Firstly, let me say thankyou for make a halfway decent follow to Diplomacy, it's taken some of the better ideas from the modding community and integrated them reasonable well into the game.
Ok now that's out of the way. Secondly that are still some glaring bugs that still need to be addressed and will hopefully be done so within the next patch or two.
Not sure if this is the right forum to post this in, but here goes anyway.
Since I not much of an online multiplayer (crappy wireless broadband service), I tend to player mainly Single player games with and without mods. But the one bug (if it is that) is that the AI is rebuilding titans it lose at the same ship level at which they died at. at this is happening is every game I've played to date (4x 5+hour games, and over a dozen 2-3 hours games).
In one instance where I'd managed to back an AI opponent into a 3 planet corner of a large map (the rest of the map is mine at the stage of the game) and used it's titan to decimate most of my attack fleet of Capital ships and other fodder and it dies at level 9, just as I'm rebuilding the fleet's capital ships less that one phase jump away, no more that that 8 minutes have passed and the same AI jumps in with another level 9 Titan and decimates the new built capital fleet in less than 90 seconds (and it only had 3 carrier frigate/cruisers in support).
If this isn't the AI cheating than I don't know what is?
Once again, thanks for the great game, please fix the bugs so it can become a bloody awesome game.
The AI isn't cheating, that is part of the design. Titans come back at the level they died at.
Titans keeping their levels upon death is something that surprises pretty much everyone when they first hear it, but to my understanding, it was added because in competitive MP play, losing levels on a titan would be so much of a game-ender that people wouldn't be able to recover.
It's been discussed to death and I really doubt that it would ever change. Because of how odd it is, surely the devs considered the obvious option first (no level saving) but decided against it.
Ok, thanks for the heads up on that guys.
But if that's true, then how come whenever I rebuilt my titan it's always starts back at level 1 even after I had gotten it up to level 8 before it died. Plus as I put in my original post I'm only playing single player(stand-alone and fully updated), not multiplayer.
I noticed that too maybe only in MP do you get to keep the levels, AI gets to keep it to make SP a little more interesting.
If your titan died at anything besides 1 and it got rebuilt at one that is a huge bug (or a feature for those who don't like the system). It is not supposed to work that way, either in Single or Multiplayer. If you see it happen again I'm sure the devs would love a save game before the titan dies if after you build it again the level resets.
You keep the levels in SP, my VL titan died a few times just so I could level it up. So I'm saying bug, as there is no way I would have the time to keep levelling it back up to 7, 8, 9 and 10 without it being some epic space conflict sized map, like dozens of stars with thousands of planets epic.
This is the reason Titans shouldn't retain levels people will just suicide them to level up.
Not to mention the bs of destroying a enemies high level Titan knowing you'll face his clone shortly.
Why do Titans keep their levels, yet capitals don't ? Not that it would be a good thing....
Would love to hear the reasoning behind this...it goes against every other game mechanic..
Its not a bug, but a feature. And a rather shitty one, there should be some level loss. Scratch at least two levels from the destroyed Titan.
It surely has to be added as an option later on?
I doubt it, but they're probably be a mod that changes it in the future.
IT is required because of the Advent Rebel lvl 6 ultimate. Else it would be really pointless ultimate...
this way you won't mind too much sacrificing it.
just what the hell is wrong with having a titan that doesn't retain all its levels? Your titan died and you got curb stomped. Make your peace with it and move on to another map where you'll start from nothing all over again. When you get all hot and flustered as the TEC and blow your starbase to hell and take out the enemy fleet, you don't get your next starbase with all of that dead starbase's goodies.
Also who the F* thought it was a good idea to give vasari phase jumping starbases? pair that orkie with a titan... game over.
Competitive MP? bullshit smurf village steam-peening for stats is no reason to have in a feature. let the little buggers cry because they lost their titan. This isn't WOW. You die, you lose, go read a book.
Because Titans are more or less balanced around the fact that it takes forever to level them. If Titans lost all their levels dying it would make way to lopsided when one side lost theirs. It would make it way to imbalanced otherwise. The game has been out less than a week. Stop freaking out that things aren't perfect.
Yeah i'm a noob to this game, and this really threw me off at first. Especially since it contradicts the games lore. Which says that capital ship levels represent how experienced the crew has become. Apparently all Titans are run by computer AI that is just copied over to the new ship in the event of destruction of the first lol. Also a bonus question why do Titan Foundries take tactical slots instead of logistics slots like all other ship manufacturing structures?
I do see where they were going with it however. It's the classic "Hero unit" mechanic used in a lot of RTS games. That is a unit you can only have one of but it gains levels eventually becoming very powerful able to handle armies on its own. And in many such games it can be revived if it dies for a fee, and retains its levels. Warcraft 3 for example uses this exact same system. And its funny how people seem to be using Titans in this just like Warcraft 3 heroes. Rushing to kill stuff for xp. Even "creeping" on the pirate system.
