Sareth,

The idea is to be able to reposition the SB for defensive purposes (even in your own grav well...it is not "defensive" to order your SB to attack a force and it move to do so even in your own grav well), not so you can directly engage hostiles.  With the towing feature, you would be able to reposition your SB to the "north" phase lane that you expect an attack on instead of your SB being useless on say the "southwest" phase lane you originally placed it.  The ability to move for offensive purposes should remain solely the benefit of the Vasari.  And so what if your constructor got sniped trying to tow the SB?  Its a valid strategy if your opponent doesn't want you to move your SB, even if you don't like it.  Should have moved your SB before they got there

+1 to your last 2 points.  I do actually prefer both.  Starbases should move (altho much more slowly than the vasari) but i like the towing option to be able to rearrange structures as a TEC advantage.  That way, your defenses on a contested planet you control can be shifted and are never the same.  Still think SB movement should be manual manuever/ability with cooldown.  That way you can move SB, which is all I really want, but not "chase" after an opponent in my grav well with it (at least not like a regular ship).  Also remember, only the Rebels can jump SB at all.  I'm much more concerned with that goddamned nano leech ability of the Rebels titan.  Jesus thats an ability that needs a serious nerf (just got done playing against the VR Vicious AI).  I have never found the Vasari Starbases to be that much of a problem.  Send in 30 or so carriers, set a route for them around the grav well as the bombers attack.  SB will never be able to catch them before going boom to the bombers.

Axe, the nano leech does not need a nerf, it just requires you to use tactics. Agianst the VRT never ever engage it with large amounts of frigates or cruisers keep them at the far side of the gravity well or out of the well if possible. The nano leech is only as powerful as the number of ships it is leeching. The perfect counter is to engage it with another titan and caps while also having a large amount of light carriers with SC. Since nano leech doesnt affect SC those wont matter. Just send in your SC to engage the titan 1st then send in your titan and caps and watch the titan fall!!! If the enemy has a supporting fleet, once the titan is dealt with then jump in your cruisers and friagtes and slug it out with the remaining enemy. Also if playing as the TEC againt the rebels have some dunovs and drain the antimatter then nano leech is no longer a problem!

I am well aware of the tactics to combat the nano leech ability, thanks though.  What I am saying is that if I am pounding on anything with over 2000 fleet supply of titan, caps and frigates NOTHING should be able to stand up to that by itself as well as the VR Titan does.  It was damn near invincible at higher levels...not just "tough".  What you suggested is pretty much the only set of tactics that work against it and that seems a bit much to me.  I would like to see it nerfed, but only slightly.  Something small like increasing its cooldown only a nominal amount to make it stand up (by itself mind you) against moderate fleets...but nothing should be able to stand up to what amounts to a maxed fleet and walk away virtually unscathed (minus shields). 

Even current space stations need thrusters to maintain orbit, dodge satellites/debris etc.  I'm not saying it should be able to move anything like the Orky.  Just enough to reposition itself...maintain orbit if you will.  Obviously, this would not be at what would be considered a "reasonable speed".  It should be painfully slow infact.  Enough to move your starbase to a new phase lane given enough time but not enough to assist your overwhelmed fleet on the other side (or even and opposite corner) of the grav well.  Just an idea, but one that I think makes sense if taking those considerations into account.

But Axe that is the point you are not supposed to come at the VRT with your entire fleet, basically your fleet is powering its ability. If you just want a one on one slugfest then whats the point of abilities. So your tactic of throwing your massive fleet at the enemy is what gives the titan power. So IMO the titan isnt overpowered it can be brought down simply with another titan and swarms of SC and it gives u a sort of advantge why don;t you take your frigates and cruisers and some caps and invade another of the enemies grav wells. If you think about it he is giving you a slight advantage. You can send those ships to fight somewhere else and most likely he will have to send some of his fleet in response so like i said it all comes down to tactics.

The vasari already have something that gives them fleet deterrance.  That is their very powerful starbases.  Having even more "anti fleet" capability only ensures one thing, that the vasari rebels become far less likely to lose a game.  how can you even hope to attack a vasari player with ANYTHING?

