Rebellion.. The Fourth, and Final Expansion for SotSE....
For all that do not know what TSOP is, or have not been keeping up with current events at all for the last four years. Check this topic. The Original TSOP for Trinity topic.
TSOP was originally created to fix the very annoying 2 gig hard coded crash bug that plagued Trinity. IT WORKED. Without changing any game play aspects of Sins. Without changing the quality of the game itself. During the time we worked on TSOP we found many bugs, and errors that the Dev's missed over time, or that were created with the relentless Sins patches of the past, and new expansions. With the Diplomacy 1.32-1.34 series of patches some elements of TSOP: Trinity were incorporated into Diplomacy. Mainly the Errors, Typo's, and Particle fix's. We are all human, and we all make mistakes. A company as small as Ironclad was bound to make some mistakes. Especially on their first game. I want to make it clear once again that this project in no way is a disrespect of Ironclad, or Stardock. Quite the opposite. You guys made a great game! There is no denying that. We wouldn't be here right now if you did make a bad game.
The goal of TSOP:R Is to add what was NOT incorporated from the Diplomacy TSOP incorporation. We will Bug Hunt, Look for errors, and typos that were not seen before, and Fix it. Just like we did for Trinity. We will convert the TGA formatted textures to the highest quality DDS format possible (This includes the UI textures). Just like we did for Trinity. We will try to put back into Rebellion what was taken out from Trinity (the varying planet types). We will also look into optimizing the new rebellion shadow system some more (if it is at all possible).
Rebellion reduced the size of the ship textures (mainly all of the frigates) to the next size down (by a power of 2). So frigates that had a 2048 resolution texture now have a 1024 resolution texture in Rebellion. Which is brilliant, It is hardly noticeable, and it made lots of room for more Rebellion features. TSOP:R will expand upon that, and bring back the "Strategic Particle Texture Reduction" of TSOP Trinity. There is much more we can do to optimize if we look for it. However, the goal is to optimize without changing the quality of the game, or if there is to be a loss of quality. make it as minimal as humanly possible. Just like we did for Trinity.
We also plan on bringing the Trinity versions of TSOP up to date.
All of this, and more that TSOP:R will do will free up more Ram, and improve your Graphic Performance. So you should be able to run Rebellion on a slightly lower end system, or a not so hot video card. CPU lag is still, and will always be a problem. We tried to deal with it by reducing poly counts on meshes in Trinity. That failed. Poly counts surprisingly have very little impact in Sins. It is the sheer number of units on the map that a Single Core of your CPU has to deal with that causes the lag. The only way i can think of to deal with the Late Game CPU Lag issue is to remove, and/or lower the number of units on the map. We WILL NOT do that. We WILL NOT change any game play, or balancing aspect of Rebellion. Just like we did not change it for Trinity. Let the developers deal with the Game Play, and Balance. We only wish to improve upon the game itself. We Bring..
The Sins Optimization Project: Rebellion
So.. Here we are once again..
TSOP for Rebellion is more of a Graphic Optimization mod than it was for Trinity. Many of the issues that plagued Trinity were fixed by Ironclad/Stardock for Rebellion. So there is no need for any GameInfo folders any more. Also the 2 gig crash issue that TSOP was originally created for has also been fixed. TSOP:R is more intended as a performance improvement mod than anything else.
TSOP, and TSOP:R is an open community project. Anyone who wishes to contribute is welcome to do so. Also anyone who wishes to use TSOP/TSOP:R in their mods, or other projects are also more than welcome to do so. No Questions Asked. This project is for you. Use it!
Do not run TSOP with other mods. TSOP is intended to be a Stand Alone mod. Running other mods with TSOP. Especially Graphic Enhancement mods. Will defeat the entire purpose of TSOP. TSOP is intended to improve your Vanilla Sins experience. Other mods like Distant Stars have incorporated elements of TSOP into their mods.
I will ask that we please DO NOT discuss Multi Core support, 64 bit, or LAA on this topic. It is a dead horse issue that has been beaten down so many times that people are beating the dust on the ground where the dead horse was laying. Its not gonna happen! EVER! The Dev's said its not gonna happen. DO NOT DISCUSS THE ISSUE!!... please.
