What the heck? So I get around to my third game on the recent build and I finally realize the way to keep apace with the AI is to settle lightly defended towns as quickly as possible.
But now the Knights of "way overpowered for this early in the game" come and destroy one of these towns. This is balls.
Please, I don't know what's going to attack my town and whats not. I see tons of monsters and I have no idea what's going to actually threaten my expansion. Some like to stay still, others wander around. And who knows how they behave towards the AI, because they end up doubling my amount of settlements in the same amount of time.
I was hoping The Knights of "Assuck" would ignore my pitiful settlement, but instead FE has provided me with yet another hour long game that ends in a rage quit.
The major thing is: If the monster has an opportunity to attack my town, they should immediately every time. Or never. That way, I won't bother expanding by them without proper precaution.
I experienced this same problem when the Knights of Asok were first introduced, and I agree that they have some serious issues for how early they're running around the game. I say they should be stationary until early-mid game, when you and your troops can actually survive an encounter with these guys.
I think the knights shouldn't attack towns. Everything else sure, they can avoid the knights, but towns no. They are too powerful for an early game roaming monster that destroys towns. bc they are roaming you don't necessarily know you are building a city in their territory. Not unless they warn you before you try to build the town. Come to think of it, if it does warn you, it might be cool if you had the option of paying them tribute when you build the town to not destroy it.
It just needs to be more clear where to build settlements and where to not. I don't know which npcs are passive and which ones are aggressive.
Maybe I haven't played the game long enough to have enough knowledge for a judgement.
So, I don't know whether or not the knights are waked up like every other monster? If yes, I don't see a problem per se. There where deadlier monsters in my games (normal difficulty) so far.
But I've seen them wandering around without "weaking-up-trigger", if I remember correct. If this is true, the knights should definitely spare cities and maybe outposts, too. After all, they are not supposed to be stupid roaming monsters, but honorable knights, you might ally with later in the game. Or am I wrong?
If you want to go into the extreme, they might possibly attack only AI's and players units! Like this, the player has to be careful, when moving around pioneers and weak stacks, but don't need to be afraid about resource improvements.
The knights would have a totally different charakter and gameplay value than all the other monsters. I would like this!
I found one way of dealing with them - a sovereign with Silver Tongue can bring them over to your side. In one of my worst games for the AI player-monster alliance, they had KoAs hanging around next to their cities and outposts who I would brainwash into my service right before the battle.
Fight cheese with cheese!
The strategy is not spreading cities like wildfire and hope for luck with monsters, in my opinion.
I do as follows (challenging, dense monsters):
1. Recruit nearby champ
2. Clear out area nearby starting city to avoid local resoruces being attacked
3. Find a place for your second city so that its influence will not overtake any huge monster lair. Keep focus on clearing out as much as possible.
4. By now someone big will often declare war on you. Get one or two cities from them and you are going
This does not describe all my games, but is a general template for me.
Tips:
If you are near a hoarder spider or other lair that spawns, then you are ok if you have a city nearby (not an outpost). If the spawn eventually always attacks your cities, then this will help you level any champ/unit that you place there.
Ignys gives lots of exp. A lair spawing them is great.
Since many monsters will follow you, there is sometimes a possibility to lead them towards enemy areas.
If you produce a few units, have a sov and a camp, then it is not long until you can survive pretty nasty monsters.
My most important tip:
The enemy wildlands (green borders) can give insane amounts of exp. Enter, fight and withdraw to neutral land to heal and upgrade. I did this yesterday before going to war, and had level 7/8 normal units with my sov. That army took two cities with pretty heavy defense.
And I forgot a VITAL design thing.
Give your units charge. That means your units will be able to reach the enemy in the first turn (usually) and very often get the first hit. I also give my units the +1 Attack and +15 strength.
My last game was almost exactly this strategy, worked great until near the end when I accidentally triggered the Shrill Lord near my second city and was duly punished for my arrogance in moving my champion away. But there were no KoAs in this one (almost all the monsters on the map were elementals, with a few ogres thrown in), I think part of the OP's problem is that the Knights range quite a long way from their lair and can swoop in on a city from some distance away - as well as being fast and strong enough to make a mess of low-level champions and units.
I've seen them both guarding their lair until "activated" by a player's ZoC, and "patrolling" a wider range. The latter might actually be them chasing down an AI player, of course, I really don't know, especially since I've seen them "guard" AI cities at other times like other monsters sometimes do.
Also, I have to add that I really like them and am glad that they're in the game - but have also learned from experience that they're one of those enemy units that can seriously mess up your start, since rather than guarding their lair and sending out weaker spawns, they just go on a rampage.
I have hat very little problems with the Knights of Asok, but ofcourse that is due to random luck. I am not sure how strong they are and how long it takes to be able to handle them.
