Rebellion.. The Fourth, and Final Expansion for SotSE....
For all that do not know what TSOP is, or have not been keeping up with current events at all for the last four years. Check this topic. The Original TSOP for Trinity topic.
TSOP was originally created to fix the very annoying 2 gig hard coded crash bug that plagued Trinity. IT WORKED. Without changing any game play aspects of Sins. Without changing the quality of the game itself. During the time we worked on TSOP we found many bugs, and errors that the Dev's missed over time, or that were created with the relentless Sins patches of the past, and new expansions. With the Diplomacy 1.32-1.34 series of patches some elements of TSOP: Trinity were incorporated into Diplomacy. Mainly the Errors, Typo's, and Particle fix's. We are all human, and we all make mistakes. A company as small as Ironclad was bound to make some mistakes. Especially on their first game. I want to make it clear once again that this project in no way is a disrespect of Ironclad, or Stardock. Quite the opposite. You guys made a great game! There is no denying that. We wouldn't be here right now if you did make a bad game.
The goal of TSOP:R Is to add what was NOT incorporated from the Diplomacy TSOP incorporation. We will Bug Hunt, Look for errors, and typos that were not seen before, and Fix it. Just like we did for Trinity. We will convert the TGA formatted textures to the highest quality DDS format possible (This includes the UI textures). Just like we did for Trinity. We will try to put back into Rebellion what was taken out from Trinity (the varying planet types). We will also look into optimizing the new rebellion shadow system some more (if it is at all possible).
Rebellion reduced the size of the ship textures (mainly all of the frigates) to the next size down (by a power of 2). So frigates that had a 2048 resolution texture now have a 1024 resolution texture in Rebellion. Which is brilliant, It is hardly noticeable, and it made lots of room for more Rebellion features. TSOP:R will expand upon that, and bring back the "Strategic Particle Texture Reduction" of TSOP Trinity. There is much more we can do to optimize if we look for it. However, the goal is to optimize without changing the quality of the game, or if there is to be a loss of quality. make it as minimal as humanly possible. Just like we did for Trinity.
We also plan on bringing the Trinity versions of TSOP up to date.
All of this, and more that TSOP:R will do will free up more Ram, and improve your Graphic Performance. So you should be able to run Rebellion on a slightly lower end system, or a not so hot video card. CPU lag is still, and will always be a problem. We tried to deal with it by reducing poly counts on meshes in Trinity. That failed. Poly counts surprisingly have very little impact in Sins. It is the sheer number of units on the map that a Single Core of your CPU has to deal with that causes the lag. The only way i can think of to deal with the Late Game CPU Lag issue is to remove, and/or lower the number of units on the map. We WILL NOT do that. We WILL NOT change any game play, or balancing aspect of Rebellion. Just like we did not change it for Trinity. Let the developers deal with the Game Play, and Balance. We only wish to improve upon the game itself. We Bring..
The Sins Optimization Project: Rebellion
So.. Here we are once again..
TSOP for Rebellion is more of a Graphic Optimization mod than it was for Trinity. Many of the issues that plagued Trinity were fixed by Ironclad/Stardock for Rebellion. So there is no need for any GameInfo folders any more. Also the 2 gig crash issue that TSOP was originally created for has also been fixed. TSOP:R is more intended as a performance improvement mod than anything else.
TSOP, and TSOP:R is an open community project. Anyone who wishes to contribute is welcome to do so. Also anyone who wishes to use TSOP/TSOP:R in their mods, or other projects are also more than welcome to do so. No Questions Asked. This project is for you. Use it!
Do not run TSOP with other mods. TSOP is intended to be a Stand Alone mod. Running other mods with TSOP. Especially Graphic Enhancement mods. Will defeat the entire purpose of TSOP. TSOP is intended to improve your Vanilla Sins experience. Other mods like Distant Stars have incorporated elements of TSOP into their mods.
I will ask that we please DO NOT discuss Multi Core support, 64 bit, or LAA on this topic. It is a dead horse issue that has been beaten down so many times that people are beating the dust on the ground where the dead horse was laying. Its not gonna happen! EVER! The Dev's said its not gonna happen. DO NOT DISCUSS THE ISSUE!!... please.
TSOP:R Release 1.1
All mesh, and particle bad file path names fixed.
Mesh fix's (Unnecessary team color entry's removed)
GameInfo files fixed by Stardock/Ironclad so it is no longer needed in TSOP
All particle, and UI textures converted to DDS format. Some very large texture resolutions reduced.
Optimized Sounds, Music ported from TSOP Trinity.
Optimized Trade ship, Strike Craft, and Constructor meshes ported from TSOP Trinity.
Game holds steady at 1.6-1.7 gigs ram usage using Random Vast Competitive map. Max settings for everything. 9 vicious AI's Results may differ for you depending on your system. No Dev.exe errors were present. No crashes. Late game lag still an issue, but game is playable much longer than vanilla.
See various "Fixed" text's for complete list of changes, and fixes.
Thank you Myfist0 for ModDB link
Easy, that is if I do release it ...
Not really into doing SD's work for them, posting this more as a critique and show them how it should have been done in the first place. Just be glad you have me on the SOA team as I did this all for our mod, 10 player huge multis 10 hrs in and no lag and RAM to spare. Get me the org textures for our models and I will work on improving them.
Ill see what i can do about the SoA 2 masters. I can tell you most of the trekmods stuff is at max res. But my ships i should have masters that are double the res. Cant help you with the 3rd party stuff. I got those as is. When i imported the models i kept the original resolutions. Most of the stuff basically needs to be re-textured from scratch. Just haven't had any free time, or motivation to get off my ass and do it.
