This would certainly do the job, but honestly I think tying starbase jumping to a non-combat starbase upgrade(such as rank 2 of the phase stabilizer upgrade) is better as it allows for traditional full potency non-jumping starbases.

A global starbase nerf on researching the tech would essentially forfeit your ability to make traditional defensive starbases effectively.  

By contrast tying the effect into a starbase upgrade means you can have both traditional defensive starbases and weaker but jump capable offensive starbases.  A tech IMO should never take options away- just add them.

Everyone complains about jumping starbases, but a basic starbase is easily killed, not saying a fully leveled one is not. But as most have seen the Advents bombs take out whole fleets at a time and is a game changer, and a moving starbase can only destroy what is on a planet. So the same can go as far to stay stipped is op for the moment but if you can hold out and keep a strong eco you can over come stripped all day long. But keeping VR banned is not the solution. I would say that giving a limted number of jumps per starbase would help or limit the number of starbases you can make based on capitol ship slots is another solution that would be more then fair.

Problem is it effects all sb so it makes it double edged sword. PJ on sb should really be vasari rebel replacement for population slots with nerfs associated to it and costing some amount of fleet supply.

Don't see any other solution to balance 

Just had a game, Vasari Rebels are too Overpowered. Its like having a fully upgraded titan in early-mid game, and nothing to counter a fleet, a titan and a starbase from Vasari Rebels with. Maybe by having a way in which a titan and starbase in the same and the opponets gravity field, one switches off. Or something.

Still Banned I think for now.

Yeah, but that Vasari player still has to have a fleet capable of fighting and he's vulnerable in the area where he jumped from.  It's not the same as being able to do a red button over multiple gravity wells, destroying entire fleets.

Bye buddy. I agree with you 100%.

I said i was waiting till 1.04, then if that sucks im uninstalling.... Just done it.

Look at the "Sins of a Solar Empire Makes IGN’s 25 Top PC Games". That was the origional, not Rebellion. Rebellion is still completely unbalanced and revolves around Titans too much. it's very rare that the original of a game is cosisdered better than the sequel but that is exactly what has happened. The original was a beautiful game, similar to chess that was ageless. The current game is like chess with a Queen that never dies.

I stand by my previous views on Rebellion. STOP TITANS KEEPING THEIR LEVELS! STOP STARBASES FROM JUMPING!!!! The devs need to admit that they made a mistake and at least put an option in to turn off these two options. That way they can save a bit of face by still supporting their previous views and pandering to everyone else.

A brilliant idea.

Keeping in check with lore couldn't they just set it up so the star base has to draw on power from the shields to make the jump maybe leaving it 50% or even 25% shields on arrival this would make it ez to nuke(well not ez but it would def be better then just the simple 60 sec dmg reduc), atm they only viable defense I've found is 200 bombers sitting as far as way as possible. Could even do a 20% sheild drain per jump slowing down the unstoppable rush that these can inflict.

FOR WAIL OF THE SACRIFICED DISCUSSION - GO HERE: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/428672

The problem is, that by giving it fleet supply you just move the balancing factor to another area. (How much fleet supply is right.... 200... 300.... 400....?)

There is another issue. It can be abused.

Build 10 starbases at your 10 planets

Research Starbase Mobilisation

Result: Fleet supply deep in red.... but who cares about that now as you have 10 jumping starbases?

Now if you give Vasari Rebel starbase a general fleet supply consumption.... that does considerable weaken their defense.

Agreed, the main trouble with the jumping Orky is not the firepower it has, but its extremely durability. Combined with enough sublight speed that a starbase sent directy to your capital planet has an excellent chance to get there and do considerable damage until your pursuit fleet catches up.

I do not agree about Wail however. It is one of the few powerful things Advent can have. For the discussion, look here.

That shouldnt be so much the issue anymore with all the recent good changes to strip.

I do totally agree!


Quoting Brazilian_Joe, reply 13Still think jumping SB should have -10%/-20% permanent damage AND ARMOR reduction (must be lighter to be able to jump). That'll make it more manageable (easier one notch below next-to-impossible to kill).

That would just encourage people to jump a starbase in, take the gravity well, then scuttle it and build a new one. Granted that would probably work, but that seems a bit silly of a solution to me.


Quoting Brazilian_Joe, reply 13Also jumping SB should not be a magic across-the board tech i.e. once you research, every starbase has it.

To me, this is a minimum. I don't know if its sufficient, but until this change is made I think Starbase Mobilization will be OP. After that it might be possible to balance.[/quote]

Agreed.

QFT

But I have to ask.... does it really work against phase stabilisation? Meaning that after a Kostura hit I can actually wail the remote place it originated from?

To keep this topic clean, I suggest you post here: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/428672

Not, it is not. It is even better. Late game Vasari ability to be anywhere on the map in no time and to be back in no time to defend too is unrivaled powerful. A skilled Vasari will always attack your weakest front... ravaging your planets while your fleet is lightyears away.... and when your fleet finally arrives it is not only to late but he can just run away....

Sounds like a good idea in addition to more of the other balance changes suggested.

