After about 30 minutes of attempting to play this----I think i am finally beaten. Once again I play this game everynight..I have played for hundreds of hours with no sov pictures, sideways arrows, spells, buildings and heroes that do not do what the tool tip says. I have continued to play even knowing that some factions are virtually unplayable because CORE mechanics dont work...cant play death if your spells make pretty lights and do not do damage. So i download the beta and start in.....City placement is now MORE restrictive and the maps suck as bad as always....now not only do have to find the forest and the river and the food resource BUT you also have to have ESSENCE...CTRl-N like never before. Your cities now intentionally mow down those trees that you need for another building...every single time. OUR cities have to be shunted into a useless growth path almost immediately---an empty que is good for what? OUTPOSTS...not even gonna go there. Seriously guys.
Who are you guys making this game for? We still have errors from three or four patches back that are still here and now we see that the results of the last six months are just to make things prettier and put us on a rail system of city management and gameplay........one spot might get you a good city..one choice...is a decision with only one correct outcome a choice?...in character development.
Fall from heaven kept me going for years because you could get big and loud and stupid and just plop anywhere and try to pull it out. Right now with this patch you better ctrl-n about 20 more times....and you had better not take more than 2 turns to plop somewhere. Can we have a vote for choice? Going to sign off and go download AION...seriously guys.....have a beer and step back and think about what you are doing.
IF you want us reduced to ONE sov ONE city spot on the map ONE correct path ...then just make a video for youtube and people like me that want to PLAY a game can just move on.
Took a break had a smoke and came back ....Froggie Kael and others, speaking for myself, the enjoyment of games if from choices. We are at a point where all our choices are being reduced constantly.
First- abandon essence...it is subtractive not additive.
Second. FIX known errors. sideways arrows and spells that do not work. And 3d models why dont they work? If you need me to bring my PC and show up at the office then we can do that but when I cant see my sov then i really dont have a sense of attachement with the game.
third put stuff back in ---streamlining is exactly NOT the way we want to go. tech tree should be big and bushy and have a couple of choices that are plain foolish.....give us a jester college or a gypsy camp just for the hell of it. Give us back every building, sov, stupid spell, caravan and just plain nonsense. IT IS A world not an amusemaent park I do not want to stand in a line I want to run around in circles and go woohoo. STOR is failing miserably because it a storyline driven ONE track game.
Fourth MAKE more spots to build a city....I can live with a 4-3 if it has a forest or a grain or a mana shard.....but when it takes 10 ctrl-ns to get the minimum playable requirements, then i am just reloading and not Playing.
Sovs--where to start. Give us back the unseen. Quit giving the remainders lobotomies.....pressing end turn while waiting for a troop to back up your sov so they can walk 10 hexes away is just foolish. I could walk an entire FFH map with my leader...Cant do that in FE. I dont care if he or she is smoking hot on turn 300...if she dies eight times before level 5 then she is useless.
CIV 5 has show us exactly how to kill almost an entire segment of the gaming market. TAKE AWAY CHOICES. There are still people playing FALL from Heaven in huge numbers because it was big and bold. Warlock is gaining converts because they added...what? MORE choices.
Yes there is a segment of games that almost certainly requires the correct choices to play successfully- You can crash and burn in Mechwarrior and End of nations if you dont follow a pretty restrictive path....strategy games arent like that we want to build a stupid pyramid on an island just because we can...and beat the hell out of the greeks while we are doing it.....so guys once again i write basically the same damn post asking for more and getting less.
Hound out
I loved FFH. I like Civ 5 more than Civ 4 and liked Civ 4 more than civ 3. Some people refused to play civ 4 and still play civ 3. Civ is a different kind of series - it shifts with every iteration and still keeps going strong (despite what people who don't like Civ 5 spew). This game is doing some interesting things and feels way better than it did in its original form. Diversity and variety between game franchises is a good thing, otherwise what'd be the point.
Sorry but I am loving FE and so are many others, also, Warlock is an extremely boring game after one play.
I don't think there is a single thing you said that I agree with. I do want to comment about starting position. The balance has been changed so that the lesser combinations are more competitive than before. The new minimum good start is a 4/2/1. This is because essence can add +5 Production and then later +1 Grain, making it a 5/2. Anything better than that and you are cheating by regenerating the map. This is also because the Production per Materials has been changed and Population no longer lends to production. Materials finally matter. Essence is multiplicative, not subtractive. I would like to hear more about what you mean by that.
