So met my first level 10 Titan, against it I ran 14 capitals and over 150 cruisers, and two starbases in range, plus my level 8 Titan. After some 20 minutes, rebuilding all of my fleet again and again, in constant battle, and spending out my 250k credits I had saved, it died.
Only to face 10 minutes later another level 10 Titan from the same race! [that was quick], where I had a message saying that they had only just completed building it. Another massive fight takes place, after rebuilding 10+ capitals, hundreds of cruises, all streaming to the battle from over 14 frigate factories near by, and built 2 fully loaded starbases within range of this Titan, plus my own level 8 Titan, spending 150k credits on new ships, and the enemy Titans health stays at 17,000, I ditch the game as unatteniable. At this stage I had lost every capital ship, hundereds of cruises and my Titan, TEC Loyalist defensive was down to 18%
I have sadley yet to complete a single game of Rebelion.
1 - kept crashing at 3/4 completion
2 - kept crashing at random intervals.
3 - Unable to beat an enemy Titan, when it was on its own, with every ship slot available to me, max Caps, Max crusiers, Titan [lvl8] and two maxed out Starbases. Supported by 14 local shipyards, 2 local Cap shipyards, max trade income from 40+ planets.
I enjoy a challenge, but this balance seems a shade over the top. How did the enemy create another lvl 10 Titan just minutes after losing one? How can you win if you cannot kill the thing if you throw literally everything at it?
This experince of Rebelion has made me reluctant to invest in starting yet another game, only to met with this stalemate again, there is no joy in meeting this brick wall you cannot beat. I have no problem losing or winning, but give me a fair fight.
Titans get rebuilt at current level.. so it makes you want to not Feed them, and not let them grow.. they are game enders and if you weren't building the right fleet or pushing hard enough it's your own fault.
You do see some level 10 titans and they are almost impossible to kill, but you can kill them, but expect to take heavy losses.
(go bombers)
But see heres the thing, you're playing single player and just expanding.. and playing sims style, if the ai has a level 10 titan it means you didnt hurt it enough, which means your playstyle is wrong juice down the ai if you dont want to fight..
but dont complain about balance... i will hear none of it. It'll also crash if you load up a map with hundreds and hundreds of planets or just have so many units of the field.
Why don't you try to play online where you actually learn how to play the game? Invest time? it takes about 30 mins in an average game to win, 10-30 to lose..
1. Known issue, being worked on.
2. Known issue, being worked on.
3. As ussrAvA said titans keep their levels and xp as they are rebuilt. There is a titan that actually has to die to use its lvl 6 Ultimate so that maybe why that mechanic is there. As for tactics bombers and capital ships work best. Seems how you are TEC I recommend the Dunov as it has abilities that can mess with the titan. Plus a little judo maneuvering works wonders. If the titan is attacking you then feel free to attack the enemy somewhere else. It will take a little effort to learn the multitasking but its well worth the effort.
2OP: you need to learn about abilities of enemy titans - that way you will know their strong and wek spots.
OK, so Titans are rebuilt at the level they are lost at, that explains that.
The AI is set at normal, and the game had 1 human player and 3 AI players, and the enemy lvl 10 Titan was built up between AI vs AI battles, before I came across this AI player.
The map has 80 planets around one sun, and this has never been an issue before in Sins original, or the 3 subsequent DLC I have played or hours and hours over the last few years.
The original Entrenchment Sins I had running at over 160+ planets for a test run, while it ground my PC to a snails pace, it did not bomb out, in fact it was exceptionally resilient. This was a couple of years ago on a computer of that era. I have yet to test this one fully.
I do not play online for my own reasons, be assured that I have had this game in one form or another since the original release. As for investing time, there has been no shortage of that on this best 4X game that I have ever played, and there have been a few games that I have tried, tested in my 25+ year career as an IT engineer. And from that you should tell I'm in the top end of my 40 years.
Be assured that I will certainly try alternative methods at destroying this Titan, though I still say it is too strong when you throw everything at it a well build 40+ planet empire has at it, every possible ship slot, my Titan [8] and 2 star bases, the replacement resources 250K credits buys, if that is not heavy loses then what is, yet the enemy Titan falls from 18k to 16k health, and then keeps simply regretting it, repeat cycle.
