It's been a while since I posted on the forums. I saw rebellion was coming out and it frankly excited me. I'm glad I've purchased the game as I can clearly see the devs got their creative juices flowing, but still.......
The game has some balance issues. Here goes nothing, in no particular order:
-Corvettes-
The Good: I like the idea. These are essentially fighters on steroids. The units are understandably frail which is the right way to balance this type of unit. These serve as a good early game fleet.
The Bad: You could argue this unit is a bit too strong. Composite damage mixed with very light armor means only flak stand a chance against these little buggers. I'm glad to see flak finally has a role, but even flak has it's problems. Once you have an "army" of flak, how do you go on the offensive? You can't destroy s***. Some folks make it sound like the sky is falling. I don't think corvettes are THAT bad, but the unit could use some tweaking. Maybe have them do anti-heavy damage?
The WTF: People are spamming these things like crazy. I think the fad will go away once people learn to use flak.
-Vasari Loyalists-
The Good: The techs keep in line with the Vasari lore.
The Bad: Holy.....honest question. Did the devs playtest this? Once the vasari loyalist hits the midgame stage, they hit a gear that the other factions can't match. The credit bonus is untaxed income and the lab bonus gives the vasari access to "late game" technology earlier than intended.
The WTF: People are abusing the loyalists at the moment. You can use the untaxed income and lab bonuses to get huge fleets far quicker than the other factions can.
-Vasari Rebels-
The Good: Overall, everything works out pretty well with these guys in my opinion. I like how the new techs mix with the Vasari lore.
The Bad: You knew this was coming. Tier 8. Starbase phase jumping. WHAT!. No seriously. WHAT! I know the Vasari are all about mobility, but think about this! The vasari starbase can already keep up with titans. Now the thing can jump from grav well to grav well? NO. Either take it out or adjust it to "only jumps to friendly systems"
The WTF: I covered it in the bad. I've only seen a few players actually do it, but it's bad when you see someone abuse it.
Verdict
Overall, the game is solid in my opinion. With a few tweaks, it could be even better.
Cheers to the folks at Stardock. I bought another title from you and I'm glad I did.
Raging Amish
You forgot that some some tweaks regarding both advent titans are needed.
Loyalists ..... well 40 lrms can kill it
Rebels ..... above t6 it become most powerful titan in game after they gona fix vasa rebel
BTW what name are you playing under?
Vasari starbases phase jumping..... This unbalancing is aweful. Once you get to this stage you are fighting 2 titans, not one. There are counters but once the enemy has a fleet all the counters become pretty irrelavant.
I like the idea of moving starbases but really once you get to this point there is no way any other race can win. I was playing a game last night where my fleet was bigger, well balanced and my empire was 1 for economy, 1 for fleet and 1 for culture. I was kicking the enemy fleet all over the place till he got his starbases coming at me. There was nothing i could do. All of my ships were upgraded to the max, I had max upgraded starbases everywhere but his fleet and starbase could just go round them. I was playing at advent so i didnt have red button.
Anyone got any good counters to moving starbases?
Ya. theres some things. but the devs have said that a balance patch might come out this week? so. cant waits for that.
Lots and lots and lots of them.
As far as a solution goes, I like the fact that the devs realize a nerf is necessary. However, simply moving the tech to T8 does nothing to actually balance the addition of what is basically a second titan to your fleet. Especially with the VR's additional phase missile damage tech.
The best way to do this seems to be to add a second tier to the phase stabilizer tech that allows the SB to phase jump. This would require 2 of the 8 upgrade slots to allow jumping and would prevent the SB from having EITHER the 3rd weapon tier or the 4th health tier. The exclusion of even one of these tiers makes the SB much easier to handle. Further nerfs as needed.
Love this idea the best.
Corvette raids are uncounterable (unless with more corvettes, or mine every grav well in 100%). Let's compare tier 1/2 corvette raids and tier 2/3 bomber raids.Carriers are easily counterable with LF, which is faster and kills carriers pretty fast.Corvette raids are "countered" by flak, which is slower than corvette and, before reaching critical mass, takes ages (relative to corvette speed) to kill them.Early game 1v2 is now almost death sentence because of these little buggers (speed+"anti-everything" logic). Corvettes introduce a lot of new mechanics so it's not that easy to find good way to adjust them. Still, IMO speed decrease is mandatory. Also:-Corsev has passive tank + decent AoE. That's a bit too much.-Discord is at least squishy. I haven't played Advent in a while (or Rebellion for that matter), so I'm not saying if it requires any adjustments, but it is pretty strong.-VL titan. I know VL are so OP that no one mentions that their titan is trash, but it should be adressed. Every titan should have either 1 strong AoE ability or awesome tank. VL titan has nothing going for it, except for phase beacon. Maybe the maw should be nerfed and moved down from LV6.-Rankulas is useless. Utter crap. Compared to Discord/Corsev it's a joke.
Like the idea...
But the starbase still doesnt take up the same logistics so either way it would still be a larger fleet than the opposition.
As for saying that bombers will kill it. Yes bombers will kill it but the amount of time it takes to kill one, if the enemy has a large enough fleet by the time you have killed it, your whole fleet is dead since their other titan is fighting yours and your fleet of fighters is busy trying to deal with the starbase, the carriers get ripped to bits but the rest of their fleet.
Agree on the speed reduction for corvettes. Also, if there is a way to tweak their movement so that it resembles strike craft more I think it would help. Instead of approaching a target and then turning around, they would go past it and turn around on the other side. This would keep them in range of flak for longer (and other ships). Also, they sorely need their own type so that anti-strike craft abilities can target them.