You need fleet to kill a starbase.  You need strike craft or ogrovs.  Yet, all strike craft are nullified by phasic trap.  Ogrovs would be nullified by nano leech. So the vasari have all their bases covered, they are almost unassailable after a certain point.  They have movement capailibities to ensure that their main fleet is only one or two jumps away from any part of their empire.  All these combine into the perfect defense.  Having a vasari player in the eco slot is just about as OP as you can get in this game.  I'd suggest making the vasari endgame economy sub par to the TEC and the advent, as their fleet is already much more powerful then the advent or TEC's. 

@ aceX

Yep, the vasari being completely movement based and also carrying heavy firepower with high durablility gives them the main tactical advantage in almost any situation.  Their OP endgame is compounded by the fact that they get such a huge amount of resources early on with all their neutrals, as well as they have extremely cost efficient research techs that cost very little yet give a lot of power. 

So as an all around race, the vasari really don't have many weaknesses.  Their primary weakness is in the early game, if you can get them early you have a chance at beating them.  Good players stay alive by grabbing neutrals around the map(which is random luck, not skill), and an early vasari starbase defending their homeworld is better then any early game assault tactic.  Also, any vasari player that gets an early feed to deal with this well known early game weakness will ensure that even without feed the vasari player will hold that front.  Its a very low initial investment that has posatively huge returns in the long run.  All their racial strengths have added up to "best at almost everything". 

Can we all at least stay on one topic?

Wait.........this is a troll forum isn't it?

*sigh* I guess they probably they need to really to beef up the other factions. By-the-way, I am a Advent player in Diplomacy since i don't have enough money for Rebellion. 

But, i still know what you are talking about.

So, here is my statement: NERF THE VASARI!

There, I said it.

Yet the point of this thread is to show people how you can buff the other races while not hurting vasari gameplay.

I personally don't enjoy playing as a vasari player, yet there are many who do.  The point is to ensure that everyone wins, devs get a more balanced game(because they add in moving starbases), vasari players get to have more of a challenge because they will be facing tougher advent/TEC, and advent/TEC players will be able really defend their gravity wells using moving starbases.

The game doesn't lose anything.

Also, this thread may briefly go off topic, but it always comes back. 

This topic still is quite relevant, as you see even less use of non vasari starbases then ever before.  Would be nice to actually have a reason to use the cool starbase idea instead of having it phased out over time. 

This would allow the developers to deal with the balancing of the vasari rebels with a multi front approach (sorely needed, imo) as well.

Hmm you aren't really thinking it out. 

If you pay attention, you will see.

Vasari starbases don't move that fast.

they are avoidable with fleet, although barely so.

By making advent starbases half as fast as that, you will be able to avoid them with your fleet 2x easier then against an orkulus.  It could be made slower or faster depending upon balance requirements.

By making TEC starbases 1/4 as fast as the orkulus, you will be making it 4x easier to avoid.  It could be made slower.

The point is that this gives the developers a VERY easy way to balance starbases, which for some reason was thrown out when they were originally designed to give vasari a massive advantage. 

As the game stands currently, core mechanic ensures that the vasari will remain dominant in all future game play, and other game systems will be adversely effected if the game is balanced another way(also costing devs more money).  The only other easy way to do it would be to nerf the efficacy of the vasari starbase in several small ways.  This would naturally degrade the "coolness" factor of using these, and many players would become disenfranchised with the race because they have been hooked on the easy win factor using these for so long.  So that is why I suggest a subtle "add more effective competition" to the game instead of diminishing this fun toy.

The fact that the other starbases can move slowly does only one critical thing to game balance, it allows any starbase to fully defend its gravity well.  This equates to non-vasari races being able to defend themselves effectively.  It also gives the developers the tool to do some time/money effective balance by changing starbase speeds to affect game balance.

Also, the balance remains on the advent starbase in that its snare ability is interruptable by ship abilities and meteor requires 6 labs (and advent are the most logistics slot dependent race).  also, meteor kills fleets over time, it doesn't wipe out a fleet in one hit, and its quite possible to escape fleet intact in only 1 hit.

Big red button is a one hit kill, so naturally its on the slowest starbase, inching towards your fleet.

Now developers are averse to this idea because they think it will probably ensure that defensive play will be more rewarding then offensive play, and they don't want to throw off the balance of the game in this fundamentally important way.