But hey, if you don't like the balance, mod it. If you don't like the game, don't play it. I am having a great time and love the new changes. There is so much more opportunity cost now, which is the heart of interesting choices. I would enjoy a hearty conversation about what exactly you don't like about beta 4 because all I see is gold.
If you would like to see my initial review, here is a you Youtube link to my let's play videos:
http://youtu.be/0gFACDEwax0
To each thier own I guess, I didn't like Warlock at all. I do like Civ 5 (and 4, 3, 2 and 1) each for their own reasons.
I don't think FE is perfect, but it also isn't released yet but I think it is great so far if the things that need fixing get fixed. I can certainly understand your frustration if you've been having the same bugs for awhile, I'm new to the beta so that certainly creates a bias that I'm not experiencing.
To the OP: Dude if you have such strong issues with fundamental structural parts of this game, then perhaps you want to go back to the games you are enjoying and stop trying to make this into the game YOU want... there are hundreds of people in this forum which are very enthusiastic about both the game and the way it is heading, and there is no way a developer can please everyone...
As to some of your specific points:
1. Recurring bugs - the game is still BETA, and you are comparing it to a MOD (which took several people several man-months to make) which was applied to a RELEASED and bugfixed game. Expecting the latest beta to have all the bugs resolved is premature. I will join you in protest if the game is buggy upon final release, but not yet.
2. Outposts - seriously? I (and many others) find them an exceptional strategic addition to the game, especially with the new upgrades...
3. City Locations - have you ever reached a game to beyond turn 50? Cities are viable in many situations, and you don't have to find the perfect 5/3/2 tile near a river to play this game...
4. On your overall tone - please PLEASE learn to either be positive when giving feedback or move on to another game / forum! This will make the feedback much more effective, and your life easier...
Best, bendiwolf
Video has been removed by user...
Darkhound,
A few notes on your post, while you have some good points, allow me to point out the following.
1) "Fall from heaven kept me going for years because you could get big and loud and stupid and just plop anywhere and try to pull it out."
Sounds like you might enjoy, MINECRAFT, you can do anything ~! milk a goat, tame a wolf, build a giant death robot... this maybe the play style you are looking for.. million of choices. Choices are good. to may choices are bad. Which brings us to the core of my point....
2) "Froggie Kael and others, speaking for myself, the enjoyment of games if from choices. We are at a point where all our choices are being reduced constantly."
the Number of choices has indeed been reduced. Now, what they did here is make it so the choices you do make MATTER. see? This is WHY choices matter.. they have impacts. who wants a gypsy camp? I want don't (no offence to gypsy's). So instead of having a million pointless decisions, you have to make some hard choices about what to build. when. and where. As a dev recently said "the build que will become you most valuable resource."
let me compliment you on playing AION.. unless that was some kind of joke.. i still play AION...
@bendiwolf:
Stardock had an extremaly good reputation for prolonged support of their products.
That reputation has been tarnished two years ago, because while they do support their products, the bugs that were reported during tests weren't cleared, and the developers weren't willing to listen to the customers. I don't want to beat the dead horse, but I have to. Many, too many, bugs were reported during War of Magic beta and they made it through to the release. They made the game unplayable, and they made the company to release their next full fledged product being released for free. I appreciate, and honor that, but the fact is that what I see is a repetition of that. most of the bugs described by Hound are there since always, some since WoM, and the fact they are not addressed is frustrating. I am affraid that the 1.00 will not have 3d models on my computers, that for unknown reasons the tactical combat snails the gameplay, that the game will freeze after autolock.
This are basic, technical issues, not balance. The game will not be ready for beta 5 until this get's ironed out.
@sentinemodo: But I see the 3d models, so sorry for people not seeing them, but something funny is going on with them.Not trying to pick a fight, just giving something to think about
Sincerely~ Kongdej
I may know of a way to fix this. Have you tried deleting your cache in the hidden data folder? I was not getting the new UI in Beta 3 and I had to delete some old files in there that were mucking things up. I believe the files are located in C:\ProgramData\Stardock\Elemental-FallenEnchantress\Screens. delete all of that and run the FE.exe again. It will download the new data from the server and maybe fix your game. These files are supposed to get deleted upon uninstall, but are apparently missed sometimes. Then the reinstall does not overwrite them.
@Kongdej: I am not trying to pick up the fight. I only tried to say, that Hound had a valid point in his first sentences. That reported bugs should be cleared. I have my own set of issues, that bothers me, but there are lots of us in the forums, that do not report balance issues, but technical ones (performance mainly). I am fully aware, that the world has changed since 1990, and multiple sets of hardware/os/drivers make it close to impossible, but I am affraid that it is the type of business that Frog choose for himself - to develop software. And he really need to stop elaborating why it is difficult novadays and deliver. Just like the business software developers do. I do feel sorry for myself for not seing 3d models.