TSOP:R Release 1.1
All mesh, and particle bad file path names fixed.
Mesh fix's (Unnecessary team color entry's removed)
GameInfo files fixed by Stardock/Ironclad so it is no longer needed in TSOP
All particle, and UI textures converted to DDS format. Some very large texture resolutions reduced.
Optimized Sounds, Music ported from TSOP Trinity.
Optimized Trade ship, Strike Craft, and Constructor meshes ported from TSOP Trinity.
Game holds steady at 1.6-1.7 gigs ram usage using Random Vast Competitive map. Max settings for everything. 9 vicious AI's Results may differ for you depending on your system. No Dev.exe errors were present. No crashes. Late game lag still an issue, but game is playable much longer than vanilla.
See various "Fixed" text's for complete list of changes, and fixes.
Thank you Myfist0 for ModDB link
You could be wrong?WinXP uses 256MB of RAM.
My Windows Task Manager shows memory usage 310 -324mb.
This including video drivers, filrewall\antivirus ( Iam use COMODO),etc
I did not think to say it )
I have worked SoSE:Rebellion quite well. Default game -without mods.The problems begin after 2 + hours of play.Or if I use the different mods... Unfortunately (for various reasons) is currently upgrading the computer impossible.That's why I paid attention to this mod.
Authors mod wrote that Rebellion uses less than 2 GB ram,or is it not?
In any case, I have not had the crash due to lack of memory. And Mini_dump have not.Just very lag after 2 + hours of play.
Thanks for the reply.
An experiment:
With this Optimization Project the use of RAM So = 360 Mb In start and 680Mb after 3-4 hours play
Total use RAM in system 1080Mb.
( Without Optimization Project = 449 Mb In start and 800+ Mb after 3-4 hours play )
I do not know why you are writing that the game uses 2 GB of memory???
It uses only 800 Mb. System remains free nearly 1Gb.
You use a maximum graphics settings?
With the Optimization Project the game works better !
If the beginning of lags, save the game and restart. After that, you can easily (but not changing the time) to play 3-4 hours. After again to save \ restart.
Thanks to the authors of the project !
I don't think anyone claimed Sins always uses 2Gb of memory. However, like most 32-bit Windows applications, Sins can only use upto a maximum of 2Gb - if it attempts to allocate more memory than that it will crash.
Hence the TSOP mod which has taken great care to minimize the amount of memory used by Sins.
You have to be careful interpreting kernel metrics, especially memory usage - the numbers can often be a case of 'lies, damned lies & statistics'.
The stats shown by the XP and Vista/Windows 7 versions of taskmgr.exe are slightly different:- Vista & Win7 show 'Physical Memory Usage' ie amount of RAM, whereas XP displays 'Page File Usage', which may include the size of your swap file. If the swap file is larger than the amount of RAM, then the XP version of taskmgr.exe will give you the impression that you have memory to spare when you haven't - you could be paging processes in & out of the swap file.
In the long run if you intend to play large maps, I would recommend trying to get hold of some more physical memory - 2Gb won't go far these days. If your system is paging then it could make a significant difference to overall system performance.
TSOP was made so that Sins doesn't use more than 2 gigs of ram on Maximum settings. Maximum being the key word. If you use the default settings of course the ram usage is going to be much lower. Everything in TSOP is based on running the game at Maximum settings. Which in turn will help the game in lower settings as a fringe benefit.
Just to go over some things again. Sins is 32 bit game. Sins uses only a single core of your CPU, because the Iron Engine was meant to run only on single core cpu's with Windows XP at the time it was designed. Most importantly. Sins has a 2 gig hard coded ram limit (Which the dev's have stated many times that they will not change any of this). That 2 gig ram limit is for Sins ram usage itself. Not Sins PLUS your OS, and all of the other background programs you have running. Only Sins Ram Usage. Sins WILL crash if it reaches its 2 gig ram limit.
