After about 30 minutes of attempting to play this----I think i am finally beaten. Once again I play this game everynight..I have played for hundreds of hours with no sov pictures, sideways arrows, spells, buildings and heroes that do not do what the tool tip says. I have continued to play even knowing that some factions are virtually unplayable because CORE mechanics dont work...cant play death if your spells make pretty lights and do not do damage. So i download the beta and start in.....City placement is now MORE restrictive and the maps suck as bad as always....now not only do have to find the forest and the river and the food resource BUT you also have to have ESSENCE...CTRl-N like never before. Your cities now intentionally mow down those trees that you need for another building...every single time. OUR cities have to be shunted into a useless growth path almost immediately---an empty que is good for what? OUTPOSTS...not even gonna go there. Seriously guys.
Who are you guys making this game for? We still have errors from three or four patches back that are still here and now we see that the results of the last six months are just to make things prettier and put us on a rail system of city management and gameplay........one spot might get you a good city..one choice...is a decision with only one correct outcome a choice?...in character development.
Fall from heaven kept me going for years because you could get big and loud and stupid and just plop anywhere and try to pull it out. Right now with this patch you better ctrl-n about 20 more times....and you had better not take more than 2 turns to plop somewhere. Can we have a vote for choice? Going to sign off and go download AION...seriously guys.....have a beer and step back and think about what you are doing.
IF you want us reduced to ONE sov ONE city spot on the map ONE correct path ...then just make a video for youtube and people like me that want to PLAY a game can just move on.
Took a break had a smoke and came back ....Froggie Kael and others, speaking for myself, the enjoyment of games if from choices. We are at a point where all our choices are being reduced constantly.
First- abandon essence...it is subtractive not additive.
Second. FIX known errors. sideways arrows and spells that do not work. And 3d models why dont they work? If you need me to bring my PC and show up at the office then we can do that but when I cant see my sov then i really dont have a sense of attachement with the game.
third put stuff back in ---streamlining is exactly NOT the way we want to go. tech tree should be big and bushy and have a couple of choices that are plain foolish.....give us a jester college or a gypsy camp just for the hell of it. Give us back every building, sov, stupid spell, caravan and just plain nonsense. IT IS A world not an amusemaent park I do not want to stand in a line I want to run around in circles and go woohoo. STOR is failing miserably because it a storyline driven ONE track game.
Fourth MAKE more spots to build a city....I can live with a 4-3 if it has a forest or a grain or a mana shard.....but when it takes 10 ctrl-ns to get the minimum playable requirements, then i am just reloading and not Playing.
Sovs--where to start. Give us back the unseen. Quit giving the remainders lobotomies.....pressing end turn while waiting for a troop to back up your sov so they can walk 10 hexes away is just foolish. I could walk an entire FFH map with my leader...Cant do that in FE. I dont care if he or she is smoking hot on turn 300...if she dies eight times before level 5 then she is useless.
CIV 5 has show us exactly how to kill almost an entire segment of the gaming market. TAKE AWAY CHOICES. There are still people playing FALL from Heaven in huge numbers because it was big and bold. Warlock is gaining converts because they added...what? MORE choices.
Yes there is a segment of games that almost certainly requires the correct choices to play successfully- You can crash and burn in Mechwarrior and End of nations if you dont follow a pretty restrictive path....strategy games arent like that we want to build a stupid pyramid on an island just because we can...and beat the hell out of the greeks while we are doing it.....so guys once again i write basically the same damn post asking for more and getting less.
Hound out
I agree with a lot you're saying. How many people go past the one game for each Beta release? I certainly never did, except for a few restarts. The pattern is always the same: it looks improved and very promising the first turns, then when you start going deeper into it BLANDNESS HAPPENS. So, as far as reviews go, I think it really depends on how many points Stardock will get for "good will" - points that are deserved anyway for what they did and the HUGE improvement over EWoM - and how much the reviewers themselves will play. I sense the devs know this too, that's why they ask specifically for first impressions (but I may be too unforgiving here, I admit).
On the other hand, one can only complain so many times. Magic was the thing people have complained the most through the various betas, and still it's bland and almost devoid of any meaningful role 2 full years later. Maybe it just isn't in their genes to make a fantasy game with "personality", or is not what they want to do to begin with.
