Where the vasari starbases would be the fastest (we'll call this 100% starbase movement speed)
Advent starbases would move at 50-75% of this speed,
and TEC starbases would move at 25-35% of this speed.
This would ensure that all starbases are useful in defending their gravity well. This also adds to the game's skill requirement as all the main defenses in the game aren't quite so static.
This would also be a way to start to balance the vasari rebel's phase jumping starbases so that the vasari rebel tactical advantage isn't so huge when they use their starbases in a gravity well.
Of course, this might be a little overpowered for TL (especially vs Advent) so to balance it out we could possibly modify existing abilities to help counter them. I don't think the Vasari really need any help in this area, they are already great at destroying hard targets with Phase Missiles, Subverters, the Kortul's ultimate ability, the Orkulus, and Nano Disassembler.
To help the Advent out, Repulsion could be modified to affect Starbases, which would give some breathing room for Advent fleets, and make the Iconus Guardian even more important than it already is x3.
As for the TEC, I think they have this decently covered with the Ragnarov on the Rebel side, and I think if the Kol were to be buffed some, GRG might actually come into play with the Kol using its strong armor to survive getting in close enough to use GRG to slow the Starbase down. Plus, if nothing else, the TEC can just wear down something like this through sheer attrition.
Indeed, a simple fix can do so much for the game.
I agree TL might be a bit overpowered...yet think about it for a moment. They have a lvl 8 tech, that has a bunch of really expensive upgrades, that requires 2 starbases to be built to maximize capability. This takes a while!
Considering all the weaknesses of the TEC in the late game, this ability actually gives them something that makes them shine.
The advent and Vasari have all their OP offensive abilities with their fleets. The TEC economy is further bolstered by their super strong defensive measures. So with 2 slow moving starbases, a titan, and a fleet, the TEC loyalist would be very hard to kill 1v1.
Most games are team games to begin with, so if you have one opponent who is extremely dug in like this, you will be able to 3v1 or 2v1 them. Not going to say you can win however , big red button can be quite mean to fleets to those who aren't very careful.
That's true, I suppose TL could use something that's a bit of a "WOW" factor to help them out.
personally i like the way the SBs (minus orkulus) are at the moment.
Ive put the transciencia to awesome use at chokepoint gravity wells, in combination with a half decent fleet ive taken down far stronger opponents inc higher lvl titan at once.
The argonev is also deadly if used correctly either as BRB OR as defensive structure (or both) the key is as always, placement.
Its stupid to load up all ur gravity wells with SBs, too costly and ineffective. If you use them intelligently and place them in chokepoint gravity wells they can often turn the tide of any battle despite the fact they cant move.
Players too often underestimate them in 4s and 5s and it costs them the game from what ive seen (when they are used correctly). i admit they are currently situational, but do you really want to throw the dynamic of the game out that badly?
Can you picture having to grind thru gravity well after gravity well that each has a FU SB in it?
Leave them as they are, which is a very powerful defensive structure that HAS to be used correctly and is situational for it to be cost effective.
Naturally I have to assume that you are applying this view to the rest of your post. If you deny this point then your post just doesn't make a lick of sense.
So how is the game dynamic isn't already skewed? By your first statement you already agree with me, yet you choose to disagree.
The only reason people think the dynamic isn't skewed is because of years of conditioning and because it already exists in the game.
Yet when used properly, they still utterly fail at defending their gravity well, with the exception of the orkulus. The orkulus takes almost no skill to use, is a solid barrier, and is far stronger.
What you state here already exists in the game.
Recently I used an advent starbase, for the first game i've used a SB in about 50 games. It turned the tide of the battle. The thing is the frequency when the Advent starbases are used properly is about that often. They cost the same as other SB's, yet the vasari one wins every time, so sieges are always in the vasari favor. Titans changed this dynamic a bit, yet titans are a luxury, not usually built under pressure(without feed) because of their cost.
Orkulus starbases are used as a rule. You see them all the time. Vasari rebel tech for jumping starbases ensures they will be the main form of combat fleet for that faction. Always effective, never situational.
So, there is a large gap in usefulness. This gap is largely due to the fact that one orkulus defends a whole gravity well.
Yes indeed I can, I currently face this ALMOST EVERY time i play against a vasari player nowadays. Now VL players expand as rapidly as they can, starbase chokepoints as always, yet now they also starbase their whole empire. This effectively makes them impossible to kill except as TEC. So as advent, you will just sit there knowing that your gimped starfish can't kill a vasari starbase. You can't use your bombers to kill a vasari starbase due to phasic trap. You can't attack because their are phase jump inhibitors up. I don't think you have actually played good vasari players.