Other 32 games like Mass Effect, or Doom 3 loads its game assets only as needed, or "on the fly". Then unloads them when not in use. Not Sins. Sins loads almost all of its game assets when you start a new game, There are some exceptions, but they will eventually load up during the course of the game. Once the assets are loaded Sins keeps these assets loaded until you end the game. Even the assets the game is NOT using. Which is why in early game it may be only 600 megs of ram usage, but by end game it could very well be near the 2 gig point. Again, i am referring to the game being on Maximum Settings.
The 2 gig issue isn't much of a problem with Rebellion, because a vanilla game averages about 1.8 gigs (on maximum). It was a HUGE problem with Entrenchment, and early builds of Diplomacy.
When viewing the ram usage in Task Manager look at the Processes. Not the overall usage meters. Then look at the ram usage that Sins itself is using. That is the benchmark we base everything on. Like i stated before your ram usage may vary depending on your system, but our goal was to reduce ram usage as much as possible without sacrificing in game quality.
As was stated above.. If your system only has 2 gigs of ram. Then you need more. You may have good FPS on max settings for a few minutes, but once you start Paging then that will create a major bottleneck, and stutter problem in game.
Thanks for the clarifications.Now I fully understand the essence of Mod.
I said earlier, I am satisfied with the minimum quality settings. For me, the main thing in gaming process, not a picture.
And as you rightly said, the lower settings allow me to do more with your mod.
I was able to play VS x2 AI on large (188 planets) map.
AI won)But no lags or freezes, I have not seen.
Over 5 hours of play, the memory usage has not risen above 795Mb. Memory usage by the game itself (Sin of a Solar Empire Rebellion.exe process).
The total consumption of the memory system (including the game) was 1290Mb.
Thank you again for your work!
I differentiate the total memory usage, and the use of separate processes.)
As I wrote above. With your mod for the game uses less memory. And running smoothly.
Is there any interest here to remove all the duplicate brush references (like for icons and stuff)...many of them are either duplicated or 2 "different" brush entries refer to the same exact location (same texture file, same place on that file)....
So you are saying there are multiple files that do the exact same thing. Are you sure they have the exact same texture coordinates? Many brush files call for the same texture, but may use a different locations on that texture, or use it on a different window. I seen weird stuff in the brush files myself, but left them alone because i don't know enough about them to mess with it.
If they really are duplicates then try experimenting with removing them, and seeing if it works. Make a list of the duplicates so we can show SD/IC. Perhaps they may fix in a patch. in the mean time we will use it here. Good eye.
Yes, all the brushes for the bonuses were moved to a new sheet, but also left at old sheet. You can remove the duplicates no problem, remember to change the counts. May also want to actually hook up the new bonus textures they created at the same time.
[FIX] Planet Bonuses
I did do some tests a while back, if there is duplicate brushes, or strings, the last one loaded will be used. So if the brush manifest loads sheet 1 first, then sheet 2, the brushes from sheet 2 are used. Test this to make sure though.
Planet Bonuses:
HUDIcon-Planet.brush and InfoCardIcon-Planet.brush both contain identical (HUDIcon) brush references for all planet bonuses from vanilla....only HUDIcon-Planet.brush contains brush references for those bonuses added in Entrenchment (these are the ones with the cavern picture)...I would suggest deleting all references to planet bonuses in InfoCardIcon-Planet.brush since that list is both redundant and incomplete....
Planets:
The hudIcon and mainViewIcon references are separate but refer to the same texture file and location...I would recommend simply keeping the mainViewIcon reference in the brush files and deleting the hudIcon references....then for each meshInfo in each planet entity file, have the hudIcon space and mainViewIcon space refer to the same brush reference (mainViewIcon)...if you have any doubts, note that the dwarf planet already does this...
If you want more details on which meshes/textures go with what icons and pictures, let me know (or refer to the unofficial Gfx patch)....
Planet Modules:
Similar situation as the planets, except it is the the smallHudIcon and mainViewIcon references that are separate but refer to the same texture and file locations....again, I'd suggest using the mainViewIcon references for both the smallHudIcon space and the mainViewIcon space in the entity files...PLEASE NOTE that the titan factories are an exception, as their smallHudIcon references and mainViewIcon references are NOT the same...