So, at this point it'd be fair to settle for a fine, smoothly running container where modders can inject any measure of "personality". *I'd* settle for it. But see, this is where I disagree with you, because I'm not at all certain that the many technical issues will be solved: the game is in a very poor state in this regard, imho.
So this brings me to my question: should I try Fall from Heaven, having never played it before?
I just can't agree with you Mastroego. The game is shaping up very well for me and I only have a few minor issues with it. Also, it is easy to see how things are different this time around in my opinion. People are mostly complaining about bugs and balance issues which can be fixed, they are not complaining about the core mechanics of the game, only a few are. I guess maybe that doesn't mean anything but then how can anyone determine either way.
Mhormal, you don't like the game, that is fine. What I can't stand is how you think you are the authority on TBS games. Get over yourself.
Because you don't understand, I am going to explain to you what core mechanics here you are saying need to change. The tech tree, not going to change. That is a core mechanic which is not going to change. They might move things around in it and play with it a bit but it is staying.
More uniqueness with factions is a good thing and they have taken some steps in this direction but it could use more. This I agree with, but I do not think the factions are bland.
Different outfits and such is something that can be done but I really don't see the purpose of it. It is purely cosmetic and a minor issue in my opinion. Also, you forget it is supposed to be a ravaged world, they are not going to have fancy starting equipment, it doesn't make sense. I would agree with unique armors.
Your request to ditch the original factions is another core mechanic you are asking to change. It is not going to happen and your request is unreasonable. This is why people don't take you seriously and why Frogboy has said to some that maybe this game isn't for them. These things are not going to change, if you think they are then you are just fooling yourself so just quit now before you get more disappointed. Also your request for "something more sexy" is in my opinion, childish and stupid.
This is exactly why I said your post is ridiculous. You mention mostly ridiculous outlandish things, with only one worthy point which has already been said many times, and you expect to be taken seriously. If you have issues with the game, then give meaningful feedback. You shouldn't be asking for things which just aren't going to happen.
I dont know if i am an authority on TBS games , but i did play them all that from the beggining of computer gaming first ones in the 80's or so , so i can at least says i know what i am talking about. Today's we have electronic devices that would be sci fi in my childhood , yet i dont see much progress if any at all in video games except graphics. 18 years later master of magic is still a better game, why is that ? Warlock isnt doing much better either to be fair .
Core mechanics not going to change ? Whats the point even discussing the game then bare asking a few bug fixes ? Close the forums ! If you are right , then it will be a mild disaster ,reviews pinpointing exactly what i said ,60% -70% reviews, , a game soon forgotten.
You dont see the purpose of outfits and such but i feel more involved to play a character i built myself from A to Z and more important with a vast array of skills choices , old roleplayer habit i suppose.https://forums.elementalgame.com/421802 Look at this , isnt it worth it ? This should have been in the core game.
In a ravaged world your sovereign wont have fancy outift ? Ah in africa leaders of country ravaged by civil war and famine build themselves versailles like palaces, private stadium and airport....I am sorry this isnt how things are working.
You may deem my demands unreasonable, and the game is just not for me , but i' d like to know to who is this designed for then, i fear that the game is not for many people indeed, its certainly not what was advertised years ago.
Comparing Africa to a ravaged and destroyed world overrun by monsters is offensive in my opinion. They are not comparable and you are talking about established countries who have vast wealth which is mismanaged. In this case you are a wandering nomad who starts up a city for the first time. You should be able to make these distinctions with just a little bit of thought.
Don't get me started on who has been playing games for longer and who has played more TBS games. I can go into depth on how many I have played and still own. I literally own over a thousand games across many platforms (consoles, pc, etc.) This does not make you some kind of expert, nor does it mean you know how to make a good game.
No, the core mechanics are not going to change, how many times does Frogboy and stardock have to make that clear to people who persist in their stubbornness, like you? Tech trees and factions are Core mechanics, they are not going to change. That does not mean they wont make them more unique as in perhaps different buildings or different abilities\skills, etc. They are however not going to make Elves, orcs, etc. Also, as the game stands right now, I grade it around an 80 give or take a couple of points, not a 60 to 70.
What exactly did they advertise? Please inform me about what they advertised but didn't deliver. Just because you are not enjoying the game does not mean they have lied or advertised something they didn't deliver. As a matter of fact, I don't think they advertised much for Fallen Enchantress at all, maybe you have it confused with WoM.
