For developers, working on this game is their job. This is what they're paid to sit at a computer and do for a living. For modders it's generally more of a hobby in their free time. I will give you that the modders generally have an easier job though. Most of the hard work is already done for them thanks to who wrote the software the game's content actually runs atop. There are several talented modders out there that could easily create models as good as the titans or better. We've already seen this in the giant ships thread in the modding forum, and in the past even I posted models that would have been up to that level. Until now there was no real drive to create titans given that the game did not allow anything distinct in behavior and identification from the capital ship category.

I'm not buying the quality control argument either. How much extra effort does it take to create new planet types? Not much other than tweaking some values. How about upgrading the appearance of existing ships or creating successors similar in function but different in appearance? Again, the blueprint for a ship is already done thus requiring values to simply be tweaked. I don't see it as much of a task to create and replace more content to do a better job differentiating the game from Trinity.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Rebellion is bad. There's enough content to justify spending $20 on what essentially comes across as an expansion. At the current price point of $40 there's not enough new stuff to make me want to enthusiastically promote the game to friends like I did with the original release.

Ok, lets be honest. I waited so much from Rebellion and bought it right away beta came available on Steam. I loved trinity. Now I have to say that if you havent yet bought Rebellion, please wait further for the release. This is the same Sins of the Solar Empire with a new price and a same factions x2. Loyalist / rebels? 6 factions? All with the same ships? Are you kidding me? Graphics are new but definitely not stunning. Being honest even the graphics are not that good. I think this Rebellion "add-on" is a waste of time and Stardock should really add more content in it or take a leap for a totally new game. This is just something I cant recommend even to my friends because they will eventually find out that this game has very short life time.

Someone mentioned Endless Space. I bought it also and I have to say it is much more better and promising than Rebellion, even it is on a Aplha stage. It has a really big potential to be the next great 4X game since MOO. I have played it already 19Hours in 7 days and 17Hours Rebellion in 37 days. This is the difference. In Endless Space I have felt this "just one more turn" feeling what I havent felt in a long time. In Rebellion you build a Titan and research everything and thats it when the game gets boring.

I have bought also a Sword of the Stars2 and got a really big disappointment with that too (havent really played it after thousands of patches). So I wrote this for the people who dont want to get disappointed game after game. The Rebellion game itself is not worth ovet 10 euros if there wont be more than 3 factions. Rebels / Loyalist are fine, but 2 additional new races would be the idea what is really missing.

I am sorry, but Titan and Corvette is just not enough. 1 new structure / race (titan factory). New techs? 5? 10? ZZzz.. Waste of time!

I agree, if you already have Trinity Rebellion is over priced. But as a modder I can tell you, you really can't hold a small development team to the same standard. Every change they do theoretically has to be told to some guy at the top, I can do anything I want just because I want to. Those changes then have to be checked for quality, which is part of what the beta is, but they need to do some degree of internal QA. Personally as a modder I do try hard to test and break my stuff, but my private suspicion is that many others just try it once in a typical scenario and if it works they call it good. And as a modder thats more than fine because they are doing it for free and if it doesn't totally break the game, people will understand and it will get fixed later. For a company, fixing things later means money, so they try really hard to keep that to a minimum, while modders are working for free anyways.

Also while there are a few genuine mod teams out there, in my case my mods are mostly a one man show. I know every single file that went into it because I added it or I inherited it and eventually learned everything that was there, and am certain no one added to it. The Sins engine is 5 years old and even though its team was small, even in the files you can see clear signs of the game changing hands with different styles. Professional programer try hard to keep this to a minimum, but its unavoidable, and when you get into complicated engine code, it can be very hard to fully understand what your changes will do, as the game engine has probably taken a life of its own by now, and if your code does something unexpected it can take hours of going through internal game code someone else wrote to figure out why. That the engine was first written by Ironclad but Rebellion is being developed by Stardock certainly hasn't helped things.