Frigates:
These are similar to the planet Modules....smallHudIcon and mainViewIcon references are redundant...suggest using the smallHudIcon reference for both the smallHudIcon space and the mainViewIcon space in each frigate entity file....note that some frigates (like the envoys) already do this and do not have a separate mainViewIcon reference....
As a side note, some of the InfoCardIcon references are used in the UI (determined by each player file)...for example, the scout infocard icon is used to represent ships queued up when one queries their fleet supply...
Cannon Shells:
These have a lot of redundancies....I recommend leaving the hudIcon reference (and space in entity file) as is....smallHudIcon, infoCardIcon, and mainViewIcon all use separate by identical references....I personally use the mainViewIcon reference for each of those 3 spaces....
I haven't done SC/squadrons, caps, titans, SBs, techs, or abilities yet...I think of anything else I've done though I'll let you know....
Seleuceia does your graphic fix have these corrections on it? because i already incorporated it into my latest test build. If this eliminates a whole texture sheet then it is that much less Sins needs to load up.
I also plan on re-incorporating optimized planets. Spherically uv mapped planet textures removing the black wasted space from each planet texture. Yet each planet is the same resolution in game as vanilla. Saving a huge amount of resources. Plan on doing similar to skybox's. I experimented before with this in earlier builds of TSOP with mixed results, but i think I mostly fixed the pole pinch issue.
My Gfx patch only fixes wrong icons, it does NOT eliminate redundancies....
FYI, I will be swapping the icons for furious defenses and group shield (they are mixed up) in the next update for that patch....
I do plan on releasing that patch with all the redundancies removed, but my current personal mod takes more priority and since I am using a different naming scheme for many things, it would take time to actually port over the changes....furthermore, I haven't even dealt with all the redundancies in my own mod (haven't looked at caps, titans, SBs, pirates, for example)...
Regardless, I am not aware of any unnecessary texture sheets....while it is true that some brush references are redundant, you can only eliminate the redundancy and not the need for something referencing that spot on the texture...
Not sure how much of an effect manifest duplicates have (probably not much) but BuffInspireAndImpairPlanet.entity is listed twice in Rebellion's entity.manifest.
We need to make a list of this stuff just like we did for Trinity.
I'm not sure, maybe it's just me, but whenever I click to download it tells me that the dropbox's public traffic has been to high and is disabled. Help please?
dropbox jam confirmed.
major stress, would you like me to upload my copy to my dropbox?
harpo
if you have a working link harpo, send me and I will upload to m0dDB and give stress the admin rights.
His net is to funky to upload large files
double checked my copy and it is corrupted in two files, so I will NOT upload
That's typical of Stress's uploads. What's the 2 files? We have the technology, we can rebuild it
re-checked and it gets an end of file on vasari4.ogg
he is using the old diplomacy tsop oggs I made the reduce the bitrate slightly. I may be able to find it or create a new one.
myfist0, I will pm you a link when it is uploaded, but winrar reports the entire rar is corrupt, and the size I have is 143,360kb, so you might want to try other methods for tracking it down.
Thanks harpo
Time for Stress to get this in the OP and accept the modDB invite and edit the descriptions. The mod is authorized but still waiting on the download to be authorized. Shouldn't take to long
The Sins Optimization Project: Rebellion 1.1
or check out moddb.com/company/soase-m0dders/downloads where I will be putting lots of other stuff to alleviate the load on soase.x90x.net
Thanks Myfist0. Yes my internet is total shit. I cant log in half the time, and the rest of the time i've had dial up faster than this! Since i am living in an monthly rental hotel i am kinda stuck with it until we can finally get our house, and move in. So if my upload was corrupt i apologize, and appreciate the fix. Will update when i get the chance.
Major, you now have full access rights to the SoaSE M0dders dev group. Feel free to add your name to the description of TSOP when you edit it.
Any other modders that want a place to upload but do not want to create a company, feel free to join up and I or Major will give the appropriate access rights.
I'm joining just to bloat your group member count. I have no intention of ever posting anything on moddb. :3
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