I presume you are a developer of Sins to be able to quote on balance not being an issue?
No he is no developer. He just takes arrogance whenever single players talk about the balance of the game.
All you can really do is spam out bombers by the hundreds. That'll crack pretty much anything.
Vasari Rebel Titan is the nastiest one of them all for that. DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT use frigates of any type on this one to keep this from happening. And use Dunovs with EMP blast. Messes with the Titan's abilities.
Ignore ussrAvA's comment on that please. There are some game balance issues and the devs are working to do what they can.
Titans scale much better through the game than any other ship in all of Sins, which is the intent of the developers...
I am currently waiting for some kind of fix that will make it so that bombers won't be the only thing that can kill a titan...
Titans rebuild at current level. Wow, I actually didn't know that (though that does explain why that level 4 titan kept coming back). Handy, considering I just lost mine in the singleplayer game I have running.
Some Titans actually become stronger the more ships you throw at it, like the Vasari Rebel titan, which can heal itself by feeding off of your ships, the more you have, the more it heals.
The Eradica won't get stronger by sending more ships at it, but sending anything more than the necessary firepower to bring it down, preferably bombers and capital ships, will only allow it to deal more damage to your forces before you bring it down.
Don't suppose you could upload your save file, I'd like to try my hand against such an unstoppable ai. I'll even post a video should I succeed in beating it showing how I did it.
Thank You, some very interesting ideas being thrown into the pot.
I have a save point, just before the second battle kicks off, so I shall try a change in stratergy, on the lines suggested above from members posting constructive critism to my experiences.
It is obvious that some people here have far more knowledge about individual ships abilities than I do, so I have to ask, where did you get this inside knowledge from, am I missing a manual, a wiki site, as it would crtainly be of benefit to have a little more knowledge.
Seems that I was not the only one who was unaware that Titans come back at the same level they were destroyed on.
Again, Thank You to those whom replied with useful information and/or critism.
Just have to play every faction yourself. There is a wiki but its been known to get things wrong from time to time, but its better than nothing I suppose.
https://www.sinsofasolarempire.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
Along the lines as Rebel44 said, basically play as all the races and you'll learn the strengths and weaknesses of their units.
Like If you are Advent and you are facing late game Vasari, then you must have all your culture research done and be fighting in your own culture to minimize their phase missle-shield negation tech.
TEC capital fleet is the strongest when going against titan.If you dont feel like spamming bomber's to bring that titan down - build a cap fleet made of 4-5 kols (gauss rail gun at maximum with the most antimatter upgrades possible,that includes culture)and 4 -5 dunov's with emp blast.
If you dont like anything of the above then Ragnarov titan snipe ability will do the job.
Or you deplete its antimatter, sure it still hits like a truck but it can't use abilities... and which titan were you fighting? OK sure i don't like single players who complain about balance because then haven't matured in the ways of killing stuff.
I quote balance because i've been a gamer for a long time, i'm no dev but there are only two things i consider underbalanced in the game, vas reb moving starbase.. and vas loyal eco spot rushing planet eater and then eating allthe planets in the middle of a 4s/5s game.
Both things seem slghtly broken. Vas reb more so since if you press a Vas loyal rushing planet strip he'll buckle.
Back on topic... Kortuls/Dunovs. win or a couple radiance.. a good fleet mix is require but firgates and cruisers die to titans.. its how it works, you've gotta remove the AM or the target.
You learn the game from playing online.. you can learn it playing the ai, but i feel you miss things that you would otherwise get raped by online, then you can put them into practice. Also online play will give you more haste.. make you think a little faster, you play the ai... it doesn't really change... play it once and its enough to know you can beat it, but online play is ever evolving.
Sure there are some well used and dependable strats, but there are always those who do their best against the norm, namely KoK spamming kodiaks.. first. Viable? not in my mind but it works on most players haha
All of these comments should do the trick. But also, if you are using Tec then get a group of corvettes in there to reduce the titans armor. Spamming bombers with corvettes will crack most titans pretty fast
spamming corvettes? feeeeeeed the titan more meals, they go pop unless you have armour pacts
If you want to see all the things in the game, run the Dev.exe, which is located in the same directory as the normal Sins Rebellion .exe...here is a thread that should help you make use of the dev.exe....