I personally don't like how it seems to reward sloppy play though. AI definitely benefits from it. They send their Titan into battle all the time against other AI's, and farm all the frigates. Often reaching really high level because of it. Players are smart enough to know not to bother sending in Frigates as you get no real benefit of killing the Titan, and will just feed it more xp it cannot lose. Seems kind of against the spirit of the game but maybe I just don't see why its necessary? Shouldn't losing your Titan be a pretty big deal? If its late game it isn't really since the resource cost doesn't go up. It's more like time out lol.
to my understanding, it was added because in competitive MP play, losing levels on a titan would be so much of a game-ender that people wouldn't be able to recover.
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While you are likely correct in the dev's reasoning, it still strikes me as odd. As a counter example, fleet supply doesn't drop as your ships get blown up. If you lose a huge battle, your economy is crippled and you can't rebuild your fleet as quickly and you might lose because of that. Many people have requested that fleet supply vary with fleet size but a very reasonable reaction is "the game has to end sometime".
I don't usually play MP so I'd be curious to hear from those that do if there are any differences in that regard.
Ok, I didn't anticipate that my post would general this much of a debate.
I must say that at the moment I have a foot in both camps on the subject of titans retaining levels.
I reckon that titans should retain most of their levelling, but maybe lose a level or two on rebuilding, so that :1) it shows that some of the effectiveness of the previous incarnation of the vessel was due to the previous crew (most if not all of who would be dead), and 2) to stop SoaSE-R from becoming that type of game where whoever levels their titan the fastest controls the entire game, at the moment titans are pretty much a game breaker if not properly balanced against the rest of the game.
Hopefully the Devs will find a happy medium that suits most of player community.
So here I came to the forums to rage about how I just quit/uninstalled this POS expansion because Titans are ridiculously overpowered and tedious to kill AND the AI can just keep spewing them at max level endlessly and behold I find this thread as the first unstickied post, get all excited that its a bug and thus should get fixed hopefully soon, only to find out its a feature? Hah, ok, no thanks, moving on.
Elemental strike 1, Rebellion strike 2...
Not analogous in the slightest...XP is unique as there is no substitute...SB upgrades can be purchased, they can be chosen at will...even if you don't have the resources, an eco ally might and can give them to you...
But there is nothing you can do to get levels on a Titan other than kill enemy ships, which quite simply isn't always a choice...you may not be in a position to attack or may not even have any enemies around you...or your enemies may not be providing you opportunities to get XP...
Capital ships not retaining their levels is also not analogous, as no lvl 5-6 capital ship completely dominates the game and wipes the floor...
It isn't just for MP...many SP people would be royally pissed if they lost a titan and had no recompense...that they aren't "tough enough" to suck it up is a BS insult...games are meant to be fun, not Nazi boot camp discipline on a CD...
This isn't the only thing in the game that works like this...even if you lost all your research labs, you don't automatically lose your technology, you retain it...forget realism, if you lost all your technology after losing some labs, you would be truly hosed...
Losing a titan is bad enough....they take a long time to rebuild (even longer if you don't have the foundry anymore) and are expensive...even if you got one instantly, it may take a long time to get it to the frontline....you already suffer heavily for losing any titan...
Just like Titan level retention, this too is done for gameplay purposes...if people didn't have permanent maintenance costs, games would never end....the massive influx of resources you'd get after losing your fleet would allow you to quickly rebuild and players would rarely be able to capitalize on their victories and maintain momentum...
Titans are different because if one is lost, the player may not be able to replace it...they take a long time to build (while frigates can be built as they are lost) and an enemy can snipe out the titan foundry....if you nest your foundry deep in your empire, you won't get it to the frontline in time to prevent an enemy from capitalizing on their momentum...
I won't claim the system is perfect, but this is one occasion where I think the devs made a good call in regards to gameplay and balance...I might be pissed if I work my ass off to bring down a titan only to see it 10 minutes later...but I'd be more pissed if I lost my high level titan due to something like repulse or blocking issues and had absolutely no chance for redemption....
Because it definitely isn't possible that your thoughts on game balance didn't include the devs' concern for multiplayer, and it isn't at all possible that you weren't looking at this the right way.
If titans started back at level 1 then in multiplayer games a level 9 titan with supporting fleet could die facing a similar enemy fleet, with heavy losses on both sides. But the player whose titan died would lose something he literally invested hours in, and even if the battle was really close the player whose titan survived would now have a huge advantage for the rest of the game. Capital ships and starbases don't retain levels because they aren't anywhere near as important or dominant as titans.
I think I would be more OK with it if they lost a level or 2 as others have suggested, personal (yet shared) opinion.
Titans keeping their level in this game is like when you clear a level in a FPS, and the enemies respawn for no reason.
Titans keeping their level in this game is like when you respawn at the last checkpoint every time you die instead of having to restart the mission....
Just save your game before every battle, if it doesn't go the way you want ,reload.
Some of us want consequences to our stupidity.
Unless I am sorely mistaken, I don't think you can save a game in MP and then just reload if a battle doesn't go your way. Not sure the opposition would agree to something like that.
Slightly off-topic, an annoying amount of games these days do not allow manual saves... I got so used to playing Half-Life and mashing F5 every 30 seconds. Then I go and play F.E.A.R. 3 and Far Cry and all I get are checkpoints half an hour apart
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