The Corsev is kind of a niche tank, which is weird considering what its role (frigate stealer) seems to be. Other than that its weapon damage sucks. I think its tankiness needs nerfage, otherwise its ok.
Discord is good but as you say is squishy.
VL titan is terrible, I think this is probably going to be addressed in the patch since it was mentioned indirectly that the Vasari titans are being worked on. There were a lot of ideas floating around about this one, I think the best are:
1) drastically reduce cooldown on spawn phase stabilizer, make it stick around after eating a planet
2) add a secondary effect to micro phase jump. nothing big, but something like a short boost to turn rate would be good
3) make desperation actually decent. Couple ways to do this: make the titan's wave cannons upgradeable by the wave damage research and increase the base damage resistence to something useful. 5/10/15/20% actually seems quite reasonable to me given that the titan is supposed to be a mobile homeworld...that as of now cant beat a Coronata in a 1v1
Rankulas is bad. Way bad. The nanite spawns are buggy and clumsy, the limit on them is way low, and it (the ship itself) isnt really doing anything new. Sova spawns attack turrets, Hoshiko spawns repair drones and Overseer does awesome single target one-shot repair, Desolator spawns bombing turrets and gets a boost against structures. All that said I'm really not sure how to fix it. Maybe a bunch of nannite-based AOE abilities?
Another problem is the Advent Rebel titan, - I'm not even mentioning its Unyielding Will ability - of which Chastic Burst is extremely overpowered. I mean seriously, I was attacking a level 5 Eradica with 60 LRM frigates, backed by numerous Hoshiko's and a bunch of flak to counter some drone hosts, and that thing literally tore the whole fleet to shreds just with that ability. I was sure 280 worth of fleet supply should have done the trick, but I was sorely mistaken. I think a nerd to Chastic Burst would be in order.
I agree with the OP by the way, on about everything he stated, and also with Mecha-Lenin.
Hehe, attacking lv5 titan with 60 lrm is pretty brave:)
edit: On a side note, flak damage needs nerf vs. very heavy armor. After reaching critical mass it does far too well vs HC.
The Eradica's Chastic Burst becomes far less potent if instead of throwing at it a large number of small fragile craft, you face it with a small number of much tougher craft and bombers. It was total suicide to attack it with the force you described.
I'm curious on your thoughts on Wail of the Sacrificed, Dual Fortresses, Truce among Rogues and several of the new unlimited AOE damage abilities on the new Titans.
In short the Good the Bad and the WTF for Advent and Tech would be awesome in similar detail to Vasari.
Dual fortresses can repair each other, which may be OP. I did it once, don't really remember the numbers.
Wail of the sacrificed...
The good: It is devastating to approaching enemy fleets, and can easily turn the battle in your favor.It's a late game tech though, so it's somewhat balanced. Plus you have to rebuild all that planet infrastructure after using it.
The bad: It's still a bit too good...Long story short, wail of the sacrificed allows your temples of communion to sacrifice a planets population, dealing 20 damage for each unit of population to connected gravity wells. It strikes immediately, and will destroy an enemy fleet before they even realize what happened.
The wtf: Right, so a fully leveled terran planet has 280 population...280*20=5600 damage. Meaning that yes, wail of the sacrificed, when used on a terran planet, will ANNIHILATE everything but the capital ships and a titan. One second they have 300 supply worth of fleet, the next second they don't.
not your thread.
Honestly, I think the jumping Orky just needs it to be a second upgrade for Phase Stabilization Arrays. That should nerf it.
That said, it really seems that if going against a VR right now, your only response is to spam bombers to take down their Kultorask and Orky. Unfortunately, the VR can probably just send a couple Kortuls along with Jam Weapons, negating your swarm.
EDIT due to typo.
Kols with jam weapons lol. I make fun out of Kols for a reason. There is strange Kolophilia on this forum.
No, it just increases cost slightly. It doesn't address the issue.
But it can be countered by both the Novalith and the Kosturas, and is also dependent on the map.
Lol typo. Should have been Kortuls.
EDIT: fixed
Methinks he was on the receiving end of a WotS one time and didn't like it lol.
Actually, I wasn't. I don't even see it often.
You do realize flak damage was nerfed already right? Are you always this stupid or are you just making a special effort today?
edit:
Extremely overpowered is a phrase that is extremely over-powered in the hands of noobs who claim that there fleets which don't compose of massed bombers and counters to cap/utility abilities are better than high level aoe special titans.
Mecha, I wasn't talking about you. I meant that I think M11 got hit by WotS.
Well really its removing access to one level of either the health/shields/armor upgrades or the weapons upgrades. Lack of either one makes an Orky at least manageable to defeat, although definitely not easy.
As far as Wail goes, it is somewhat more nerfed now that a SB with Enduring Devotion (or whatever) cant hold the planet after Wail is used. Plus, it's situational enough that it's probably ok the way it is now. Maybe a very slight nerf to damage per population. Probably not necessary imo. What might make sense is a small time delay, just so that it's not possible to wipe out a fleet as its charging up for a jump (for example).
Numbers are low. Its about 15 hull/sec and 7.5 am/sec. Combined with, say, Hoshiko's and Repair bays its very useful but all you need to wreck it are bombers/vasari super weapon/ogrovs/orky/etc.
I'm still trying to flesh out the TEC and Advent. I'll keep updating as things cross my mind.
Sweet, thanks.
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