Rebellion.. The Fourth, and Final Expansion for SotSE....
For all that do not know what TSOP is, or have not been keeping up with current events at all for the last four years. Check this topic. The Original TSOP for Trinity topic.
TSOP was originally created to fix the very annoying 2 gig hard coded crash bug that plagued Trinity. IT WORKED. Without changing any game play aspects of Sins. Without changing the quality of the game itself. During the time we worked on TSOP we found many bugs, and errors that the Dev's missed over time, or that were created with the relentless Sins patches of the past, and new expansions. With the Diplomacy 1.32-1.34 series of patches some elements of TSOP: Trinity were incorporated into Diplomacy. Mainly the Errors, Typo's, and Particle fix's. We are all human, and we all make mistakes. A company as small as Ironclad was bound to make some mistakes. Especially on their first game. I want to make it clear once again that this project in no way is a disrespect of Ironclad, or Stardock. Quite the opposite. You guys made a great game! There is no denying that. We wouldn't be here right now if you did make a bad game.
The goal of TSOP:R Is to add what was NOT incorporated from the Diplomacy TSOP incorporation. We will Bug Hunt, Look for errors, and typos that were not seen before, and Fix it. Just like we did for Trinity. We will convert the TGA formatted textures to the highest quality DDS format possible (This includes the UI textures). Just like we did for Trinity. We will try to put back into Rebellion what was taken out from Trinity (the varying planet types). We will also look into optimizing the new rebellion shadow system some more (if it is at all possible).
Rebellion reduced the size of the ship textures (mainly all of the frigates) to the next size down (by a power of 2). So frigates that had a 2048 resolution texture now have a 1024 resolution texture in Rebellion. Which is brilliant, It is hardly noticeable, and it made lots of room for more Rebellion features. TSOP:R will expand upon that, and bring back the "Strategic Particle Texture Reduction" of TSOP Trinity. There is much more we can do to optimize if we look for it. However, the goal is to optimize without changing the quality of the game, or if there is to be a loss of quality. make it as minimal as humanly possible. Just like we did for Trinity.
We also plan on bringing the Trinity versions of TSOP up to date.
All of this, and more that TSOP:R will do will free up more Ram, and improve your Graphic Performance. So you should be able to run Rebellion on a slightly lower end system, or a not so hot video card. CPU lag is still, and will always be a problem. We tried to deal with it by reducing poly counts on meshes in Trinity. That failed. Poly counts surprisingly have very little impact in Sins. It is the sheer number of units on the map that a Single Core of your CPU has to deal with that causes the lag. The only way i can think of to deal with the Late Game CPU Lag issue is to remove, and/or lower the number of units on the map. We WILL NOT do that. We WILL NOT change any game play, or balancing aspect of Rebellion. Just like we did not change it for Trinity. Let the developers deal with the Game Play, and Balance. We only wish to improve upon the game itself. We Bring..
The Sins Optimization Project: Rebellion
So.. Here we are once again..
TSOP for Rebellion is more of a Graphic Optimization mod than it was for Trinity. Many of the issues that plagued Trinity were fixed by Ironclad/Stardock for Rebellion. So there is no need for any GameInfo folders any more. Also the 2 gig crash issue that TSOP was originally created for has also been fixed. TSOP:R is more intended as a performance improvement mod than anything else.
TSOP, and TSOP:R is an open community project. Anyone who wishes to contribute is welcome to do so. Also anyone who wishes to use TSOP/TSOP:R in their mods, or other projects are also more than welcome to do so. No Questions Asked. This project is for you. Use it!
Do not run TSOP with other mods. TSOP is intended to be a Stand Alone mod. Running other mods with TSOP. Especially Graphic Enhancement mods. Will defeat the entire purpose of TSOP. TSOP is intended to improve your Vanilla Sins experience. Other mods like Distant Stars have incorporated elements of TSOP into their mods.
