoiled little children who think they rule the world and act like bitches to newcomers. Needless to say this puts people off.
What about this situation?
Case #1: (before game)
New Player: "Hey guys, this is my first game, so if you have any tips before we start, give em to me. (enthusiastic)
VeterenPlayer: *Silence*
Game done in 10 minutes.
New Player: Wow, your pretty good, got any tips?
Veteren Player: *silence* Quits chat
That was my second game online.
My first was better, because I had helpful allies and opponents. This is the desired Veteren Player.
I am not saying you are wrong about some new players acting like that, but you can't ignore what some Veteren players can be like.
I sense much pulling of numbers out of the butts.
There was a time where I was "looked down upon" and was the fatkid/noob amongst skilled players...now, I am skilled (though not always consistent)...having been on both sides for long periods of time, I have mixed feelings about the relationship....
Yes, it is shitty for new players...many skilled players get pissy at them, bitch at them, etc etc...and that's assuming they even allow them to play...
But, from the skilled players perspective, noobs really do ruin games...they are complete wildcards, they throw off team balance, and they often ragequit when they shouldn't...
Yes, the noobs just want to have fun...but guess what, so do the pro players....
Seriously, many of the pros just want good games...it isn't about WIN WIN WIN...it's about trying to win in a good game with balanced teams...it's not very fun to work your ass off fighting other skilled players only to lose in the end cause of a noob not knowing what they are doing...
Back around the v1.2 diplomacy updates (when I really started playing ICO heavily), I most certainly did not enjoy being the fat kid, "Auqia's speedbump", "that modder" that's allowed in the skilled game solely because the pros want to troll him....I got trash talked, talked down to, told I was shitty...but, I'm still here...
It's not always the most friendly community, but you know what, the hostility isn't the only issue...game length, time to set up games, rampant MDs/DCs, balance issues (that prevent people from playing a whole race) all contribute....honestly I'd rather have the other issues fixed...
Pulling numbers out of the nether region inbetween the buttocks is a sacred tradition, much honored by politicians. Seriously though, this idea of establishing social standards for MP is a step in the right direction.
-Lord Brony
LupusVir's point above is exactly the issue (I think).
True, an "all fast setting 5v5 game is over really fast"...because the players who are in in it for the first or second time get wiped like tissue paper by the twelve guys who have played obsessively for 12 hours a day for the last five years.
Then they go to the forum for help or tutorials and see complaining and trolling and noob insults and probably just go, "meh" and play it solo from then on.
For the players with the time to be active in MP regularly, real effort should be made to welcome and help train new players.
The forums would be a great place to set the stage for this except the forum base has its own "games" going and isn't often that helpful.
Sins is a perfect game for MP (I know--balance balance) but it is a great game and nicely "smart" to play.
Just needs support regarding starting play and modding. Anything that would make those things easier will make it more popular.
I meant online at one single time. I don't think I've ever seen a player count higher than 350. Maybe Rebellion broke 400 at some point, perhaps during the Beta. I'd be truly amazed if it ever surpassed 1000 people online at once.
when rebelion was released Ico hit 500+ peps
As the OP stated.
The lack of dev posts and balancing in this game killed it for me as for the group i am in. (10 people) We all were in for the multiplayer but sadly the devs did not act on big treads about balance. They also stated that the majority plays singleplayer game and thus have to fit there balance needs! This forum is dying as will this game.
I have never played online, and I heard that the attitude towards new players is terrible, however I always see nice and helpful replies to posts in the forum. At least in threads where new players ask for help
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