Hey,
Games after games, the tech tree remains the same. Sure, depending of your nation, your research strategy will differ, but still... 'same old things' feeling appears rapidly.
A few game have tried to break the mould by proposing slightly changing tech tree, for each game. For example the costs between 2 items differ. Or bonus A is given in tech X in a game, but in tech Y in another. Or bonus A is slightly less interesting in game X than in game Y, but another one is stronger.
There are wider possibilities though. Branching between techs are not always the same, you plug 'intermediary' techs between them, and sometime you have to research tech A to get tech C or tech B to get tech C.
Last possibility, 2 minor bonus are exclusives, sometime one appears in a game, another time it's the other... But the code algorithms knows how to compensate, so that the gameplay is not crippled. If you need a tech that gives +1 prestige, then sometime it can be given from a warfare tech (say for example it is called 'greater glory' and you need to kill 20 units to trigger it), sometime it is a civilization tech.
Oh and by the way, how about having some techs needing more than plain and dumb research points to unlock? Say I have this military tech 'Greater Glory' that needs x research points... but also a total of 20 units killed on map, to unlock itself?
Be imaginative Kael. For now this research tree functions as all research trees I have seen since I play PC games (so some 25 years ago...)
I wouldn't play with random techs. The tech tree in FE isn't plush enough to support a random element, in my opinion. If I choose one tech to research, it takes a long time, and it's just the one I want for the specific direction I'm going in. This is in contrast to, say, SMAC or MOO II, where I can more or less select the direction of research, and settle for whatever I receive.
I have no problems with any code that gives you random techs, but Kongdej, I'd want an option to go for chosen techs. Just my opinion.
Well, wait, SMAC is fully customizable. You can set it anyway you want. In fact, you can have:
But Smac's strenght lies even more solidly in the tech tree itself, which, I remind you all, looks like this:
http://www.game-point.net/misc/smacx-fixed-techtree-big-1.pdf
In Smac each technology can branch out even to different fields, depending on the meaning and potential of the discovered technology: that makes the tree alive, meaningful and always interesting, not lastly because you can "navigate" through it in so many different ways.
I've been arguing about the blandness of Ewom's research tree since, well, Ewom (you know, step 1, step 2, and so on), and I like others have been dismissed like the Prophet of Doom. Not that my opinion should deserve special consideration, but I must say I'm not too surprised to see such a thread emerge now. I fear it's late now anyway, maybe something to consider for the sequel...
lol nice post MastroegoI remember Alpha centauri's tech tree, but even so just looking at it visually gives me a headache from all the possibilities
Another version to the random tech could be the approach from alpha centauri with "Blind Research".. I actually pretty much liked that feature from alpha centauri, because I never felt screwed over when choosing a playstyle, because I was never "not able" to build something, it just might take a loong time before my researchers actually invented the proper tools to do it right.
If we are going to have random research, Id very much like if the basic parts of the research tree be given for free (or remain non random) so I can always use bows... I do not like random research though, and I never will...Even the occasional finding of a new magical spellbook in Master of Magic felt like it just broke the game...
Sincerely~ Kongde
@Kongdej
Can you explain "broke the game" for me. You and I obviously play different ways.
I'm a sadist that likes to lose, and am virtually getting my butt handed to me on expert. It sure would be nice to venture out and do one of the quest surrounding me (that I first have to research) in order to get a chance at finding a random tech that no one else has, just to give me an edge.
At the current I'm holed up in my one remaining city with its wood walls, and for some dumb reason I'm researching "Animal Husbandry".
p.s. GalCiv had a check box for random events. I think you even had to check it to turn it on.
What I purpose would not change how you want to play the game. You still have the normal tech trees (non-random) so you can plan out your tech research. The techs that are found through random quest and such would only be (extra bonus tech) to spice up the boring tech progression a bit. But when you find them you don't have to use them if you don't want. You just don't start the game banking on getting that one bonus tech from said quest.