Point is, the extra bureaucracy that the work environment adds does make a real difference when it comes to adding new content and differentiating things. Modders can do it on a whim, game programmers can't. You're completely right to feel that you over payed if thats how you feel, but comparing it to what modders do is a poor argument in my opinion.

And I'm afraid I have to stand by my claims.

Warp Null is a great modeler, but the fact is that the Mon Calamari cruisers aren't as complicated as the vanilla titans are. Also most of its texture looks like its just been wrapped on it where convenient, the Sins models and Evil Jedi's Star Destroyers have been delicately UV mapped on textures made exactly for that purpose. That and unless you've mastered tangents (and I doubt any modder has at this point), the lighting on the vanilla titans will certainly be more detailed.

Also while the Ankylon is great for demonstrating the engine shadows, I think Ragnarov, Eradica, and Vasari Loyalist Titan are the best looking ones in the game.

How can you compare Sins to Endless Space is beyond me. Sins is neither turn-based, nor true 4X game. Although many people like it to play just against AI, mostly out of fear being beaten in multiplayer against human opponent, which is completely normal and i am partially like this myself, gameplay of Sins is primarily tailored for online multiplayer.  When you research all the techs and build the Titan, the typical Sins match should be nearing its completion and you are supposed to start a new one.  If you expected it to be like Endless Space ("one more turn"), you clearly bought the wrong game, not fitting your gaming taste. 

Endless Space was only an example of a potentially good game in 4X genre these days. Someone else already wrote about this game before me. What comes to this thread it is all about it what I wrote. Rebellion will be a great disappointment, I am afraid.

About the online gaming in Endless Space, it is possible at next week. My experience about Rebellion was only a single player because what do I get if I have only 2 factions to choose when playing online? Or these Loyalist / Rebels with the same ships? Okay, it is still in Beta, but I got the idea what it will be.

I already wrote " I loved Sins Trinity" and I played it happily ever after. I waited Rebellion when I first saw screenshots and I hoped that it would bring a totally same experience. No, it didnt.  I told everyone that this game with the new content will be the best game so far in this genre and it will be so good for online gaming. Oh.. It was the same game I already had!!! So the Endless Space came at the right time to fullfill the needs and my friends has also agreed with me, when Rebellion left me cold and disappointed.

1 new capital ship, 1 Titan, 1 Corvette, 1 new building, 8 new Techs, 1 new planet type.  Whoa! It is a new game! This is an example of a greatest imagination ever heard of! Lets put 3 new races with the same ships what the existing races had. A lot of new content? No.

29,99e is much even though I got it for 18,99e. So this is not because of the money, Rebellion is more likely a patch for an old game! And I paid for it...

Save your money, skip this one. 

People keep making the same mistake over, and over again. Over expectation. Rebellion is an Expansion. Not a new game. It is adding on to what is already there. Not making something new from scratch. The Dev's made no big secret of this. They have been pretty straight forward with what they did with Rebellion. Take it for what it is. IMO they did an excellent job adding to the old iron engine. The graphic updates alone i am amazed they pulled off without a costly total re-write of the engine.

Some may say "meh" to the titans, new factions, new ships, and tech's. However they DO change the strategy of the game.

You just have to remember Rebellion is just an expansion. A stand alone expansion. IMO a good one.

The titans needed more than the trinity 3 standard weapon slots. So they upped the limit to 5. All ships are effected by it. This is confirmed.

Well I certainally can't say if it's going to be like in Starwars or Odyssey 5 since the Vasari haven't even been released, what I really know is that usable planets will become unusable and that is still a pretty good diference from the previous Sins games.

All expansions are Glorified Mods.

For me personally this expansion has changed the way the game is played. It used to be mass LRFs/bombers with a supporting capital ship or two. Try that now with a Titan. Titans will nom nom LRFs or any other frigate and come back for more and will hold against bombers long enough for supporting frigates to do their jobs. Capital ships are now viable because you need them to help vs Titans. Corvettes are what LFs were suppose to be and do a good job of harassment. Something Sins has never had.