@seanw3: thanks for the tip. tried just now and I am sorrry to report, that it is not working.
Darn. Have yous sent an e-mail to support@stardock.com? Your problem could be present on thousands of computers. I would hate for another WoM launch.
Nope, I put a debug.err in this forums and I've seen this particular error in at least four threads, with at least two having replies from Derek and Frog themselves.
If they can't get it fixed, I don't believe support will.
If it weren't for the complaint about old bugs still sticking around for a long time, there would be absolutely nothing I agreed with in the OP. It even begins with the odd assumption that this game is supposed to be related to Fall from Heaven? Why? Because Kael is working on it? Admittedly, that failure of logic didn't do much to warm me to the rest of the post, but going further I can't relate to much else the OP wrote either.
You need to CTRL-N repeatedly? Why? Sure, in my second BETA 4 game I did a few times, but overall I didn't find many starting positions that were crippling. Possibly not ideal, but who expects a perfect start every game?
I also like Essence. It's a neat addition and adds another layer to the strategy portion of the game.
And I really like Outposts compared to city spamming in other games. I just wish I had more control over directing where my empire's resources were distributed and more ways to keep other nations from waltzing all over my territory without having to constantly open the diploscreen and slap their wrists when I catch a unit on my property.
I guess I sorta agree that city spots can be sorely lacking, but it has never been horribly restrictive. The bigger problem I've found is that you're forced to pioneer rush early on to get those few spots. It's not particularly fun when combined with the inability to remove bad cities once the AI places them.
So, if you're going to march out and back to FFH don't count me amongst your troop? Not that I won't play FFH for other reasons, but I'm just not finding a lot of substance behind your (the OP's) criticisms.
I would suggest sending them an e-mail. In my experience, getting a ticket from support is more effective for video and configuration problems. It can't hurt to try. Not to pour salt on the wound, but the 3D model for research is quite handsome and Lady Irane seems to have had some work done, if you know what I mean.
Seanw3 thanks for the idea but that didnt work either.......I havent seen her since a long time ago...i really miss her....
At 47 years old i have been playing games since before most of these pups were born, i have seen multiple failures...anyone else remembers lords of magic? and multiple legend- GAlciv is one of the best ever. My absolute riding this pony until its hooves fall off is that i WANT to be playing this game in 10 years. Like alpha centauri and war of magic this game has the possibility for 1000s of hours in it....but..many of the stupid errors have been here since WOM...which i payed for and played the hell out of. I have told my girlfrind that i am buying this game when it comes out and I dont care if frogboy gives it to me for free. It is worth that much to me. But we see constant My little pony pretty upgrades when simple game mechanics dont work. And then we get changes that dont add to the game. Subtractive for those that dont understand.
does my starting place have a grain? does it have a forest? USABLE mana-----not another water shard. these are the things that mattered before this beta...we could correct two of them maybe with enchantments. BUT NOT anymore. You cant enchant if you dont have essence....ITS bad enough that we can upgrade an entire planet in a scifi game but with magic we cant make the grass grow?
sideways arrows? really
Outposts one of the few reasons to build outposts was to get one more red mana and get it quick. NOw that mana source is added to the nearest city and you will get it whenever the que empties......that is a lesser choice. If it is going to be built in a city then why can i que it and rush it?
Why was a mechanic that NO ONE had any objections or complaints or even thought about changed so drastically?
And once again we have people in this thread that say go play something else....i AM A CUSTOMER.You understand that? the gaming industry is dying so fast it isnt funny. Gamestop NO PC GAMES, same with a lot of walmart stores. The best gaming software company left in the market is right here and i am being told to go give my money to EA? Tell me again why the fastest growing MMO is IN korea.....yes that would be AION.
Stop with that crap . I constantly inform people and the designers of how much I play this game. I beat on it like a red headed step child but i intent to keep playing. I can come home from work and be CTRL-NNing in less than 2 minutes....that whips the hell out of civ 5's 4 hour load time.
Because darkehound, most of your criticism doesn't make any sense and no one really agrees with you. Yes, I agree the bugs should be fixed but that is all I agree with.
As for pc dying>> Have you not been paying attention> It is the console market which is pretty much dying. The PC market is actually increasing with venues like Steam which allow many independent developers to put products out. Sales of console video games has dropped by 50% already from last year and continues to decline. PC sales, especially on platforms like Steam, are greatly increasing.