The thing that I've been trying to point out with this idea is that it only adds minimal risk in assaults.  The other point i'd like to make is that there is only one race that is balanced in defense and assault, and that is the vasari.  That is why they are the best designed race, because they are the strongest at both(advent are more attack oriented, and TEC are more defensive).  Being strong at both is OP and throws off game balance(in all honesty the vasari should have the worst economy of all the 3 races, yet somehow the designers saw this differently).  The main area game balance is thrown off is in the orkulus starbase, and has been since entrenchment came out. The problem has now compounded with the vasari rebels, as the developers think that their unit isn't OP because they achieved the best game balance in diplomacy(which was really just a fine tuning of entrenchment combat mechanics).  Well the orkulus was still OP then, because it was the big bad unit the game was designed around.

Other aspects of balance that won't be changed with this addition to the game:

The player still needs to scout.  The player will need to move their fleet more against all opponents, instead of sitting at the edge of a gravity well doing nothing/waiting for a SB to build.

A starbase should be able to threaten that lazy fleet.  It should act as a barrier. An orkulus starbase with phase jump inhibitors and phasic trap is a strong barrier.  An advent starbase capable of movement is a barrier.  A TEC starbase capable of movement is a barrier.  The last two starbases

The only reason a starbase is an effective defensive structure is because it can move.  The orkulus has proven this time and time again, beyond count.   

TEC loyalists should have their two starbase tech 8 ability justified and they would be buffed.

The vasari rebels are indirectly nerfed because other races will have more justification to build their own defensive starbases(4x more defensive area covered, so thus 4x more useful for the player, along with being able to set up surprise starbase ambushes for the unwary), so the vasari won't have the only highly effective combat building support.

This doesn't diminish other playstyles to irrelevance, yet adds to the depth of play FOR ALL PLAYERS.   

With the addition of titans, and the lack of movement of other starbases in game, the vasari become the only race that can effectively mount both the strongest offense and defense.  Vasari players, wouldn't you like your wins to be based upon something more real, your own skill, instead of based upon the skill inherently designed in the game?

After all, your wins mean a lot less if you aren't trying as hard for them as the other races. 

3 closing statements on the matter:

Option 1:If the developers are worried about lack of player combat because the game has become too defensive, then nerf the vasari starbase as it has the most amazing turtle capability.

Option 2:If the developers are concerned with balancing the game, proceed with my option.

Option number 3: Fly by the seat of your pants and continue the development trend of good ideas go to vasari first.

Pandora's box has been opened already, the developers chose to design a good videogame.

Dream on little newbie babys. You ain't getting tec and advent starbase mobilization techs.

Not on my watch!

I agree that this would be interesting to try out, I may only play SP but even I fear attacking a grav well with an Orkulus in it, since you never know exactly where it is going to be unless you do extensive scouting, which is not an issue with an Argonev or a Transcenia, and I think giving the other races a LOL, SURPRISE! capability would go a long way towards balancing the factions defensively. Plus, this would make the TEC Loyal twin fortresses tech truly a fearsome beast, sure, jumping into a grav well to find an Orky right there is a bad sitaution, but even a fully upgraded Orky can't take on two Argonevs without some serious support, and I think it would add an interesting defensive dynamic to the game. 

Edit: It also occurs to me that this could potentially tie in to the whole BRB discussion, since if Argonevs were able to move, the range on BRB could be shorter without crippling its effect as much as it would on a static starbase, this would give further incentive to run around, so as not to get vaporized by a WTFBOOM ability.

Now I'm imagining defensive tactics with mobile Argonevs.... imagine, you could use them to surround the enemy! Sorry, you aren't getting away that easily! Instead of a "just sit back and mindlessly bomber spam the starbase" strategy, now you would be forced to constantly move your fleet. Do you choose to focus your attack on one SB? Oh, look, the TL player is moving his other starbase to destroy your carriers! If you split them up, will you be able to kill them in time? If nothing else, this would make bomber spam less derp, and allow for more interesting defensive battles. After all, its a sure thing, no matter how good your static defenses are, they WILL fail against a determined opponent who can keep fighting, regardless of strategy.