I've begun some testing on each titans individual strength. I've only finished one set of tests, but I plan on running them through multiple sets to get a general idea of their power in certain situations. I didn't micro any skills, since I'm only one person and that would unbalance it, but I did move the titans closer together when facing the VR/Orky tag team to bring the SB within skill range.
Test 1: 1v1 LVL 10 Titans + VR Orky designed (as best as able) to survive and kill titans (includes VR+SB), all research + all artifacts, balanced SC (advent get one extra bomber). This is to make it as balanced as possible. All titans had maxed passives.
Results W/T/L
TL;DR Version: Test 1 Ranks from best to worst
My next test is going to the opposite end of the spectrum, with all titans at lvl 1, no research (except titan building, of course), no SC and no skill points used. I'll probably do a lvl 6 run as well, then some fleet killing capabilities.
My next test will be without the artifacts. I don't know how it is in MP, but in SP I don't normally spend money trying to find one, much less all twelve. Hopefully, this will give a slightly more realistic view of a titan's 1v1 power, as some have expressed surprise concerning positioning in the ranks and ability against specific enemies. After that series, I'll begin running the titans with fleets. Please suggest some fleet compositions that you would like to see tested.
Due to Popular Demand, I'll be moving straight to titan vs. fleet. I do have some idea of what to do, but any/all fleet suggestions are welcome.
COMPLETED TESTS:
LVL 1 Ankylon vs. Early TEC Spam
LVL 1 Ragnarov vs. Early TEC Spam
Well the Vasari Rebel titans and both Advent titans are either meant to be used against or with fleets, so one on one results aren't that helpful. Snipe is a beast so its not surprise the Ragnarov got first place. The Coronata is surprising though, especially since unity mass would be doing its minimum damage and the strength of its normal weapons are their ability to hit many different targets.
THhose titan match ups and results are almost exactly what I expected in a 1v1, and i consider balanced. aka, goliath SHOULD beat every other titan period.
Only complaint is your reliance on autocast, instead of manuelly casting abilities.
@GoaFan
If you'd like, I can run the Ragnarov without Snipe. It beat the Ankylon without using any abilities, so I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have any difficulty mopping up the others either. For Coronata, the biggest saving point wasn't Unity mass, but Suppression Aura. Dropping the enemy's cooldown to such low levels is what helped it outlast and out-gun its enemies.
I do intend to bring some fleets along at a later date, but as I don't MP all that much, I'm not sure what people would bring to support their respective titans. I'll take any suggestions for fleet support that you may have, and post my findings on that as well.
@Pbhead
The only skills that might make a difference between autocasting and micro'ing are the Eradica's Chastic Burst and the Ankylon's Furious Defense. Ragnarov's scattershot wouldn't make him any more effective since he has a perfect track record without it. Neither Kultorask's nor Vorastra's castable skills have any bearing against titans, and the Coronata used Unity Mass every time it cooled. I do know that when facing Kult/Orky, Ankylon was able to kill Kultorask because it used FD more often. I will go back and micro those two skills.
I don't buy it- without a fleet unity mass does low damage, suppression Aura doesn't affect the orky(stuctures aren't affected), and of course subjugating Assault isn't applicable.
I'd expect an intelligently upgraded orky to wipe the floor with the coronata with or without the VRT to back it up.
Also frankly some titans- most notably the VRT, but also the TLT, ALT, and ART really mainly shine when they have a fleet backing them up.
VRT sucks arse at fighting other titans(it's main ability doesn't affect them) but nanoleech is overpowered as all hell BECAUSE the VRT will have a fleet and/pr orky backing it up(nano-leech hard counters the enemy's fleet, turning the fight into the VRT+backup against only the enemy titan).
I'll run it a couple more times then just to eliminate human error, but you don't have to take my word for it if you don't believe me. Pop onto Rebellion Dev and see for yourself. When I ran Coronata vs. VRT/Orky given the test's conditions, VRT died and the Coronata started to regen hull faster than Orky could reduce it. As for Coronata vs. Orky, I'dve thought the same thing, but Coronata seems to be a lot stronger than it looks at first glance. I ran the series at a neutral world without culture.