I am not saying the game is perfect, and I do hope they deliver on those other 20 points (to get to 100 from 80). However, what you are hoping for (actually I do not know what you are hoping for because you have yet to make any meaningful suggestions other than complain) is probably not going to happen. Nor do I think it should happen until I have a better idea of what exactly you want, other than nice clothes to put on your character.
I'm not saying it's horrible (that was WoM). I can see why some would like it. To me, the biggest draw was supposed to be magic, and that's just not there: not in power, not in variety, not in mechanics. It still pales in comparison to MoM's magic system, while, if anything, it should have been *more* daring to compensate, since FE doesn't even include diverse races (for technical reasons, as explained by the devs).
But it's fine for me, I'm not asking for changes anymore, I know they're not coming.
Is Fall from Heaven more exciting in terms of magic?
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Good post. I agree 100%.
About advertising for FE. There was one thing frogboy advertised over and over and they still have not delivered. He promised we will all get cancer. Instead I find myself enjoying FE so much.
I am curious Mastroego, what about the magic system do you not like? Is it the variety of spells or something else? Spells can be easily created and modded in. I might try my hand at that myself. Or is it something else? Why don't you post in my other topic about suggestions to make FE better, tell me what you think would make a better magic system and maybe I can somehow mod it in.
I just have to say I had a fun time reading this thread.
Did anything get accomplished. No, but everyone got to say a word. It felt like I was watching the Morrie Povich show.
Mfrast, this thread started unproductive. How do you expect anything to get done? Your expectations were too high.
Thanks to this thread I learned about the fall from heaven mod, dusted off my old CIV IV and away I go. Gives me something to play while I'm waiting for them to fix FE.
Cheers buddy.
Ah the fall from heaven mod try it , and you will see whats missing on FE even more . Blackrain try to ignore what i suggested,blatantly insulting me at every post , i cant be more clear, i want choices in the game, a skill tree with various choices , more feats more items , unique building unique units. Its not just a matter of pretty cloth on my sovereign, its a matter of faction personalities, plenty of example in the fantasy litterature, makes evil faction feels like mordor , i dont know , right now they dont seems much threatening nor evil to me , make the heroic faction more glorious...
So playing every other in the genre dont make able to make a good game, probably not its not my career i was expecting them to do it for me, but i know by experience those 4X need a subtle alchemy to work , the thing that makes you stay awake at 4 am, wanting for just one more turn . I dont have the recipe for this but i know some of the reagents are missing , not enough feats for character creations, not enough diversity, far too much streamlining .I also agree with OP cities should be placed everywhere with distance restrictions, why change the good old civilisation system to replace it with one that doesnt seems to work.
Magic is still disapointing, i am tired to state it every time,so many are they arent posting here anymore , theres not enough spells, and we need more spectacular ones.
Honestly i envy you guys to be satisfied with so little, maybe its a matter of blind faith , that just not working for me that game is not making me stay awake .
It's actually fall from heaven II that I have loaded, it seems to be a very well made mod.
As for FE, I have to say I did expect more emphasis on magic and less on micro managing city's and spamming armies, but there you have it.
Yes, it is. I wish the guy, who did this mod, would be in charge for FE. Imagine what a game FE would be. What was his name? Derek ... Derek Paxton.
Well the thing which is great about FE is that you will be able to mod most of the things that some of you are complaining about. You can add in new armors and clothes, you can add new buildings, unique buildings, more spells, more monsters, different factions, etc. All of these things can be modded into the game. I am already starting to look into some of the things.
If you play just one game in the genre, it should most definitely be this one.
If you're unhappy with amount of strategic depth in FE, FfH2 will be very much to your liking. If you're not unhappy, you will be after playing. Also, get Tholal's More Naval AI mod, it will dramatically improve your experience.
Well see in MoM magic was central - damn, there was even Alchemy to turn gold into Mana, and every leader had it!
In FE it seems more like an afterthought. First of all, there's no straight way to build a pure caster. The way skills are assigned, you're gonna end with a "multiclass" caster at best, no matter what. Then there's the messy way by which spells are assigned, that is: some come in groups with research, some come randomly at level up. It's messy and I don't like it.