They're a 3-man unit with totaling 33 attack, 24 defense, and 69 hitpoints, armed with spears. A decent midgame unit, but if you're caught between one or two of them on turn one, you have to ctrl-N due to their almost Mite-like aggressiveness. Seriously, I hate those guys.
I guess I'm the only one that likes them. They present a very big challange in the early game. Once spoted then my who nation adjust production to combat these knights. I must admit that it does put some thrill into the early game which otherwise is usally dull.
To the OP, You lost deal with it and move on. Never understood the whole 'rage quit' mentality. But I have noticed that those from the intitlement 'Me, Me' generation seem to suffer more from rage quitting than others do. And because of this attitude the gaming industy has taken "Challange" out of modern games.
Totally an unfair assumption about the OP. I wonder if that is a stereotype of your generation.
Call it like I see them. Seen this attitude a lot from the Entitlement generation.
That's all fine and good, but it sounds like from your post you are not running into them at the start of the game. If you see them somewhere around turn 1, they don't present a challenge. They end your game, no matter what kind of strategy you employ, unless you metagame for them with tremor.
Please keep that in mind when you hurl personal insults at the original poster.
KoAs are roaming, and don't respawn. That means they are always active and doesn't need to be waken, but once they die it's over.
KoAs are pretty strong, but unlike other monsters, they can be SIGNIFICANTLY weakened once you start to hurt them (due to the multiple char per unit thing), if you do 23 damage to them, suddenly their attack drops by a third, and it becomes much more manageable. The easy way to do this is use fodder, summons, secondary hero, militia to take a couple of their hits and get in your own attack to weaken them until you can handle it.
If you really can't do this, then scout better and avoid their general area in the early game. Sometimes it's not possible (like if they are blocking your primary path out), in that case, Ctrl+N and chalk it up to bad start. Personally, I find the early challenge often end up making the game more fun overall. Too often when I get easy starts, I just roll everything.
But I do see them some times around the 1st and 2nd turn. More often it is between 2nd and 8th turn. Perhaps I was a little harch but I'm am so sick of this attitude in the gaming industry of making everything easy because some people can't handle a challange in games.
Or put code in place to ensure that such a start does not happen. No reason to put extra work on a player trying to generate a playable start.
Can you provide us with an example game start that turns an impossible encounter with KoAs into a challenging encounter within the first 20 turns?
Oh sure, the "put a code in place" solution. Have you honestly tried to find a position that's not close to a start position? Take an end game map, mark the capitals, then tell me where you can spawn decent monsters without being near a start or where you don't run into them quickly.
You'd think that putting them 10 tiles away would be enough... except there are mountains and chasm and oceans that essentially limits the paths available so that you'd either walk right into them, or they'd walk into you. Putting it 12 tiles away instead isn't going to help.
Kalin,
We are only talking a little bit of map scripting to save the players time restarting. Yes, the burden is on the developer. I've seen your past posting history and I expect 0 rational discussion from you when you feel the developers are being criticized, so let's agree to disagree. I think the burden of building the map should fall on the developers, and you think it should fall to the players via ctrl-n. I like burgers, you like tacos, have a nice day.
How about this. Have a toggle that you can select that will allow a certain unit power into the game and you get to pick the turn range as to win the show up on the map.
For example:
Units with the power of the knights you could set them to come in between turn 50 thru turn 100. You still have the randomness but you can tone down that to match your play style. And this will not only work on the kjnights but other creatures as well.
And this toggle should be independant from difficulty settings.
sigh... code to keep the knights in "check"
something along the line of ... defend my "base", stay within 10 tiles of it, if i hit my border then return to base.
see its not that hard.
chase someone for 3 turns, if i don't catch them, return to base...
stop whining about hte people complaingin about how the knights are ruining their games. They have a valid point. There shouldn't be ny reason for the knights to target your first town in the first 20 turns of the game. Don't give me this "entitlement generation" stuff, I'm older than that and i have ADD - i know very well how to keep impulsiveness under control.
Hopefully with the monster coding change in the version being released today the problem will be solved. I'm glad the devs listened to what was being said.
I think Glowing Ember is right. If not, I like Bellack's idea and that code is actually already in place for some of the other lairs. Could have a weaker version at the start of the game, that upgrades after x-amount of turns. It amounts to about 10 minutes of xml changes.
Okay wait, what the hell is that suppose to mean? If you have REALLY seen my posts, then you would know that I have always acknowledged that map generation still needs work. That doesn't mean I'm not realistic about where monsters can be placed. A little bit of map scripting? Have you seriously looked at the map lately? Due to memory limitations, the map size isn't super large... and there are many people who thinks that players are being placed too close to one another as it is. There's very little room where you can put "strong" monsters that would not be near somebody, unless if by little, you mean, don't put any strong monsters at all? Then sure, I'll agree to disagree with you. I like having some challenging monsters around. Good day to you.
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