In it, you can spawn any ships you want and see what abilities they have, how they work, etc...it allows you to try things with no consequences, and allows you to see stuff that would otherwise take a lot of game time to get too.....
Thank You again for the feedback;
ussrAvA - no offence was intended by my comment, and I hope none was taken.
Online playing for me was spoilt by the few who cheated, messed about, etc, though this bad experience was not on any Sins servers. Maybe things are better now a days?
Seleuceia - useful snippet of knowledge, will look into that - cheers
Back to topic - I have managed to take the said Titan down, using the advice given here, though I wonder about it being valid method, but it works, bomber swam does the trick. Tactics or Exploit? But that is another discussion subject. Just as in real life battles, one has to adjust tatctics to overcome battlefield secnarios, only there is no save point like in Sins.
Still a great game, and obviously has many a challenge to put to me yet. Who can ask for more......
Update - While bomber swarm around my own planet, with various backup worked, however I cannot dent this Titan around his homeworld, though 100+ carriers go in and run rings around the gravity well to avoid destruction as long as possible, and keeping the bombers onto the Titan, I cannot get its health below 16000, cannot keep enough bombers afloat in the battle, loosing too many carriers too quickly.
I shall try another option another evening, will rush in a load of cruisers to take down the supporting vessels in his gravity well, to the point I can substain a carrier fleet in there to deal damage onto the Titan.
Cannot complain, as this is becoming a challenge and a half, certainly tough.
I'm not an expert, but is it possible the titan is being repaired by repair bays? Try to snipe those with your bombers first or maybe even have a few torpedo cruisers along for the ride.
Glad things are working out. I wouldn't call it an exploit to bomber spam. A level 10 titan should be a fearsome thing to deal with, especially in home territory. Anyway, many times you need to craft your fleet to most effectively counter what the enemy fleet has.
It also helps IMMENSELY to know what abilities the other titan has. Some like a high level VL can eat your frigates, while a high level AL can mind control your frigates pretty quickly. You either need to shut those abilities down or avoid them completely or it's not even a remotely fair fight.
Finally I take the planet and the Titan dies.
Eventually succeeded by pouring carriers into the gravity well, and setting the bomber swarm to destroy the supporting fleet, then turn on the Titan. 1½ hours of battle later it falls, by keeping my carrier force restocked, circling the gravity well trying to keep out of trouble, meanwhile I managed to get some starbases built with selfdestruct, so when his support fleet came round on the merry-go-round I was giving then, the starbase blew and took most of it out. While this happening I managed to sneak a cloniser vessel in and take the planet, which was put to laying out a minefield as fast as it could in the path of the enemy fleet.
So now I have the planet, sent a scout out immediately to the next planet, and there ALREADY is a level 10 Tital, fully developed starbase, and a growing fleet awaiting me. So the grind begins again, as I shall have to do this all again hoping that he will run out of resources and this vicious circle can end. Certainly a challenge, but rebuilding Titans striaght to Level 10 is a bit unfair, there seems no penalty in loosing one, so I shall just send mine in, after all, what have I too loose, my economy is so strong I can build then 10 a penny.
Great battle though, and satisfying to finally have worked out a way round and win.
In conclusion, the balance is perhaps not as bad as I first thought, I just needed to learn a new trick to deal with these newcomers, the powerful Titans, so the write ups during the development of this game were very true, that Titans would and could change the whole face of a war. Not sure though about when rebuilding a Titan it is producded at the same level as the one just lost.
Again my thanks to one and all whom took the time to read, and advise or comment.
All titans come back at the level they were destroyed at. This includes yours, its part of the game mechanics, like hero units in some other RTS games. I usually finish the game before the AI gets them close to that high, though I suppose in large free for all games that might be avoidable.
Need to find that Titan foundry and take it out.....
Send in 400 scouts at once with explosives. Spread out once past effing defenses and blow the crap out of the titan factory
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