If by "Intelligently upgraded" you mean something other than max def/assault and 1 in frontal shield, then let me know and I'll run that as well.
I can clearly tell that "VRT sucks arse at fighting other titans" as I've tested it and it fell short of the competition. When it gets a fleet behind it and it's facing another fleet, then it may in fact be the best titan, but this test wasn't checking that. If you'll make some fleet composition suggestions for the VRT/other titans, I'll be happy to run them through when I get started running the fleet tests.
I would expect a level 10 Coronata to be able to take on an Orky but in reality you're not going to see a fight in a vacuum like that. You'll have a fully upgraded Orky well before you'l have a level 10 Coronata for starters...
I think you should run a test on how each titan preforms against a well balanced late game fleet from one of the three races because being able to wipe out a fleet single handedly is more useful then being able to 1v1 and enemy titan.
@Ekko
That's probably true, but this isn't testing the relative speed of getting a high level ship. It's testing what happens when two high level ships meet. If there's another test you'd like to see, feel free to make a suggestion.
@excartus
Define "Well Balanced." How large should it be, and what types of ships should go into making the fleets? Please give some examples, since many fleets are specifically designed to counter the opponent's fleet.
I would like to see these results as well. Titan solo records against a substantial fleet. If it's a level 10 titan the fleet would have to be pretty massive. What comp though or what race I do not know.
Alright, I think I can come up with something. Since the last test had titans designed to kill each other, I'll design a fleet for each race that is designed to kill titans vs. titans designed to kill fleets. I'll post my findings for each titan as I do them to cut down on waiting time.
I'd suggest just using level 1 Titans in your tests. At least, that is what interests me most. This is the level it has to survive and fight at and is the most relevant to balance. Who cares if a level 10 Titan is capable of amazing feats if it will never reach level 10? How it does at level 1 vs. various things determines the likelihood it is able to reach higher levels. Plus, I'm biased towards how MP games play out and level 1 is more relevant than level 10 (which is very very rare to see).
Thanks for the input I'll add that to my list.
PS: About how much fleet supply would someone have when the titans first start appearing?
Sorry, don't recall the fleet supply number but somewhere around the 4th fleet supply upgrade from my experience is when Titans and fleet start butting heads in MP.
Many thanks. I'll start from there.
I guess that all depends on how early you want your Titan. Whenever I get the enemy Titan warning, I make sure I've got at least 6 Drone Hosts filled with bombers ready to respond, but that's for a level 1 Titan.
LVL 1 Ankylon vs. a few early-mid TEC spams, with a limit of 4 Mil. research labs per team (required for titan). All research up through T4 is done. I've found that starting with armor/heal and 2 fighters is always solid, but you can substitute one of those for matrix if you're willing to trade some tankiness for a little more killing oomph.
VS. LF: Can handle 40 LFs (200 fleet supply, FS henceforth). Not much to say. Basically it's a free meal, and other things are far more effective.
VS. LRMs: Can handle up to about 30 (115 FS) LRMs. It will level up during the fight, so be sure to watch for that moment. I suggest taking matrix and gunnery, as they help quicken the killing pace.
VS. Carriers: Can handle 10 carriers (140 FS) or 20 bombers, starting at the end of the grav well. It will level TWICE when fighting them, so pay attention and grab your skills as they come.
VS. Corvettes: Can handle 40 Corvettes (120 FS). Too many more than that, and it becomes a toss-up between who wins. The Corvettes give such low exp that even 40 of them won't lvl the titan, so this fight is harder in the long run than the others.
VS. Gardas: Can handle Over 50 (200+ FS) Gardas with ease. Here's a tip: Don't feed the titan. It will lvl twice, as well as kill over 200 of your FS should you decide to stick around long enough. If, however, you do feel like pounding on the beast with flak, bring about 100. You'll lose 25, but at least it'll go down (if it starts as lvl 1).