Semaz, you're a smart guy and a good modder, with an emphasis on the latter. Let me take this opportunity to say you're acting like a fucking retard if you aren't looking at the sheer amount of potential that the mere existence of the Titan entity presents to us. Sure I'm being an arrogant son of a bitch right now, but I dare say I can back this up, or at the least explain it.

Though before I do that, let me present the limitations of the Titan system Stardock made, and how they are both one of the stupidest things ever done, but also one of the easiest to bypass, AI included. This also contains a lot of language suitable for sailors because I feel like it and I'm going to have fun with this

You can only build one Titan, and it regains XP on death. This is stupid as you can farm the fuck out of everything and makes this game Sins of the Titans. But everyone knows vanilla Sins is pretty fucking lame, I personally give zero shits about vanilla Sins and bought this game because it has a damn good engine that can be screwed with to great lengths. I haven't played vanilla Sins, at all, for over a year and a half. The closest I've gotten to it within that time period is Maelstrom, and that's as gold as the fictionally golden streets of America in immigrant folk tales. Now back to the meat, you can bypass both of these idiocies by making them spawnable via an autocasting ability. on a Titan Factory. This is important as the Titan Factory will tell the AI the prices of Titans, making them save up for the ships. Further, you only let the AI research the ability to traditionally build Titans, with an off-grid tech. Now the key is, this off-grid tech has the pre-requiste of the research tech that unlocks the autocasting Titan ability. This is key as once the AI has enough to build the Titan normally, the ability will fire off before it can "build" the Titan. Further, the ability can be made up such that it will immediately spawn a placeholder Titan, to keep the supply cost locked and to keep the AI from building a Titan. The real Titan is spawned once the spawning buff's time period elapses, and the placeholder Titan is killed at the same moment, via a passive OnDeath OnBuffFinish wiith a TimeElapsed finishCondition. This isn't all. As the ability is set to autocast, it will keep firing off until the AI reaches the desired number of Titans. Oh did I forget to mention that you can choose to limit the number of total Titans a player can build if you so desire? Well you can, setting it to any damn number is easy as balls, even with it's limitations. Now on a per planet basis, each planet's factory can easily spawn up to four Titans. I personally have limits of one, two, and four already in, for various Titan variants. And if you want more than that, you can do one of two things. One is get the genius who made this system work, GoaFan, to help modify the buff chains to allow for more per planet. The second, and more interesting methods, is to put factories on more planets. This can be done in a number of ways, one is to make custom maps, random or premade, that have the player start with multiple colonized planets at the start of the game, they can be shitty no slot no pop 'roids for all you care, or even make certain planets, such as Shipyards, spawn with capturable Titan Factories (similar to mines, ship graveyards, etc). As I recall you can make it so all the factories (multiple to ensure every faction is covered) are simply owned by the planet owner. Hell I'd be more than happy to give you all the shit I've done so far for you to use in 7DS. In fact I'd love to see this used more because it is motherfucking brilliant.

I think it's rather obvious how this can change the Zeus-damned game, you can make a whole mode, technically map(s), where the Shipyards are the whole fucking game, and not only that, you can make some cheaper than others, some take less build time, and so on. This is a new paragraph as it's starting to talk about the reasons why Titans are the fucking best thing since star bases. There's the obvious Titans can make a whole game mode onto themselves which Stardock and Ironclad probably never thought of because they care about things like diplomacy, which has an expansion of the same name which is in truth the worst Sins expansion ever. The only reason Diplomacy was worth a cent was because they fixed bugs that they should've already done, that shouldn't already exist, and because months after they fucking released the thing they finally listened to Major Stress and the TSOP team who have been offering to clean the laundry for years only to be ignored for absolutely no Zeus-damned reason. Now where was I? Oh right, Titans. They are their own entity. I'm repetitive as this means you can make whole abilities crafted around them, or against them, versus lumping them with capital ships. This seems absolutely meaningless at first, but this has implications that you obviously haven't thought of.