I also have been around, and yes I remember Lords of magic, still have it actually.
If this is as I suspect a typo and you meant can't, you can now drag and drop items in the build queue. If it was not a typo, I don't get what you mean.
I meant it is now built in a city which takes away a manufacturing slot and time from that city...why was this done?
No one really agrees with me? Is that why the forum is filled with bug reports? And people talking about changes to gameplay that came out in this patch that make no sense?
Oh well I spent all weekend playing Aion out of frustration...cant believe I am still not seeing my sov.
The forum is filled with bug reports because this is a beta, and the development team wants to know about them. Your reactions are on another order, altogether, indicating what appears to me, at least, as a deep and abiding dislike for FE's game design. I've posted quite a few bugs, some of them ongoing, but that doesn't mean I agree with you. I like the game a lot, and when it is finished presumably will like it still more. Because I perceive it as having many features I enjoy, well-implemented.
This doesn't make your opinions about the kind of game you enjoy invalid, but on the other hand, your opinions neither determine nor invalidate mine.
I guess you dont understand that these so called bugs have been in the game since WOM? Headless sovs and no clothes and bad tactical battles and errors and wandering monster deaths are some of the errors that have been in this code since the game first hit the shelves and they have never been addressed. Instead we get pretty patch with new sparkles. Go into the WOM side and look at the bug reports, they are still the same errors. Thats what has gotten me bent. We bought a game that failed for numerous reasons that still havent been addressed. Are we gonna see this game be released with the same failures that WOM had? Or is everyone gonna keep saying they will fix them in the next patch?
Most of the bugs referred to in the forums are FE-specific. If they weren't, a lot of other voices would be raised, besides yours.
The patch was substantive, and your way of dismissing it as dealing with minor matters makes me wonder if you've simply given up on FE completely, and are trying to convince others to do the same. As with the title to your thread, you seem to be trying to rally people to a cause we simply don't believe in--and that exasperates you, if your post ("No one really agrees with me?") is anything to judge by. You're welcome to continue, of course, but I strongly doubt it's going to convince many people, because--as I mentioned above--our concerns do not deal with the basic issues that are yours. You simply don't like anything about the game. I can respect these views, but you seem to have a problem believing we can seriously hold ones that differ from you. You might want to work on that. A hell of a lot of people in the world differ from us on our individual views, and curiously enough, they are just as correct as we are in many instances. The intensity with which our individual experiences guide our opinions does not amount to any kind of truth. Except to ourselves.
Darkehound I think you need to get some perspective on what you are saying... some points to think about:
1. The fact that a lot of posts are reporting bugs and features that they want DOES NOT MEAN that they agree with your assessment that the game has "failed for numerous reasons". In fact, if you look at the "first impressions" poll you will see that an OVERWHELMING MAJORITY has rated the game excellent, good or fair...
2. It is quite certain that most people playing this game DO NOT agree with you on several "feature" points on your original post, such as essence (most people love it), outposts (everyone agrees they are a good addition to the game) city customization etc.
3. Frogboy has EXPLICITLY said that Patch 5 will be all about fixing bugs and UI issues, so complaining about bugs not having been fixed is impatient, childish and downright silly
4. Your status as a customer DOES NOT entitle you to demand, in a petulant way, for a company to produce a product EXACTLY LIKE THE ONE YOU WANT! Your choices are (a) to avoid buying the product and ( to create your own company and build a product to your idea of perfection. That's the free market for you...
5. As Glazunov said, characterizing the new patch as "pretty patch with new sparkles" means that either you are very biased against this game, or you've completely missed its design principles - either way, I GUARANTEE that you will not be happy with it in the end
6. I COMPLETELY don't understand why you get offended when other people tell you to move on and play other games, since YOU YOURSELF keep mentioning that you prefer FFH, AION etc.
Take a breath, go outside, meet some people, and please stop trying to make this game into something it isn't and most people don't want it to be...
Go and read that WOM forums-- the bugs are not FE specific ---they are the same code. YAH the patch changed a lot of things but DID not correct game ending CTD's Reload ctd's new game ctds memory leaks graphic errors spell errors game suicide errors like wandering monsters and ZOC and City errors...you know all the things the reveiwers panned the last game for...THAT are still in the code and still make this game hard to play.
I am in 3 betas right now only one has ctds and constant gameplay errors. I ran End of nations for an entire weekend without logging out and it did not crash. I cant get FE to stay stable for 50 turns.
I and several other people have played more than 10 full games with it (3000 turns!) WITHOUT any problems... have you even for a moment thought the problem lies with you or your PC?
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