Only thing I know, I played one entire game with Pariden, I mean the mage leader supposedly, and focused research on Magic. With the whole tree researched, I still had a few lousy spells (just a few more than at start), the most potent being a summon that with 3 matching shards still was less useful than my regular units. Don't even get me started on wonders like Burning Hands... who would even cast it? Sorry if I repeat examples I made in another thread, but they're handy... I couldn't stop remembering MoM when casting Regeneration! In MoM a Regenerating unit could die in battle and then regenerate if you won it (yes, the victor could salvage the regenerating body!) In FE you get a +1 or something...
It's not about the power, it's about the possibilities. In MoM, with a regenerating unit, you could go suicidal, gambling on the outcome of the battle. And then you had spells like Invisibility, True Sight, Flight, Create Artifact! TRUE spells, that altered the tactical situation entirely. It's not what we have here, it's more like a bonus-oriented "spreadsheet" thing. It can work if properly balanced but it won't ever excite me, and it somehow misses the potential of the fantasy setting.
EDIT: thanx @LightOfAbraxas, I'll try and get more info about it then
Mastroego, a lot of the things you hope for might just be possible. Why don't you post a long post in my other thread (suggestions on how to mod FE to make it better) and I will look into it. It will need to be in depth though because a lot of stuff would need to be changed. Spells revamped, probably shard changes, new spells, new spell requirements, changing the magic tech tree, etc. Let me know what you think there.
FFh2 is and will always be one of the legends, like the previous poster said you have to get it.
And as far as MOM-create artifact- one of my all time favorite spells, another game that shall remain nameless had this also and it was just so much fun.
funny lantros...very funny
I seriously wonder what happened to the wonder boy that gave us the possibility OF PLAYING A CITY OF FRIKKEN ANGELS!!!!! THATS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!!!
And after reading frogboy's latest post ---THE game is going to be released next week.....I guess that is AS-IS.
OMG who thought that was a good idea......the game is simply not stable....deal with that nothing else IT ISNT stable.
Just crashed on reload. one year old system running windows 7 and a radeon 6450. NOT.STABLE.PERIOD
Naked sovs headless sovs corrupted saves.....NOT addressing game play at all......OH well we will throw it out there and try to get some gildars.....and get raped by the reviewers. You can have a truly mediocre game that will run and be ok...but if your game crashes on reload? NOT gonna be pretty
http://www.gamespot.com/elemental-war-of-magic/reviews/elemental-war-of-magic-review-6275189/
mentions crashes in first paragraph
http://reviews.cnet.com/pc-games/elemental-war-of-magic/4505-9696_7-33375765.html#!
same review on CNET
http://www.g4tv.com/games/pc/63836/elemental-war-of-magic/review/
What's most frustrating is that in the rare moments when the game fires on all cylinders its as engrossing, addictive and engaging as the other great empire-building strategy games it seeks to emulate – then a game ending crash or inexplicable road block rears its head and frustration returns.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2010/09/07/elemental-war-of-magic-review
Repeatedly I lost my progress to a random crash, and in one case I even lost the ability to load up my prior saves because they were incompatible with the new version Stardock released.
Welcome to the rodeo boys we gonna get plastered AGAIN.
Start thinking about ideas for a new game maybe Kael can reboot FFH.
Everything we have talked about in this thread is DONE at this point. Mods are now the way to go but unfortunately that wont help the stability of the core game.
You might want to read the post again...
Why would i? It is going to be on steam isnt it? It is being released isnt it? I dont care if you call it BABY NOT READY FOR THE DEEP WATER BETA GAMMA EPSILON NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME.. IT will get reviewed and it will get panned for crashing....again. No way this should be seen by more people until at least xmas.
I hope you all now see what I am saying about the ridiculousness in this thread. Darkehound obviously major failed to understand what Frogboy was saying haha.
Explain it to me....frogboy is going to release a beta that still has the exact problems than WOM was reviled for TWO years ago. Crashes.
I even gave you the reviews. Now explain to me how i am the ridiculous one. Do you have another explanation of the release next week of this game? Is there something i am not seeing or do you just like the personal attacks?
It's no more a release than this pre-order Beta is. A bit more visible on Steam but this isn't the game that's going on release and there's a patch coming with the Beta 4A. It might be bad, but I'm not really seeing how your EVERYTHING IS OVER approach is appropriate.
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