You will share this with me at least right
So far
Next pain in the ass, Race_Logos_Lg.dds 1024x768 769 kb. Will reorganize the small ones to fit in a tga.
adding this to the list
going to start adding Trinity ship textures back today
EDIT: And here is the UI_RaceLogos_Sm.tga
Now over 60 mb saved textures. I will probably be close to 100mb when I'm done.
Ya , the Events had 4 pics each but 3 were exactly the same, also the buttons cursor-over and focused were exactly the same.
myfist0, do you think that these optimizations have any sort of negative effect on the quality of the textures? If not, then do you think that Starclad might incorporate these into the next patch so as to free up some memory space to make it possible to make a second DLC?
The only textures that will have any slight loss are the larger ones I am moving to the dds sheet from loss-less tga sheets, all the small icons will remain tga. For me, this is to get back the trinity quality ship and structures, a blurry scout ship you can't zoom in on is more important to fix than some damned piece of UI that most will not notice the change.
I also have to fix every icon on the button_research2 sets, not only did they waste 8mb of space, every button is to small and off place
The right is the org sheet,white box shows there location and yellow shows what is should be, right is my fix, with proper button highlights added.
This is so freaking Brilliant! Read my PM Fist.
Any ETA on this? I'm holding out on rebuilding my mod for 1.5 until this gets updated.
I haven't had much free time to do anything with TSOP yet. TBH there isn't much to do except fix some textures. I am waiting to see if Myfist0 will let me use his UI fix's.
What you can do is use the old TSOP as a guide for your mod. Just look over the files, and mimic what was done for your mod update.
What's going to be in the next update?
Probably more of the same unless i find some glaring discrepancies in the 1.5, and DLC update. I got me some free time coming up this week (shock, and awe). Ill see what i can do to get it started then.
Excluding core rule change mods, I find many mods before V1.5 can compatible with the latest patch.
But some mods will have little glitches, as far as I know, most are texture error.
So I think the most different part should be textures.
Since TSOP rebellion is mainly graphic optimizations i dont see any major issues yet. The changes in 1.5, and DLC is pretty optimized as it is now. So ill be looking for stuff like the issues we had in Trinity.
does that mean this works with 1.52?
If it worked in 1.51, it will work in 1.52
ok thank you, now the question is should i use this? (Vanilla of course... but with my No super weapon mod) or has this been implemented into the game now?, sorry but i haven't been following sins for quite some time and just came back.
For what its worth, it seems to work fine, but it does screw up the Planet DLC... i get allot of String not found issues.
Yea this hasn't been updated in a while, and i apologize for that. I just don't have the free time at the moment to do anything with this, or any other project. However this is an open community project. If anyone else wants to make an update by all means do so. Feel free to add on, or update to the new version of rebellion, and dlc. I was hoping fist0 would share his UI updates. I made TSOP for the Sins community. The Community should take over this.
I would just like to say thank you for making the game playable on large AI maps, as you said lags at end game, but that is what it is.
Your mod has brought new life to this for me, just played 6 hour cruel/annihilation map on huge, was great fun, missed the planet upgrades that came in 1.52 the choice to social or economic, and the string not found for the new planets is a bit annoying.
Overall a 9.5/10 for me, a couple of quirks to be able to play large AI maps is well worth it to me.
I am streaming my destruction http://twitch.tv/linflas
join in on the game, make a custom run, would love to have a few that would like to play!
you can message me on twtich.
Thanks again, if you have a moment to tweak it for the new planets, and planetary upgrades, would be a very happy camper.
Thanks,
James B.
Like i said before i wish i had the free time to update TSOP for the latest patch, and DLC. I just don't see it happening anytime soon. I invite the sins community to take over this project, because at present i just cant do anything with it. All i ask is that the community keep it optimizations only. No game play changes.
i'm not sure if you're still taking suggestions on strike-craft or not, but I was complaining to my friends about this (Just bought it a few weeks back)...
I was thinking, why didn't Stardock just make strike-craft condense as you make more of them? If you make 15 sets of strike-craft, instead of having 30 ships, why not have 15? If you make 200, why not have 200 or fewer? And instead of just dividing them up and buffing them in every conceivable way, make them remain at the same hp, but build much faster and move faster as you make more, making 1 set of strike-craft would have 100% hp but would have more damage and move slightly faster. Building 200 would hypothetically keep them at 200 and they'd have twice the speed and damage or condense them to 100 ships but they'd move 4 times as fast and have 4 times the damage and build at 2 - 4 times the rate. This way, they die just as quickly as normal, use FAR less memory and they deal about as much damage as if you had 400 SC, you just have 100.
If this makes as much sense as, "Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?" then I'll fix it, I'm a bit tired right now.
Complaining about the strike craft was a common thing back in the day around here.
We experimented with this very idea you suggested once during the Trinity days. The problem is that any change in the number of strike craft. Buffed/De-Buffed, or what to compensate for the numbers. It changed the game play of Sins, and the goal of the project was to optimize WITHOUT changing the game play.
You can experiment with reducing strike craft numbers. However it will have to be a separate add-on project. Like the Strike Craft autodock mod.
So you said you didn't have time to update this way back in.... August. Well its October... any spare time now?
Being a complete noob I have absolutely no concept of what would be involved in carrying on this project but I wish someone would to update it to work with the latest version of the game..... I certainly would if I could.
I am pretty much retired. Being damn near 50. With a full time job, and family. The time just isn't there any more. Time for the younger generation to take over.
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