Instead you have to go destras.
Then the vasari player spams carriers, as it takes a lot of destras to kill a vasari starbase. vasari players carriers eat destras for lunch.
No contest, and almost no skill involved.
My addition to the game adds skill and adds defense.
Sure, some games will last longer and be more grindy.
Sins already appeals to people with a longer than average attention span, so why not appeal to the existing population?
When i said im happy with the way the SBs are at the moment minus orkulus i meant obviously that the orky especially jumping orky needs to be nerfed.
Many vasari features need a nerf. The answer to this IS NOT to buff and overpower the other two races to compensate for vasari's brokeness.
You yourself say how bad it is to try to grind thru gravity well after gravity well that has a FU mobile SB in it, so why would you want to spread the problem to the other two races and make it Sins of a starbase?
Yes you are right, vas SB is OP but is the best answer to this really to make all other SBs OP?
I guarentee you the result will be that it becomes impossible to beat another player within 6 hours. SBs will no longer be situational and be way more cost effective than a fleet, just to take a single planet will require a 200+ supply advantage over the defending players fleet to deal with SB. HOW OFTEN DOES THAT HAPPEN? In a 1v1 between equally skilled players, it doesnt, and this can translate to 2s 3s 4s and 5s aswell.
Quoting sareth01, reply 156 Sure, some games will last longer and be more grindy
Sure, some games will last longer and be more grindy
Understatement of the fkn week, It will be the western front in 1915 all over again
Imagine wave after wave of your finest fleets being carved up by the enemies combined force of SB + fleet to no effect.
To take a planet its your fleet vs enemies fleet PLUS OP MOBILE SB!
you do the math, and imagine the faggotry that trolls who refuse to quit could accomplish....
This seems to keep coming up, ive mentioned it in other posts, DONT fix vasari OPness by buffing other races to point of ridiculousness,
JUST NERF THE VASARI.... FUCK LORE
Anyways, why are you so mad? Can't have a civil discussion? Please keep it civil.
I do actually state that SOME games will be more grindy. I did not say that I consider this to be bad gameplay. You would have to play a bit of online multiplayer to know what I mean.
Even if the orkulus gets a pure power nerf, I would still push for starbase mobilization for all factions, because its still a major imbalance in the game.
Note the word use of "major". If it was a minor imbalance I wouldn't take the time to outline it.
You've convinced about zero people with this closing line. Emotional outburst does not a good argument make.
I find this very hard to imagine, since titans eliminate this possibility quite well. Some titans are better at this then
others.
Well if my suggested game improvement gets implemented after the patch, I could prove this to you over and over via livestream how incorrect this assertion is.
endgame has a lot higher stakes, and its a lot easier to lose a huge portion of your fleet. So it can happen, and i've seen it happen all the time. Endgame is more about teamwork then 1v1 balance.
With teamwork, TEC and Advent starbases are practically irrelevant, while the orkulus can still shine in a 2v1 situation. Movement is key.
The developers can use movement as a way to balance the starbases so they aren't overpowered.
You really don't have to nerf.
HAHA, man, you from Nigeria or something?
Game balance comes ALWAYS ahead of the lore, if you want competitive multiplay.
Always.
No exceptions.
Make an exception here and you will have shit MP that will become Sins of Vasari raping everyone without vaseline empire.
Hmm cpt siddy, if you learned to read you would know that I don't care about lore in this game.
MP isn't shit because VR are totally banned.
Anyways, i've already stated on many other threads about how to balance jumping starbases. This thread isn't about VR. Naturally VR need to be balanced, and there are many threads on this. Please stay on topic
From Nigeria I am not.
Moving bases are fine, learn to scout.
You belong in the single player/role playing/modding forums
go make urself a mod with all these hair brained ideas so you can RP in SP to ur hearts content, and not subject us to your neverland.
No fantasy involved. Multiplayer is the only aspect of this game worth playing for any length of time greater then a few weeks. Mods and multiplayer don't really work well together, it would be nice if auto DL system was in place, yet that was considered too difficult to fit into a work schedule over a few years. Without one getting all players with the right mod installed can be an exhausting effort. I for one am not into exhausting myself over and over again trying to teach each new group of players where to DL the mod, where to install it...