I will ask that we please DO NOT discuss Multi Core support, 64 bit, or LAA on this topic. It is a dead horse issue that has been beaten down so many times that people are beating the dust on the ground where the dead horse was laying. Its not gonna happen! EVER! The Dev's said its not gonna happen. DO NOT DISCUSS THE ISSUE!!... please.
TSOP:R Release 1.1
All mesh, and particle bad file path names fixed.
Mesh fix's (Unnecessary team color entry's removed)
GameInfo files fixed by Stardock/Ironclad so it is no longer needed in TSOP
All particle, and UI textures converted to DDS format. Some very large texture resolutions reduced.
Optimized Sounds, Music ported from TSOP Trinity.
Optimized Trade ship, Strike Craft, and Constructor meshes ported from TSOP Trinity.
Game holds steady at 1.6-1.7 gigs ram usage using Random Vast Competitive map. Max settings for everything. 9 vicious AI's Results may differ for you depending on your system. No Dev.exe errors were present. No crashes. Late game lag still an issue, but game is playable much longer than vanilla.
See various "Fixed" text's for complete list of changes, and fixes.
Thank you Myfist0 for ModDB link
http://forum.mycosm.com/discussion/45/the-use-of-dds-textures-for-optimal-performance
Pretty much meshes with my understanding and my viewpoints on it.
I have no issues with that discussion as the question was framed from:
"Could you make a few comments and/or suggestions on the use of .DDS textures for models and terrain images? "
DDS should always be used in this case.
Also, we don't know how IC loads the textures associated with the brush files. Stardock's and IC's stance appears to be flat that converting all the tga's to dds won't result in any associated memory savings.
We're optimizing the engine further as we're able. Turning things into .dds files won't help anything since once the textures go into memory, they're all the same size after conversion. We're not reworking any of the existing models except to potentially look better.
...
DDS is stored in the GPU and read in its compressed state, unlike png or jpeg which is uncompressed. TGA (unless your using RLE compression) is already uncompressed but large file size.
And I repeat, the GPU is capable of reading the texture in this state. There is of course some loss of information as a result, but the difference is imperceptible in most circumstances. It is recommended to always use block compression of some kind, except where the texture is to be used as a user-interface element or contains text.
So again, I do all the large UI stuff in DDS (DXT5 no mip maps, 4mb tga to 1mb dds), but the stuff I listed before remains TGA, can still use dds for all but the smalll stuff can be less compressed or not block compressed (DXT1, I think) for quality.
I am still not sure though if the tgas are in the system ram or GPU ram or what difference that makes.
Oh, and never rely on the guy selling you the car about its quality, take it to a mechanic. The seller is a business and will only do the work required to sell the product with the least amount of costs or hours of labor.
So far so good. Keep it constructive.
This pretty much confirms why we switched to DDS. That is a good question if the TGA texture is loaded into the GPU memory, or physical memory. I would like to see more thoughts on this.
IC have their own reasons for using TGA. Obviously it is for the picture quality. Which i will grant TGA is better, and yes uses the same memory loaded for a UI texture. If a sins UI texture is DDS does it load differently than TGA? If TGA is so much better, Then make a case as to why it is better. What would compel us to switch the UI back to TGA? Other than just a slightly prettier picture.
I have done many tests with this using the "Worst Textures" listing in the DEV. One of the worst is RaceLogos at over 8mb tga, turn that to dds and it is gone from the worst textures list. Also when I started the UI in SOA I put all the UI for each race on its own 2048x2048 tga and once in dds it was also gone from the list. When I tried TGA RLE compression it got uncompressed and stayed a worst texture.
except where the texture is to be used as a user-interface element or contains text.
This part of the article is still recommending dds but without compression.
Side note: The engine prefers DDS, so if you have 2 the same textures in the Textures dir, one TGA and one DDS, it will use the DDS without adding the extension on the brush. If you have the 2 types and want it to use TGA it will need the extension.
Interesting.