As soon as I can get some Cap. Ship Info, I'll include those in my tests. I need to know about what lvl a well-fed Cap ship would be when the first titans started rolling. I'll get to some of the other titans tomorrow, and possibly do some diversified fleets.
Oh, just for random knowledge... a LVL 10 Ankylon built with 4-matrix, 4-heal, 4-armor, 2-weapon, 4-AM, 2-Ulti + research is immune to corvettes. 666 of the buggers couldn't take it down (fleet cap of 2000)
wow tanky can only handle 10 carriers... shit i wonder how many Ragnarov could handle... i bet its more btw
So I have been reading all this stuff about the titans and I am erally new to this game ( just bought it 4 days ago)
These numbers are interresting, but that is zero explantions what your numbers mean. If possible please explain those numbers and shortened names so newbies like me can also understand it
Also What is an Orky?
greetings,
New player to the game
Do you do your test inside a neutral well? Cause that can shift all the maths...
You ignore the fact that i can micro any titan around the Snipe ability and win. Snipe cant be casted unless it facing, and you can micro around it with ease.
If you don't know what they mean you're probably not at the point of having to worry about the testing in this tread yet. You're still learning the basic game, no reason to jump right into the meta game.
Shorthand for the Vasari's Orkulus starbase. Sometimes refereed to as an "Orkulus Rex" when fully upgraded and often implies the Vasari Rebel research that lets it phase jump.
@Amatiel
Ankylon could handle 10 carriers when starting at the other side of the well. This is without any real aoe (5s damage, 45s CD isn't much) and some of the worst dps a titan has to offer. Once someone with a better aoe pops up (TRT, ART, VRT) I'm sure those carriers will drop more easily.
@Ronintx
I'm terribly sorry It's easy to forget that not everyone knows the terms.
The OP explains itself pretty well, but it's pretty unrealistic so you can ignore it if you want to. The only thing the second test has truly shown is the general FS it will require to take down a LVL 1 TLT that has no fleet support, which is 150-200 to be safe. That's a large portion of the fleet when you consider the FS cap at that point is 800-900 or less. I haven't tried to use a mixed fleet against it yet, but I think that number will remain about the same.
@crisaron
All testing is done at a destroyed Pirate Base with no cultural influence.
@Cpt_Siddy
As stated in a previous post, Ragnarov could kill Ankylon without using abilities. Micro'ing around snipe won't help much if the regular guns can do the work as well.
LVL 1 Ragnarov vs. Early TEC Spams. Again, all research up through T4 is completed. I found armor + Explosive Shot with all fighter squads to be the best balance of offense/defense, but you can substitute Scattershot for armor if you think you can get away with it. At level up, get scattershot and weapon.
Vs. LFs: Can handle 75 LFs (375 FS). Explosive shot works wonders against critical masses, and when 30 LFs dissapear all at the same time, it's a sight to behold. TRT hits level 4 from this battle
Vs. LRFs: Can handle up to 50 LRFs (200 FS) before getting killed. Any more than that, and the LRFs dps becomes a tad too much for TRT to take. TRT hits level 3 from this battle.
Vs. Carriers: Can handle up to 10 carriers (140 FS) or 20 bombers when starting at the other end of the well. I actually expected more from the titan in this battle, but it just didn't have the stamina to take a 20 bomber beating for an extended time. TRT hits level 3 from this battle.
Vs. Corvettes: Can handle up to 80 corvettes (160 FS). Explosive shot absolutely dominates corvettes. And it's really fun to watch the critical mass explode into 20 different groups only to return to swarming the titan TRT hits level 2 from this battle.
Vs. Flak: Can handle 100 Flak (400 FS). Not much to say, other than flak have pathetically low dps on a single target. TRT hits level 4 from this battle.
I recommend that you have at least 200 FS in a single fleet before fighting this monster. It's a seriously tough nut to crack and will chew your fleet to bits if you aren't prepared for it.
Sorry for being so late, but life has been pounding at my door and keeping me from this project. As soon as I have a bit more free time, I'll get on it again.
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