Now what the fuck does this even mean? Right now Sins has this fancy thing called "cruisers", which are supposedly something different or notably distinct. That's a fucking load of bullshit, they're just beefy frigates. Frigates are shit tier as they have limitations like they get no fucking battle experience, and most annoying to me, you put a planet bombing stat on them and they rush to a planet like a bunch of drunk pigs on an automated conveyer belt heading to their fucking deaths. Whomever did this should be slapped across the fucking face as they didn't tie it to the existing Siege frigateRoleType which is supposed to govern automatic behaviors and auto-attack but clearly doesn't. Plus it's dumb as capital ships don't have this fucking limitation, they fucking work right. This is relevant as you can make "heavy cruisers" out of specially made capital ships. Make them have less benefits from leveling, and fixedlevel0 abilities, and suddenly you have fucking cruisers that can bomb planets and gain battle experience. And I'm not fucking done yet, using the various statCountTypes, assuming you don't have too many fucking ships, but that's impossible as you have a limit of 9, you can guide the AI into effectively building capital ships. It fucking loves CapitalShipCarrier and CapitalShipBattleship, in that order. Give those, exclusively, to the two "Capital Ships" you want the AI to build the most of and it fucking will. Then give CapitalShipUtility0 and CapitalShipUtility1 to two other capital ships you want the AI to build in decent numbers, and CapitalShipUtility2 to the rest. Then, here's the best part, in the one AI-only tech you have in order to make the AI more competant, you make every capital ship start with three levels of XP when it comes out of the factory. As a bonus, you should also give it an extra 4 logistic slots, because then that will make the AI into something more fearsome than a decent human player. You might think "oh it's Sins of the Capital Ships now" but that's fucking wrong. You do this so the AI will build the fuck out of capital ships. You can have two tiers of capital ships, ones which are "cruisers" which cost less and benefit less from leveling up, and more traditional capital ships which do. Hell you can even have capital ships with the same health/weaponry/speed, but the differences are abilities and level up benefits, which is a pretty fucking awesome sight. Anyways the AI will build capitals in numbers that will fuck you up and I've seen this bloody happen with my own motherfucking eyes, where I've tried to flat out exploit the AI but it fucked my day up regardless. This will happen even if you leave capital ship crews in as a researchable item, but really it's best to give everything 999 capital ship crews starting, as this make shit much more fun and manageable, plus you can slap in capital ship crew bonuses into random techs to make the AI more likely to research shit. Anyways, the AI will ignore pretty much all frigates except for those with fighter squadrons, for cheap fighter support, antifighters, support ships, scouts, colonizers, and possibly envoys. Did I mention this has all been done on an AI that has access to none of the diplomacy pacts and envoys? Because fuck Diplomacy and what it stands for, just lock teams and the AI gives zero shits about that useless dirt. Now you have three fucking tiers of ships, frigates, capital ships (which should be the mainstay of your forces because fuck year Star Destroyers and Dreadnaughts of fucking doom because fuck you that's why), and Titans which are the absolute lords of everything because they will make you shit your pants. And Stardock apparently made the cannon fodder known as corvettes possibly be a real sub-class of frigates as of 1.04, which might make for a fourth class of ship, but fuck those things. Oh and you're probably wondering how XP would work for these radically different capital ships. I hope you aren't too attached to the fifth ability slot, as you can set up a passive to spawn a frigate that dies immediately that will generate a number of XP. Then the XP outlined in gameplay.constants is just there to give bonuses based on the level of the ship with the bulk of XP being based on the ship itself, like fucking frigates which is bloody awesome. All of this is possible because we can make our old super capital ships into their own fucking entity type.

Did I forget to mention that all of this, except for the capital ship XP system, has been both done and tested? I would fucking know as I've spent many hours of the past month or so coding because I fucking felt like it. And I've been able to do all of this because there's an entity called "Titan". Oh and I'm 90% sure some modders were able to tie the SB's phase jumping to the Destabilize Phase Space upgrade.

P.S. I respect you as you're one of the few people here willing to call a spade a spade when many here try to be politically correct, and if you don't look at this wonderful wall of text I've made for you which actually contains legitimately useful information I'll lose a lot of that respect I have for you. I bid you good day sir and the best of luck in your modding endeavors.

I think the challenge is to make jumping Starbases less powerful while still keeping them exciting. For this reason requiring each starbase to be upgraded to be jump capable is a great starting point. That makes them a bit more expensive, but I think VR players would still gladly pay the price.

You start getting into trouble when you make them cost fleet supply. That eliminates much of their appeal in the first place. Sure, this would make them less powerful, but also much less appealing. Maybe this will ultimately be necessary to balance them, but it's not a great solution. Having something really overpowered doesn't lead to fun gameplay, but it's also no fun when your race's signature powerhouse turns out to suck.

Look at Returning Armada: in the original game it produced ships at no cost. It was an exciting, awesome ultimate ability if you were playing Vasari, but turned out to be OP. They changed it to cost resources. At that point you might as well just produce from factories, so it went from being awesome but OP to fair but irrelevant. It can be tough to find that sweet spot, seems like they're moving slowly with jumping SBs but they might still get there in the end.

Yeah, quoting a post I made:

"Well, am I the only one who is more concerned about upgrades like Armor Restoration and Share Shield Tec? I made a mod with my friends that removes the 4th upgrade for the Orkulus's hull, and slows down the starbase at 160 in friendly wells / 30 in every other well, so it's just too unpractical to use them offensively, but once I research Armor Restoration my ships are way better than the enemy's.

For instance a Vasari Loyalist Kanrak full upgraded has 780 hull, 432 shields, and 8 armor, while a Rebel one has 930/486/13, 2% more base mitigation and 20% more damage. The Armor/Hull upgrade affects everything: Frigates, Capital Ships, Titans, Buildings, so basically the Vasari Rebel Fleet is stronger even without Starbases."

i think they should just give up on the jumping star bases, give VR a tec 8 prototype ship, since the whole reasoning behind them being able to upgrade their shields and hull is because of resources gained from alliances. just say that allows them to build their most advanced cruiser or something like that