An uncompressed DDS such as RaceLogos is still 8meg after conversion. I have no issue with using uncompressed DDS for UI elements such as buttons or icons as suggested as the quality is preserved. I'm not as concerned about the backdrops more just the buttons and icons personally.
Here's a nice summary of the different DDS format options: http://poopinmymouth.com/tutorial/dds_types.pdf
Excellent, that saves me testing the different formats. for the Zombie
Yes, the RaceLogos is a bad one. Which is why, like other parts of the UI, I remake the sheets. All the large icons go on a 1024x1024 sheet (RaceLogosLg) that can be DDS, the 3 other sets of small icons go on a 512x512 (RaceLogos) that remains TGA, and doing that saved me 2mb without even compressing and loads of empty space left on the small sheet.
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/173/racelogoslg.png
Bottom half is the SOA militias you will soon be facing
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/1686/racelogos.png
RaceLogos.tga org - 8,193 kb
RaceLogos.tga new - 1,025 kbRaceLogosLg.tga - 4,097 kb
If I dds the large file that is a 6mb savings, and basically every UI sheet is the same with wasted space, unused textures on a sheet, and massive over spacing.
What you've done is really the best compromise in terms of optimization.
There's also a few anomalies in the core Rebellion Textures.
psi starbase normal map is still 21 meg
the back drop front end (IIRC) is not compressed in rebellion though it was in the other versions and expansions.
might be a few others like that, I just haven't done a deep dive to look at them all.
Hi Major,
Thanks for your mod.
Been using it for 2 days now
Just wondering, is it just me or anyone else. My achievements always restarts everytime i play a game..
Something i did wrong?
Thanks...
If its Rebellion, that's a steam problem, I don't know how a mod could do that. If another version, perhaps your achievements file in your settings folder is set to read only?
Hmm, it's Rebellion..
Ok,. I will check around again, guess its just my version not working properly.
Thanks mate.
The only thing changed about achievements in TSOPR was the texture itself, and it was only converted to DDS. So this is a vanilla game issue. Send a report to the dev's. This isnt the first time ive seen somone post of this problem. It has been posted on other topics.
Hey Major--it would be great to start a Steam forum update thread for TSOPR so it gets maximum exposure. Just a suggestion--sort of a developers features/change log and downloads link post.
I'd also suggest a forum size, square graphic logo for easy recognition.
I don't go to the steam forums. However if you want to make a TSOP topic there, update it with the DL links, and point them this way I have no problem with that.
I'll do that.
I realize at present Steam and the forums are pretty separate but the more known and integrated TSOPR is with the player base overall, the more likely it will be to get recognition and usefulness on ICO.
The Steam forums are pretty nascent for Sins right now but it's where the bulk of the players are coming from.
Noted,thanks for the info.
I haven't had a chance to test this myself yet, but can you all test, and make sure this works in patch 1.04. When the reference files for 1.04 are released ill update.
You mean you still don't know how to use Convert_Data after all this time Major?
Anyways, I would bet that something won't work, and since they took a few of your changes couldn't you exclude some files to reduce the mod size?
gameplay.constants changed, deleted from mod to test further,
new line in each of planet and planet shield entities just before 'shieldmeshname' (new line being looked for is 'extraScuttleTimeOnStrip'
new line(s) in starbases before 'mass' line 1 label being looked for is 'HyperspaceChargingSoundID'
2 label being looked for is 'HyperspaceTravelSoundID'
'LabsPerCapitalShip' could not be converted to enum
these are just the errors thrown during the load of the opti mod.
harpo
We need to update this thread: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/427240
I like how one of the logos is the Ubuntu logo.
Maybe that is what's chasing the Vasari!
Damn what i was afraid of.. To answer your question. Well its not the weekend yet. Cant ConvertData files when i am at a clients house rebuilding their bathroom 12-15 hours a day. Then dealing with RL stuff at home too.. like laundry, cooking dinner, u know general stuff a wife should be doing.. oh wait i dont have a wife. Basically i have to wait till i get a day off before i do any kind of mod related stuff.
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