If you keep the game going long enough to complete the Epic quests, it relatively easy to research the entire tech tree in FE. You can continue refining your knowledge but, as others have said, it's boring. It would be nice if the game generated a unique tech tree based on faction and the path chosen for the sovereign but, I accept that development may have progressed to the point where that is not practical. At some point the player should be required to make choices that will limit their options for the rest of the game. Right now, I can build everything and research everything without caring why. Simply building enough strength to undertake the Epic quests gives me plenty of time.
its difficult to explain cause its just my poor broken feelings that feels like it doesn't match with the other game mechanics. (or flavour, but thats just a part of the flavour that I imagine differently in a mere moment).
The fact that I got new research in earth magic, which blocks my spellbook from researching fire spells (called chaos in MoM, but you get the idea). was annoying, the fact that I could have gotten more chaos books than I could start with (Think you started with 12 if you went all out on one magical school), and then went and found a book of chaos, then you would essentially have rolled the lucky dice of winning, I remember vaguely having tons of spellbooks in one category would give some epic spells.Another one is the "balance" since it now became a race to wipe out every single monsters den so you would have a bigger chance to loot the all powerfull spellbooks and traits, dont forget traits.Speaking of traits, it felt entirely wrong to start a faction with all life-magic, and divine power trait (All my temples pray to the divines of some sort) and find a book about "Infernal Power" (Now all my temples pray to the... oh wait.. Guess all my temples are confused )
It might be a personal feeling since there was no MP in MoM so there was little balance to think about in this sense, I just did not like that part.
PS. Im not a sadist when im playing games, but I can accept losses (if they're not dumb.. Like me wandering an army into a "low" power creature, not knowing how that creature performs in combat, and that creature just mauls the army to shreds )But I like winning, that is said, but I do like when the game is challenging too (I play on hard with very few reloads, meaby 1 or 2 throughout a game, not accounting for bugs and crashes ofc).
Sincerely~ Kongdej
My preferance is to have 'interactive research'. I'll explain...and use Gal Civ 2 as an example of opposition since Stardock has a lot of experiance with that game.
First off, each new tech should IMPACT the game. I really like how you can research 'swordsmen' and 'axemen', each with unique abilities, instead of researching 'swordsmen +1' and 'swordmen +2'. The later is completely boring and without thought. GalCiv2 unfortunately took that approach with pretty much all their tech and, imo, it made for random tech growth as I really didn't care what was in the queue next.
Second off, I love the three tech trees, HOWEVER, I don't like how linear they are. There should be branches depicting a 'greater tech' down a deadend branch or a 'lesser tech' down the main branch. This would breed all sorts of decision to the game, having to weigh out tree advancement versus side bonus. It's done a little bit in the tech tree.....'warg riders' I believe one is called. Excellant example...BUT how good are the warg riders? Is it worth delaying the main branch for? Lot's of balancing needs to be worked into getting the right tree.
Third off, tech trees NEED dynamic prerequisites imo. Not just 'you have the tech prior...so now you can build the tech next'. That's not enough. There should be cross-branching between the three trees in some areas....such that if you want to persue certain strategies you need to focus in more than one type of research. You also NEED in-game prerequisites to be meet. Maybe a tech can't be researched unless your champ has reached a certain level....or until you have X cities....or perhaps until you've obtained a dragon's nest or unicorn grove or obtained a magic source.....stuff like that: RPG elements that push you along the game's story arc and open up tech possibilities along the way.
That's what needed imo.
Keep up the good work!
Still trying to figure out why, it just sounds prohibitive because you can prohibit by this feature, and not because it is good for the game. Just a thought, nothing harmful meant though.
Perhaps it might be prohibitive, then again, it does make for a more dynamic game. Naturally, nations that are unable to advance themselves as a nation will also be limited technologically....but isn't that realistic? It won't completely cut the nation off from growth; just in some ways. Nor would it completely restrict technolgical advancement....just some key points along the tree.
I think it could easily be designed for added balance and dynamics to the game instead of simple linear tech trees. I never really liked the 'tech points' = new tech. Takes the importance out of the experiance....
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