Let alone trying to convince them that downloading the mod is worth the trouble in the first place.
Small balance fixes belong in the actual game.
Quoting sareth01, reply POSTMOBILE STARBASES FOR ALL FACTIONS
The funny thing is that sareth would most likely wipe the floor with you in a 1v1 multiplayer match Amatiel.
is he good is he?
I'm ok, not awesome so ur probably right.
I've been playing less competitively recently too in favour of more fun style games
Shhhhush yer flattery!
i'm not that good, i'm just above noob status.
Amatiel, i've been playing multiplayer for a few years now, so you can assume that if I have a reasonable intelligence that I've got at least some skill in the game, which by default requires someone to have a good understanding of game mechanics.
Also, I play the weakest race as a personal challenge. If you want to see how I play, check out my twitch account at:
www.twitch.tv/carpetbomb54321
I hope you enjoy
Oh, irony. Hopefully you´ll remember this next time you start calling people names.
Your just afraid that i can read between all the shit you are selling that everybody else seems to be chewing like morning cocopops.
Whats awesome about all this moving starbases is the fact that Sareth is defending it all so admirably even though its a shit piece but bold idea never the less. I believe, theres a a way of making stationary starbases op than copying. Copying is Samsungs recipe for ingenuity-not me. I just want stationary starbases to affect adjacent gravity wells as-well. Call it wail v0.5.
I'm mostly saddened by all this cow shit about how a tec starbase sends itself into my gravity well and then suicides itself for laughs. That shit is just as shiity as hell (funny but shitty neverless).
It might seem like they are, but 90% of people in this thread have voiced strong opposition to the idea then, following the above mentioned excrement that is coughed forth from sareths oral opening,
he is then either facepalmed or told to fuck off
It's less of a bad idea than many of you make it out to be. Though, I don't doubt the developers will NEVER do this but it's an interesting conversation.
I honestly don't think many appreciate how much better the Vasari star base is due to it's ability to move.
That said I understand the unwillingness to have mobile mines via BRB and mobile meteor storm. Though these upgrades could come at the cost of removing said mobility (i.e. requires removal of engines, same for Factory upgrade).
I don't think the game would have been worse off if TEC starbases moved at 1/4 the speed of a Vas and Advent at 1/2 the speed of a Vas. It just would have been different and balance changes might have come about differently.
Please work out your own personal emotional issues in your own thread. Also, by the nature of the forum medium, people are far more likely to make a response about something they don't like, so your anecdotal "evidence" is just that.
Yet, Being able to add to the developer's ease of balance is critical with starbases. ALL starbases can be made slower or faster with the ability to move, greatly increasing/decreasing their efficacy. Even the VASARI starbase speed could be nerfed overall, so all starbases would become very slow indeed, assisting in their balance.
I am just providing a rough ratio for balance and a new aspect to the game design in this thread. Its not like I haven't already gone into great detail outlining how the big "super abilities" of the TEC and advent could be altered to make them balanced if these were to be made mobile.
The opposition to such an idea has been hilarious so far.
for example, take this response:
Whats awesome about all this moving starbases is the fact that Sareth is defending it all so admirably even though its a shit piece but bold idea never the less.
Riddleking can't even provide reasons yet he opposes the view. This is like dealing with a child.
Sareth, you are a special kind of troll.
You continue with this subject knowing full it will never be implemented or supported by the majority of the community.
This thread is full of your self-contradictions, thus attempting to bait us even more to sate your troll desires.
You however, can never be sated, reasoned, convinced, bullied into silence or negotiated with.
May you rot beneath the weight of all the bullshit that has spewed from your mouth and onto our fair forum.
lol, you can't wrap your head around what I am. Keep trying, as this search will assist in improving your education.
You convince people one person at a time. That is how the world changes.
Feel free to point them out, many have tried, all have failed quite horribly.
So, I could ask you, have you attempted to use reason in your conversation with me? I can clearly state that NO, you have not.
Technically speaking, my fingers have been creating the "bullshit" that you think is being created. I promise you, i'm not rotting now, and I don't plan on doing any rotting anytime soon.
As for spewing crap on the forums, I would charge you as guilty. If I wanted to watch the world burn I would buy some gasoline and beer. I wouldn't spend time typing on an internet forum.
Now please, get back on topic and use some reason, please.
This thread hasn't died/been locked/gotten nuked yet?
-Lord Brony
please stay on topic
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