The factions research differences are interesting as well. Going against Loyalist TEC? That is a tough nut to crack thanks to their research. Rebel TEC? Their research puts their weapons on par with vanilla Advent plus their heavy armor and strong hulls means unleash the dogs of war. Rebel Advent? Feel free to suicide your ships because with research they may come back. Loyalist Advent? With research cultural strategy becomes viable. Rebel Vasari? With research they learn to work and play well with others and become stronger for it. Titan Vasari? Try fighting against someone that practices a scorched policy like they can with research.

Capital ships are improved and more interesting. With now four levels (two for ultimates) for abilities you can't play the same strategy as before. Battleships are more tanky, support caps do their jobs better, carriers caps, well don't leave home without one.

Is it worth the $29.99 I payed out? Yes I think it is. $39.99, though, is no for those of us that already have everything but that is why the devs gave us a discount. They understand that. For those just coming in (aka the Steam only players) or for those that bought the original game but didn't stay for the expansions I feel they are getting their moneys worth.

fixed

Also I still can't believe there are people saying these types of things about an unfinished product...........

Nobody forced you to buy this. If you want to play mods with vaguely similar but far less smoothly implemented features added, go ahead. This x-pack also allows modders to implement their own titans and corvettes in a much better way. Of course there are problems, its a BETA. A lot of stuff already has been changed for the better, DM and the Domina are improved to work better among other things. I think it is worth the price because all the new features are greater than the sum of its parts.

There are game companies out there that might release 1 patch if the customers are lucky, and then abandon it within a month. IC has been supporting this game since 2008. I'm glad that they have been so supportive for so long.

Lag issues are not the fault of the game, but of the PC that runs it. The AI is fine and higher difficulty settings are supposed to cheat, it isn't a problem. If you struggle then use an easier setting or improve. Seriously, who cares if this is the last game you buy from Stardock? What a stupid little 'threat'.

Actually the first two expansions were "Micro" expansions that only cost ten dollars each. So for people who were with Sins from the beginning they were probably a better deal.

I think some people complain too much.

Let´s see one of the best RTS expansions i´ve played... Warcraft 3 The Frozen Throne:

-2 new units, 1 new hero and some new upgrades per faction.

-8 neutral heroes to choose from a tavern.

-New Campaign.

-Some editor enhacements

-New music, sounds, etc...

Oh, it seems its not a lot, but i´ve enjoyed that exp too much i liked new heroes and stuff. But i think Rebellion it´s better, why?

-Factions splitted. If u gave me one expansion which splits the 4 races from warcraft with their differences... PARTY TIME!!! It´s not Stardock being lazy because "splitting factions with unique upgrades is a cheap way to show new content", no no and no! actually, i think new upgrades are really innovative ( TEC Loyalists gets more money when fighting in his own planet? cool, Advent Loyalist has greater cultural influence and gains bonus damage when conquering/losing a planet? allright!! TEC rebels can hire pirates and gains more credits sieging planets?? OMG).

I mean! it may seem "few" changes, but they are outstanding strategy-wise (Frozen throne had new upgrades like... more splash damage for mortars or troll headhunters having a berserker ability for attacking much faster... wooho?)

-M*therf*king titans and dirty corvettes. Weeeell i dont use titans so much if u ask me, i prefer having some good leveled capital ships, but we already know a Titan´s job its "to end this fight real quickly", which is good if u ask for some fast multiplayer matches, and a bunch of Corvettes could debuff some serious ships very much.

It´s just so unique having a capital-world titan like the Vasari one or those from TEC which are defense-ofense oriented. It´s just cool. It´s not like adding just new heroes in wc3.

Well i dont have much enough to say! I would point the moddability of the game and that stuff but im not informed very well. I would like to play more multiplayer matches though . I really like when you see a 6 player match and it looks like a board game with all those colors and culture lines between planets! ^^